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TACD posted:“stop eating red meat or you’ll have a heart attack” I loving hope it does for me before the world goes to utter poo poo.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:53
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Rime posted:Not gangbuster news, but Germany is going ahead with leveling one of their few old-growth forests to build the largest Lignite mine in Europe. Lignite is one of the dirtiest forms of coal out there. It's extremely important to understand why this happened. Germany is the furthest thing from a country that disregards the environment. They have one of the most comprehensive plans to replace traditional energy sources with renewables, and it's not working. And the reason it's not working is obvious: one of the traditional energy sources they're phasing out is nuclear, which is as low-carbon as renewables. Germany has invested >$800 billion in renewables and found the result is zero benefit, and because of how renewables work, there's no end in sight. I wouldn't be surprised if their emissions rise in years to come. The time to do nuclear was yesterday. We're probably past the point of now return. But there's still no awareness of this, and governments probably won't be shifting to a realistic strategy until we're committed to 3C warming or more.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:05
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Thug Lessons posted:It's extremely important to understand why this happened. Germany is the furthest thing from a country that disregards the environment. They have one of the most comprehensive plans to replace traditional energy sources with renewables, and it's not working. And the reason it's not working is obvious: one of the traditional energy sources they're phasing out is nuclear, which is as low-carbon as renewables. Germany has invested >$800 billion in renewables and found the result is zero benefit, and because of how renewables work, there's no end in sight. I wouldn't be surprised if their emissions rise in years to come. Mostly  . I'd add that in Germany (and probably to some extent across Europe and North America), the idea that protecting the environment will require making people less, rather than more, separated from natural habitats and processes is very widespread when what we should be doing is getting the gently caress out so we don't break everything under the ecological footprint of soon-to-be 10 billion people. This makes renewable power in everyone's backyard seem more desirable, while nuclear reactors are obviously unnatural and evil. The ideal for Germany promoted by conservationists here isn't most people living a low CO2/land use lifestyle in a city consuming food from limited areas filled with intensive farms and greenhouses growing high yield crops (including GMOs where they're helpful) powered by all low-CO2 energy sources (including nuclear to the extent it's needed). It's as many people as possible living an idealised Eastern European rural life on an inefficient farm in a low-density village with high labour use, high land use and all-organic methods.
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Nov 30, 2017 01:17
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Thug Lessons posted:The time to do nuclear was yesterday. We're probably past the point of now return. But there's still no awareness of this, and governments probably won't be shifting to a realistic strategy until we're committed to 3C warming or more.
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Nov 30, 2017 03:03
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So when did the switch of opinion from nuclear reactors to full out pro-coal happen? (Gradual change in policy or was it just an overnight, Fukushima style change?) (Or is this similar to say California where it was once acceptable cutting edge tech, is now regarded as the risks don't outweigh the rewards?) Due to decades of "Nukes are bad maannnn". Senor P. fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 03:44
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Senor P. posted:So when did the switch of opinion from nuclear reactors to full out pro-coal happen? California is mainly shutting down their nuclear power plants because of cost concerns; damage of expensive replacement parts (SONGS) or costs of meeting newer rules banning once-through cooling (Diablo Canyon).
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Nov 30, 2017 03:55
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Trabisnikof posted:California is mainly shutting down their nuclear power plants because of cost concerns; damage of expensive replacement parts (SONGS) or costs of meeting newer rules banning once-through cooling (Diablo Canyon). Yes... but cost concerns from a utility perspective (we're not making enough money) vs. cost concerns from the end user are two different things. Closing both works in the utility's favor. (Fewer people to pay, fewer benefits to pay, can pull money from the de-commissioning fund, can jack up rates.) It is not in the favor of the consumer. Replacing the steam generators again or building a new cooling tower might be anywhere to 500-700 million dollars per plant, the last I heard about this. The cost of a natural gas power plant would be around 1 billion for 1000 MW each (SONGS was 2 units and so is Diablo Canyon, so that is about 4 billion.) Not including costs for the gas, or for permitting. Strikes me as one of the good reasons utilities should be either government owned or not for profit entities. Senor P. fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Nov 30, 2017 |
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Nov 30, 2017 04:04
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i have learnt that the reforestation industry in australia is a total circus and nobody knows what they're doing i'm reforesting a coastal swamp (i.e., more inundated every day and soon to be completely underwater, so, like, we may need to think on our feet a bit here?) and they're choosing species to plant based off a book about the region that was written in 1860
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Nov 30, 2017 04:11
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noyes posted:australia is a total circus and nobody knows what they're doing
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Nov 30, 2017 04:12
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also the major issue with reforestation around here is that everyone uses plastic sleeves to protect the saplings from marauding wallabies, except most of the time (not my bosses, they're diligent, but just about everyone else) they don't bother picking up the plastic after the saplings have grown to a safe size. so the plastic just stays there. as the tree gets bigger, the plastic sheath gets stretched out by its expanding trunk until it finally splits in half. it's non-biodegradable, so what happens to it then? it washes from the wetland straight into the loving ocean and gets swallowed by a sea turtle is what happens to it then
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Nov 30, 2017 04:14
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aussie forests are infested with drop bears so let's just nuke all of that
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Nov 30, 2017 04:17
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and they keep cutting down the mangroves because they're encroaching on the saltmarsh, but the only reason they're encroaching on the saltmarsh is because big parts of the saltmarsh are now underwater and nothing can grow there but mangroves. that is not the mangroves' fault. the sea is rising. there is more water everywhere. the solution to rising sea levels is not to cut all the mangroves down holy poo poo
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Nov 30, 2017 04:17
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syscall girl posted:aussie forests are infested with drop bears so let's just nuke all of that
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Nov 30, 2017 04:18
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noyes posted:drop bears are actually sweet gentle creatures if you don't provoke them they are and tazzie devils are priceless it's the kind of nature you don't gently caress with or you will contract some weird disease
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Nov 30, 2017 04:19
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i distrust devils because they sometimes eat their own young, but they are extremely adorable when their faces aren't falling off
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Nov 30, 2017 04:20
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incidentally, bandicoots eat their own young too
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Nov 30, 2017 04:24
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noyes posted:i distrust devils because they sometimes eat their own young, but they are extremely adorable when their faces aren't falling off well, i like them because they are the last tazzy predators still alive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine dead dead dead the black rhino will be extinct in our lifetime siberian tigers are close all of the cool animals are gonna be dead soon 
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Nov 30, 2017 04:32
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I guess we could learn to think of jellyfish, rats and cockroaches as cool, then everything will be fine!
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Nov 30, 2017 06:57
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Thug Lessons posted:It's extremely important to understand why this happened. Germany is the furthest thing from a country that disregards the environment. They have one of the most comprehensive plans to replace traditional energy sources with renewables, and it's not working. And the reason it's not working is obvious: one of the traditional energy sources they're phasing out is nuclear, which is as low-carbon as renewables. Germany has invested >$800 billion in renewables and found the result is zero benefit, and because of how renewables work, there's no end in sight. I wouldn't be surprised if their emissions rise in years to come. This inconsistency exists because Merkel is a spineless populist. Germany needs enormous amount of electricity for its factories and phasing out Nuclear just because it was unpopular among the 'oh my god look at Fukushima' crowd was never a realistic alternative and I could have told you that back when the decision was taken. It is as stupid now as it was back then. It's true that Germans want a lot on paper but I swear you guys are one of the dumbest electorates in the European Union. You can get suckered into any narrative, no matter how dubious, and once it's stuck you never change your mind because of course one of the cornerstones of your culture is being loving stubborn. There's never any thought about the actual long-term consequences of policy decisions whether we are talking environment, foreign politics, the euro-crisis management or the stunning amounts of sabotaging going on in the EU to protect your precious automotive industry from ever having to innovate past the combustion engine.
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Nov 30, 2017 07:26
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MiddleOne posted:This inconsistency exists because Merkel is a spineless populist. Germany needs enormous amount of electricity for its factories and phasing out Nuclear just because it was unpopular among the 'oh my god look at Fukushima' crowd was never a realistic alternative and I could have told you that back when the decision was taken. It is as stupid now as it was back then. It's true that Germans want a lot on paper but I swear you guys are one of the dumbest electorates in the European Union. You can get suckered into any narrative, no matter how dubious, and once it's stuck you never change your mind because of course one of the cornerstones of your culture is being loving stubborn.
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Nov 30, 2017 18:10
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MiddleOne posted:This inconsistency exists because Merkel is a spineless populist. Germany needs enormous amount of electricity for its factories and phasing out Nuclear just because it was unpopular among the 'oh my god look at Fukushima' crowd was never a realistic alternative and I could have told you that back when the decision was taken. It is as stupid now as it was back then. It's true that Germans want a lot on paper but I swear you guys are one of the dumbest electorates in the European Union. You can get suckered into any narrative, no matter how dubious, and once it's stuck you never change your mind because of course one of the cornerstones of your culture is being loving stubborn. I am far from being pro-nuke as probably anyone (know people who worked on the cluster-gently caress SONGS plant, and yes I have a graduate degree in Physics) but the smart thing would have been to keep the nuke plants running until all the coal plants were shut down.
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Dec 1, 2017 01:22
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In addition to climate change, wouldn't the automation of every other job in a few decades lead to societal collapse because the majority can no longer work?
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Dec 1, 2017 01:40
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It's one of the many reasons capitalism is going cause social upheaval and suffering. We're just taking bets on which. Probably gonna be some kind of one two punch kinda thing
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Dec 1, 2017 01:47
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VideoGameVet posted:I am far from being pro-nuke as probably anyone (know people who worked on the cluster-gently caress SONGS plant, and yes I have a graduate degree in Physics) but the smart thing would have been to keep the nuke plants running until all the coal plants were shut down. In the case of Germany, the use of renewables actually did expand considerably, it was just no way fast enough to meet the sudden deadlines that were imposed. The ultimate solution was a more reasonable timetable.
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Dec 1, 2017 12:17
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Ardennes posted:In the case of Germany, the use of renewables actually did expand considerably, it was just no way fast enough to meet the sudden deadlines that were imposed. The ultimate solution was a more reasonable timetable. Step 1 kill coal. Step 2 now you can muddle through (but don't replace nuke with natural gas/biomass).
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Dec 1, 2017 19:51
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IMHO one of the main problems with renewable energy generation isn't the technology itself but that many people think it's currently able to meet our power needs. Consequently they feel comfortable supporting rapid construction of renewable energy capacity to mitigate climate change while opposing the construction of additional nuclear power capacity (if not calling for plants to close). It seems like this is what happened in Germany, and even many mainstream progressive figures like Bernie Sanders hold the same view. In 40 years we certainly might have a continent spanning electrical grid with sufficient storage capacity to allow fully renewable power generation, but that's not the case currently and in practice any reduction in nuclear capacity is largely going to be replaced by natural gas. Essentially I'm saying that nuclear power opponents use the promise of renewable energy to argue for reduction of nuclear capacity, and if successful end up raising carbon emissions at a time we need drastic cuts. syscall girl posted:siberian tigers are close Unrelated but it always amazes me how few in number remain of many of these iconic species. There are ~500 wild siberian tigers in the world. My apartment building has a larger population.
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Dec 1, 2017 20:20
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Nocturtle posted:IMHO one of the main problems with renewable energy generation isn't the technology itself but that many people think it's currently able to meet our power needs. Consequently they feel comfortable supporting rapid construction of renewable energy capacity to mitigate climate change while opposing the construction of additional nuclear power capacity (if not calling for plants to close). It seems like this is what happened in Germany, and even many mainstream progressive figures like Bernie Sanders hold the same view. In 40 years we certainly might have a continent spanning electrical grid with sufficient storage capacity to allow fully renewable power generation, but that's not the case currently and in practice any reduction in nuclear capacity is largely going to be replaced by natural gas. Must be really dangerous to go outside for you then.
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Dec 1, 2017 20:36
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so germany found that renewables did not reduce carbon footprint so they are going back to coal plants?
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Dec 1, 2017 22:10
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dbukalski posted:so germany found that renewables did not reduce carbon footprint so they are going back to coal plants? Mostly it's that we're starting to run into diminishing returns where just adding some more rooftop solar panels or wind turbines can't easily replace further baseload generation without also adding capital intensive NIMBY bait like more storage and transmission lines. Before that, we wasted the easy initial renewables rollout on replacing nuclear with renewables instead of replacing coal with renewables. Now, it's rather hard to close coal plants.
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Dec 1, 2017 23:24
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dbukalski posted:so germany found that renewables did not reduce carbon footprint so they are going back to coal plants? Solar and wind both carry challenges with them that other power sources do not when put to scale and so far Germany's response to those challenges has been definitive *faaaaaaaaart*
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Dec 3, 2017 21:38
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/2/oil-drilling-anwr-moves-ahead-part-senate-tax-bill/ Drill baby drill
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Dec 3, 2017 23:36
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Polio Vax Scene posted:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/2/oil-drilling-anwr-moves-ahead-part-senate-tax-bill/ Lots of commenters are saying drilling in the ANWR is not cost-effective anyways, since shale is much cheaper and is located close to many major cities in the lower 48. So... we'll see what happens? 
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Dec 4, 2017 00:58
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I gotta say, if Avshalom could get quarantined to only talking about reforestation and ecological replenishment, I'd support it. I mean, I also support her other works, but I do understand Lowtax's reasons to permaban people who explicitly advocate political assassinations and feel the above is a reasonable middle ground.
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Dec 4, 2017 01:23
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enraged_camel posted:Lots of commenters are saying drilling in the ANWR is not cost-effective anyways, since shale is much cheaper and is located close to many major cities in the lower 48. So... we'll see what happens?
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Dec 4, 2017 01:33
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StabbinHobo posted:that sounds super unlikely on its face, is there any meaningful supporting analysis? shipping oil is like the most solved thing in the entire global financial system. It's more that cheaper oil is already available closer to refineries. Lots of wells in the lower 48 offline due to low price.
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Dec 4, 2017 02:03
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May site wells just to make it hard for any future government to make it illegal again, though.
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Dec 4, 2017 02:43
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edit nvm
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Dec 4, 2017 03:48
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Tree Bucket posted:I guess we could learn to think of jellyfish, rats and cockroaches as cool, then everything will be fine!  "stick nest rat"  "brush-tailed rabbit rat"  "common rock rat" and everyone wrings their hands and wonders why the public doesn't seem interested in conserving them. i know why the public aren't interested! it's because you're calling them all rats! nobody likes rats! don't even get me started on hare-wallabies and rat-kangaroos and so on, europeans are completely hopeless - of course all these animals have beautiful indigenous names that the scientists would love to use, believe me, it's just that we can't use indigenous names, they're too... indigenous
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Dec 4, 2017 03:55
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don't even get me started on birds, i almost got attacked by a twitcher the other day for implying that a quail-thrush is anything like either a quail or a thrush (it is neither) scientists are the bane of my life
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Dec 4, 2017 03:57
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toc stop threatening to kill DJT so you don't get banned anymore, I love you.
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Dec 4, 2017 04:05
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