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Uroboros posted:Lately I have been cataloging things that I take issue with in 8th. It is worth noting that while I am over the 8th hype train, and have been more critical I still love the poo poo out of this game. Won’t someone think of the poor static gunline Eldar players? I’m so glad initiative went. Slogging my army across the map, getting wrecked in overwatch and then not even necessarily getting to fight first? That sucked. There’s plenty of ways to mitigate - flamers will soften most units up, there’s a stratagem that lets you go next even if you didn’t charge, some units still get to always strike first, you can fall back if you do survive and let the rest of your army obliterate them. 7th sucked so badly for horde close combat armies. I’m glad people fear getting charged now.
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Dec 5, 2017 09:15
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And even then you can spend the 2 CP to interrupt. I do wish charging into terrain came with some sort of small penalty, though.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:05
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There is a penalty for charging through terrain in the rules RIGHT NOW and no one ever seems to remember.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:13
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OhDearGodNo posted:Why can’t I ever let something just *be* as it is without needing to convert it? Floppychop posted:I dunno. I kind of want to steal the idea to make an Ork buggy  About 6 years ago I was on a spree of looting ebay rescues for cheap ork vehicles.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:28
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will blow your mind.
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I've heard that smite is going to be getting a nerf soon. Anyone any idea how they're going to do that before I fork out to get some Zoranthropes/Neurothropes/Venomthropes?
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Dec 5, 2017 11:36
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Entropy238 posted:I've heard that smite is going to be getting a nerf soon. Anyone any idea how they're going to do that before I fork out to get some Zoranthropes/Neurothropes/Venomthropes? It's not. The nerf was rumoured to be included in Chapter Approved that just came out at the weekend, but was supposedly dropped at the last minute. Instead they amended the point costs for the most commonly abused smite-span platforms.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:44
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Entropy238 posted:I've heard that smite is going to be getting a nerf soon. Anyone any idea how they're going to do that before I fork out to get some Zoranthropes/Neurothropes/Venomthropes? It was rumoured for Chapter Approved but apparently hasn't happened.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:44
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Woo thanks.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:47
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To be honest I'm glad. Smite spam needs a fixing but the rumored idea sounded awful. 3 smites per turn doesnt scale well at high levels.
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Dec 5, 2017 11:48
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Strobe posted:Keyword Infantry. Oops, my brain pasted CHARACTER right over that.
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Dec 5, 2017 12:29
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Big bois  RagnarokAngel posted:To be honest I'm glad. Smite spam needs a fixing but the rumored idea sounded awful. 3 smites per turn doesnt scale well at high levels. Gotta be honest I don't give a poo poo about matched play scaling. It should be 100% targeted at the 1500-2500pt range. Higher or lower is for narrative/open play or sensible house rules.
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Dec 5, 2017 12:30
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Corrode posted:There is a penalty for charging through terrain in the rules RIGHT NOW and no one ever seems to remember. As noted, there are rules for woods, obstacles, craters and battlescapes that all affect charges. It seems no one actually reads that section of the rules (given reactions from people I play with when i explain) and then complain that there are no terrain rules.
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Dec 5, 2017 13:56
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bonds0097 posted:It seems no one actually reads that section of the rules (given reactions from people I play with when i explain) and then complain that there are no terrain rules. 
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Dec 5, 2017 14:09
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WhiteOutMouse posted:
It's nice to see that Lamenter has found some friends. Has there been any word on them yet or are they presumed a completely primaris force now? edit: vvvv Woof, that's a hell of a blow. Too bad, I always liked them. If I ever played marines and was ever good at painting hearts and checker boards onto shoulder pads and wasn't building a white scars army, would have totally gone Lamenters. Cainer fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 14:23
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Cainer posted:It's nice to see that Lamenter has found some friends. Has there been any word on them yet or are they presumed a completely primaris force now? The only surviving regular Lamenter is a Deathwatch dreadnought.
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Dec 5, 2017 14:25
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bonds0097 posted:As noted, there are rules for woods, obstacles, craters and battlescapes that all affect charges. It seems no one actually reads that section of the rules (given reactions from people I play with when i explain) and then complain that there are no terrain rules. Yeah I've noticed this too. That penalty to charge distances is a real thing and it can have a major impact Corrode posted:
Good lookin bois Any solution to Smite spam should scale--in both directions. The 3 per turn isn't a particularly elegant solution
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Dec 5, 2017 15:04
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TheChirurgeon posted:
Giving easily-spammed psykers appropriate point costs seems pretty scalable to me. That, or consistently give cheap psykers rules like the Warlock's Destructor / Astropath's Telepathic Assault.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:21
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Didn't most of the problem spammy units get nerfed in chapter approved? I know Malefic Lords and Primaris Psykers are suppopsed to be more expensive. I've been listening to the Forge the Narrative podcast because my usual stuff has been really slow to update the past month or so. They're doing a really solid codex review for the Blood Angels and I have to say, I've never been so excited to run dreadnoughts. They're all getting cheaper and the blood talons now give rerolls to both hits and wounds, dealing 3 damage at ap-2.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:25
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TheChirurgeon posted:
Like I said - why? Are you really playing 4000pt games strictly applying the matched play rules? If so, why? (Yes I appreciate that points are themselves a matched thing - but I'm old and idk how else to say 'a big game') E: PPs are 48 instead of 40 now. Malefic Lords sre like 1.5x the cost, lol FW rules Living Image fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 15:27
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Corrode posted:Like I said - why? Are you really playing 4000pt games strictly applying the matched play rules? If so, why? (Yes I appreciate that points are themselves a matched thing - but I'm old and idk how else to say 'a big game') I play lots of 1000-pt games and the occasional 2,500, or 2v2 3k game. But to that point, if I did play 4,000 point games--and again, the most likely scenario for that is a 2v2 with 2k points per player--we'd strictly apply the matched play rules. Though I'm not sure why you wouldn't prefer a scalable solution? There's literally no downside to having a solution that scales with the points value of the game. I agree with xthothez in that points adjustments for psykers was probably the best solution, though I have no idea how well it will work.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:34
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Sure, I'd prefer it be scalable. But I'd prefer a solution that works to one that's perfect, whereas people seem to keep saying 'it should be scalable' without offering an actual suggestion of what that solution looks like.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:44
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I actually really liked the idea someone had where each time you attempt to cast smite gives a stacking -1 penalty to the success of the next attempt to cast. The first one has no penalty, the second is at -1, the third at -2 and so on.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:47
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Pendent posted:I actually really liked the idea someone had where each time you attempt to cast smite gives a stacking -1 penalty to the success of the next attempt to cast. The first one has no penalty, the second is at -1, the third at -2 and so on. But...but... someone please think of the zoanthropes 
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Dec 5, 2017 15:49
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Perhaps 1 cast per 500 points? (Round up, in the case of a list thats like 1998 pts)
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Dec 5, 2017 15:50
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Pendent posted:I actually really liked the idea someone had where each time you attempt to cast smite gives a stacking -1 penalty to the success of the next attempt to cast. The first one has no penalty, the second is at -1, the third at -2 and so on. That was my idea, and I wanted to apply it to every power. That way you could have a lot more flexibility in the Psychic phase and also minimize spam. And the penalty was per successful cast, not just attempt.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:57
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Liquid Communism posted:If it wasn't infantry only, I'd totally have Bjorn and a librarian Dread punch each other then go punch all the things.
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Dec 5, 2017 15:57
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:That was my idea, and I wanted to apply it to every power. That way you could have a lot more flexibility in the Psychic phase and also minimize spam. I honestly don't think that would be balanced. Picture my Blood Angels being able to cast Wings of Sanguinius multiple times on a 5,6, then 7. One flying Dreadnought is pretty good; several seem maybe a little too good.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:04
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Here's the concept rule... Tempting the Warp Every successful casting of a psychic power adds a cumulative -1 penalty to additional Psychic tests to cast that same power. This penalty resets at the end of every Psychic phase. A modified Psychic Test of 2 or less will result in a Perils of the Warp. This is in addition to a Perils of the Warp occurring if a double 1 or a double 6 is rolled on the Psychic test.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:05
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Does anyone know of good third-party bits to convert regular marines into LotDs? I really like them as a concept but the sculpts are... really old?
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Dec 5, 2017 16:07
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Pendent posted:I honestly don't think that would be balanced. Picture my Blood Angels being able to cast Wings of Sanguinius multiple times on a 5,6, then 7. One flying Dreadnought is pretty good; several seem maybe a little too good. They also run the risk of a peril on a 2, then 3, then 4. It would make Orks rather interesting, with a bunch of boyz getting teleported in your opponent's face with multiple castings of 'Ere We Go! complete with bonuses from Power of the WAAAGH!
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Dec 5, 2017 16:08
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Corrode posted:Sure, I'd prefer it be scalable. But I'd prefer a solution that works to one that's perfect, whereas people seem to keep saying 'it should be scalable' without offering an actual suggestion of what that solution looks like. 3 Smites per turn isn't perfect, in part because it's not scalable and in part because it's not balanced factionwise. I'm not "offering an actual suggestion" because like I've said, I think increasing the points costs for psyker units is a fine solution. The problem wasn't that you could cast smite too many times, it was that you could bring too many smite-casting units. If I were to offer a solution, I'd prefer to see smite spam psykers be given something else they can do in the psychic phase instead of only smiting e: I do like increasing perils chances for subsequent casts of Smite in the same turn. In fact, I like that enough that I wouldn't mind seeing it tested system-wide. Something where you aren't limited to using *any* power on a per-turn basis multiple times, but your second cast gives you perils on any doubles and your third+ give you perils on any non-doubles, or something similar. Casting is still very possible, but progressively riskier. e2: Although lol that still won't "fix" brimstone horrors TheChirurgeon fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 16:12
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Schadenboner posted:Does anyone know of good third-party bits to convert regular marines into LotDs? I really like them as a concept but the sculpts are... really old? Honestly, any given marine with the right paint job and maybe a skull helmet makes perfectly servicable LotD.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:16
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Honestly, any given marine with the right paint job and maybe a skull helmet makes perfectly servicable LotD. I was thinking of using Mk3 marines with DA parts because my personal skulgun is that the whole Fire Hawks thing was a ruse cooked up by the Ordo Chronos*, the LotD are the historical echos of the HH-era Dark Angels cast forward in time to repent for their sins also Cypher is actually the Lion. *: "Will have was been a ruse to be cooked up by the Ordo Chronos"? 
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Dec 5, 2017 16:25
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Schadenboner posted:Does anyone know of good third-party bits to convert regular marines into LotDs? I really like them as a concept but the sculpts are... really old? 
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Dec 5, 2017 16:29
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:They also run the risk of a peril on a 2, then 3, then 4. Alas, perils only activates on double 1 or double 6. Picking up modifiers to a psychic test doesn't mean you're more likely to to get perils. If that was the case Magnus would be much worse off with his +2 bonus, and Shadow in the Warp would be really scary.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:29
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Schadenboner posted:*: "Will have was been a ruse to be cooked up by the Ordo Chronos"? They're people essentially arguing about greenwich mean time not time wizards like people thought. Artum fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Dec 5, 2017 |
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Dec 5, 2017 16:36
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Artum posted:They're people essentially arguing about greenwich mean time not time wizards like people though. Didn't they go back in time and wipe themselves out? (  or so it would seeeeeem... )
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Dec 5, 2017 16:39
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The geniuses over at Bell of Lost Souls have figured out that the real problem with 8th edition is that stratagems are too good and "stifle creativity": http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/12/40k-needs-a-counter-spell.html Their solution? A 2cp stratagem that cancels your opponent's stratagem on a 3+. MUCH more creative!
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Dec 5, 2017 16:43
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Gilgameshback posted:The geniuses over at Bell of Lost Souls have figured out that the real problem with 8th edition is that stratagems are too good and "stifle creativity": They also refer to the explictly obvious idea of Death Company charging on turn 1 as Goatboy's idea.
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Dec 5, 2017 16:46
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Gilgameshback posted:The geniuses over at Bell of Lost Souls have figured out that the real problem with 8th edition is that stratagems are too good and "stifle creativity": This is the worst, dumbest idea
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Dec 5, 2017 16:47
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