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Junpei Hyde posted:hmmmmm Yeah, there's also Satoshi Kon.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:39
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Even if we're determining a movie simply by tenchinal and aesthetic criteria though, I still feel that there is some degree of subjectivity. Can I say that Alice Through the Looking Glass (2016) is objectively good because I think it fulfills that criteria? But plenty of people could argue against the use of green screen or the film's color palette and at that point we're back to personal preference. This reminds me of a video someone posted in one of the threads, (possibly this one) where it was a video critiquing the cinematography of the car chase from The Dark Knight, saying that it breaks the rules of editing and cinematography. Plenty of people made what I think to be a perfectly valid argument that that "rule breaking" didn't really have a negative impact of their viewing experience of that scene. Another person posted Joseph Kahn's rebuttal to that video, where Kahn says the criteria the original video is using to make his argument is arbitrary and doesn't work in the application of that scene. So even if we are able to break down evaluating films through a specific set of criteria, there is still the question of why that specific set is the one being used and who decides the validity of that.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:43
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Moatman posted:The script is part of the movie, too Yeah, there were genuine problems with the writing. Like how Pa Kent was saying the exact opposite thing pretty much every time we flashed back to him, to the point where I had no goddamned idea what they were trying to do with him as a character.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:44
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I Before E posted:Yeah, there's also Satoshi Kon. Satoshi Kon is great most of the time. Perfect Blue is a bit of a misstep in its plot, but its themes are dead on in their criticism of pop culture exploitation. And when he's given something like Magnetic Rose, the results are amazing.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:56
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Conal Cochran posted:So even if we are able to break down evaluating films through a specific set of criteria, there is still the question of why that specific set is the one being used and who decides the validity of that. There are semi-objective aesthetic standards that have been developed over the past century or so that are used because they help tell the story or make actions clearer or whatever. Those standards can be broken, but only with a good reason, because otherwise you're just being sloppy. So I guess really the big divider is the amount of care. Like you can still make a bad movie if you care about it (see: The Room), but if you have both decent technical ability/knowledge and act with care then I'd say 80 or 90 percent of the time you'll make a good movie, even if it isn't necessarily likable.
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Dec 4, 2017 18:56
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MonsieurChoc posted:My own take on it is the craftsmanship. Movies are made of a lot of different parts, all of which can be executed very well or very badly. This is why Man of Steel, a movie with excellent visuals and editing, is a good movie I don't like, while say Yor Hunter from the Future is a terrible movie I like. this is also how people try to argue that Slipknot is a good band but that also doesn't make it true
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Dec 4, 2017 19:30
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Slipknot is a good band for making dumb as hell mashups.
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Dec 4, 2017 19:38
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MonsieurChoc posted:My own take on it is the craftsmanship. Movies are made of a lot of different parts, all of which can be executed very well or very badly. This is why Man of Steel, a movie with excellent visuals and editing, is a good movie I don't like, while say Yor Hunter from the Future is a terrible movie I like. Isn't this just ignoring the parts you don't like to justify calling it good. I mean you can do that I guess but like why spent so much energy justifying an opinion you don't hold
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Dec 4, 2017 19:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVy1ciP_ik AUTOZAM
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Dec 4, 2017 19:51
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Finally got around to watching the uncanny valley vid linked a while back. If there is one piece of advice I wish I could give youtubers, it's to slow the gently caress down. So many amateurs falling into the trap of "Ihavetospeakreallyfastsonobodygetsboredorwhatever." You gotta go slow and enunciate, guys, or else nobody's gonna understand the words you're saying! Otherwise I'm really loving it.
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Dec 4, 2017 20:22
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Fair enough. Jojo's is bad too. Someone hold me back
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Dec 4, 2017 20:26
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this is legit the next car i am going to purchase because i am a crazy person
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Dec 4, 2017 21:00
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Lindsay Ellis discusses IT, Stranger Things, Nostalgia, and New Kids on the Block
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Dec 4, 2017 21:06
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financially racist posted:this is legit the next car i am going to purchase because i am a crazy person hope you're 5' 5" 
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Dec 4, 2017 21:06
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You could say that objectivity is rooted in subjectivity. You can say, "My favorite is Game #2 in the series, but objectively I think that Game #3 in the series does everything better." If not, then just concern yourself with liking the things you like, and try not to worry so much about what other people think.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:11
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Alaois posted:hope you're 5' 5" This is why I both love and hate small cars. I love the handling, the fuel efficiency, and the overall look of them. But I'm also like 6'3" and wear big ol' steel toed boots, plus not exactly the thinnest guy in the world, so sitting in one tends to be a painful experience where my head pokes through the sunroof.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:13
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Augus posted:Someone hold me back Will you settle for "Jojos is fine but theres other anime I like better"
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Dec 4, 2017 21:19
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CelticPredator posted:I'm basically their enemy or nuisance at this point and it's really pointless and rarely are you ever able to see eye to eye with them there. I'm tempted to point to "David Ayer agrees with me" in response to the "no, Squad's editing is Fine Actually" but really I should just close the tab and never go back.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:27
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Close the tab and never go back.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:31
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FoldableHuman posted:You had to say this out loud, so naturally I had to go see, and naturally I had to post. Hahaha oh my god I'm so sorry. I was just so astounded when the response to me posting one of your videos to the "why does not ever have concrete critiques of Sucide Squads editing" was posters coming out of the woodwork to post oddly affectionate statements about how much they despise everything about you.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:34
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I wonder what the overlap is between gamergaters and Snyder defenders. Identity-founded-on-consumption seems like at least s weak link there.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:39
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Junpei Hyde posted:Will you settle for "Jojos is fine but theres other anime I like better" ...no
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Dec 4, 2017 21:41
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Im sorry but its true
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Dec 4, 2017 21:43
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business hammocks posted:Are there Snyder fans there? There are nazis in GBS; it wouldn’t surprise me if we had an infestation of Snyder fans. business hammocks posted:I wonder what the overlap is between gamergaters and Snyder defenders. Identity-founded-on-consumption seems like at least s weak link there. you seem very concerned.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:47
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SleepCousinDeath posted:you seem very concerned. There is something very—I don’t know—Wagnerian about Snyder’s aesthetic. Not that I think he wants it there as his stated politics seem opposed to it, but I can’t deny it’s there.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:52
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SleepCousinDeath posted:you seem very concerned. Gamergate is everywhere. Its inside our minds, but outside our basements.
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Dec 4, 2017 21:57
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Archer666 posted:Gamergate is everywhere. Its inside our minds, but outside our basements. One of the last spasms of coordinated activity from that grumbling hive was to go after Dan for pointing out that 8chan was full of child pornography. Every long once and a while one of them will turn up here and criticize him for it.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:02
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The Horror Thread in CineD is good. But trying to engage in honest or good faith terms about any Snyder film is an awful experience; like falling off a building and getting your eyelid caught on a loose nail on the way down awful. A tornado of bad faith arguing. I think a lot of people in there have somewhat taken in those films as part of their core identity, so any attack on it is read as an attack on them and so they get very angry, and very upset, very quickly. Any attempt to engage in a fun, good faith manner is met with furious insults and dismissals. Truth is, we are all stuck, alone, in an uncaring universe. And they would enjoy life more if they just understand that many people just don't like those films for a variety of fair or sensible reasons, but it doesn't take away their enjoyment and appreciation of it. It's all gonna be just fine.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:13
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I was more annoyed with the suggestion that there's some correlation between people who like some dudes movies and people who support nazis and gamergate, even though I don't think that's what business hammocks was actually trying to say. I'm not a nazi or a gamergater, and I don't think Snyder is either. I also don't have any issues with this Dan guy or his videos.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:26
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SleepCousinDeath posted:I was more annoyed with the suggestion that there's some correlation between people who like some dudes movies and people who support nazis and gamergate, even though I don't think that's what business hammocks was actually trying to say. The two are unrelated, except that it would explain why there are nerds with a reflexive deep hatred of Dan Olson. Also the GBS nazis are directly descended from gamergate like it was their Spanish Civil War.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:33
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Prelude to the Great Patriotic Meme War
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Dec 4, 2017 22:37
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I think it's just all the same source of "My identity is the entertainment I consume." Sometimes that becomes gators, sometimes it becomes tumblrites who claim that their slashfics are Very Progressive, generally it's just "I cannot deal with the idea that I like a flawed thing," with a dash of "If you criticize the things I like it is an attack on me and therefore you are my enemy." Being able to like something and also accept its flaws (and that it's not universally likeable) is really freeing because then you spend less time getting mad about people not sharing your taste and more time enjoying your thing.
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Dec 4, 2017 22:50
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Can someone clarify "my identity is what I consume"? Because like, while I agree many people take it to unhealthy levels such that critique of a work is a critique of them, I also don't think it's necessarily wrong? Like there are a few films and shows that are really personal to me and probably influenced my outlook on things more than I care to admit. While I've of course questioned those outlooks, and recognize the flaws in those works, they're still part of my identity in a way that when I have a partner or very close friend I want to show them those because even if they hate the work, it feels like showing them part of me and who I am. I'm not sure how distinct that is from people who are really into a brand or series or whatever, but I feel like some degrees of having works as part of you is understandable.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:04
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Was just about to come and post this. It's some good stuff.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:04
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What do we call it when hatred of Snyder is used for authenticity in either the nerd/geek circles or working class? Or hell as we just recently saw, the lack of hatred of Snyder means you must be a reactionary menace?
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Dec 4, 2017 23:09
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Linear Zoetrope posted:Can someone clarify "my identity is what I consume"? Because like, while I agree many people take it to unhealthy levels such that critique of a work is a critique of them, I also don't think it's necessarily wrong? Like there are a few films and shows that are really personal to me and probably influenced my outlook on things more than I care to admit. While I've of course questioned those outlooks, and recognize the flaws in those works, they're still part of my identity in a way that when I have a partner or very close friend I want to show them those because even if they hate the work, it feels like showing them part of me and who I am. I'm not sure how distinct that is from people who are really into a brand or series or whatever, but I feel like some degrees of having works as part of you is understandable. Well, we are all emotional beings, with histories, thoughts and ideas. There's nothing wrong with taking a piece of media or art and having a profound and meaningful reaction. The catharsis we can get from art is important and good, and yes, it can be painful if you share with someone something that held great meaning for you and they dismiss it for whatever reason. But what's important, and what people need to realize, is that the person criticizing the thing you like does not know that the art in question has such personal value. To them, they're just saying they didn't like some movie, but to the person who is hurt and getting angry it feels like they are deliberately trying to make them feel foolish for being so moved by a "bad" film. So, what I would say, is that it's good to internalize this stuff while watching, especially if it helps you, that's what art is for. But, when it comes to discussing with others - especially strangers on the internet - to take a more detached viewpoint, because you cannot expect people to align with your own personal psychology in such specific terms, it only leads to upset.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:30
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Linear Zoetrope posted:Can someone clarify "my identity is what I consume"? Because like, while I agree many people take it to unhealthy levels such that critique of a work is a critique of them, I also don't think it's necessarily wrong? Like there are a few films and shows that are really personal to me and probably influenced my outlook on things more than I care to admit. While I've of course questioned those outlooks, and recognize the flaws in those works, they're still part of my identity in a way that when I have a partner or very close friend I want to show them those because even if they hate the work, it feels like showing them part of me and who I am. I'm not sure how distinct that is from people who are really into a brand or series or whatever, but I feel like some degrees of having works as part of you is understandable. I can be influenced by things I consume without feeling like it is who I am. Like you said, it's part of you, but not more than that. Like I'm more into stuff like Silent Hill than I'd like to admit, but I have an identity outside of that. It doesn't consume my entire experience, I don't feel like I need to broadcast my love of it or buy every single thing that has to do with it, and I don't use it to define myself as a person. I can talk about it forever with people that like it, but I can also talk about a bunch of other things and have other experiences. I think it's the same general thing as the problem we were talking about earlier with having only one social outlet: the more you wrap yourself up into One Thing-- be that geeknerd stuff, sports, dating, whatever-- the more miserable you'll make yourself, because you don't have anywhere to turn when things get temporarily lovely. It's probably hard for someone without that particular quirk to grasp, because it's outside of the average healthy experience.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:32
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You guys are making political debates about people who like or dislike a movie director Jesus christ. Not everything is a murder board with a bunch of pictures and topics with strings linking everything in this big web of political conspiracies.
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Dec 4, 2017 23:35
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They are talking about two unrelated things dude lol
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Dec 4, 2017 23:37
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Dude I just glaze my eyes when I see 50+ responses and my glazing picks up "Zack Snyder" and "Gamergate" and it all turns into an amorphous blob of "You like/don't like this so you must be this kind of person which goes against my political beliefs here is 5 paragraphs blah blahing about it" So huh, Doug is doing paid sponsorship now?
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Dec 4, 2017 23:40
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