|
And convenience is a huge driver in donations. Services like Patreon can bunch payments, like they use to do, reducing fees and making small donations viable. Traditional donation models cant do that sort of thing and so cant take small donations at all, which forces people to only make larger donations to their absolute favorite content. Its why this is such a weird move for patreon its getting rid of their primary reason for being from a donator perspectice.
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2017 19:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 16:50 |
|
|
how glad am i that my $2000 diamond chrome ball irradiating metal bug zapper with buttons will soon have more convenient options for me to continue to pay to get anything out of. Now I can continue to enjoy comics from the confine of my house, which me and all my friends around here call "womb central"
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2017 20:02
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:Is the Internet actually a good place for comics? If the income of 60% (rough estimate, just ballparkin it here fellas) of successful webcomics is tied into the success and profit-making potential of a third party venture capital nonsense firm with a four year half life that exerts no editorial interest in whatever content it "funds," what does that say about the health of the "industry"? Shouldn't comics be easier to make money from than this? They used to sell this poo poo on f-grade paper for children's pocket change and somehow made enough of a profit/cultural cachet for everyone on earth to know who "superman" is "Can webcomics even be a thing" is kind of a strange question to ask in this, TYOOL Two Thousand And Seventeen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2017 20:15
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:Print comics were a much more prominent and sustainable medium when entertainment options were much more limited, and therefore the audience and market were much bigger. That's not to say they don't exist now, but if you're an artist who has a particular kind of story you'd like to tell, your options in modern print comics are pretty limited, and they are also threatened by the same type of malicious/idiotic capital interests as being funded by patreon or other similar entities. If you're an artist you're best suited using your existing creative skillset to try and think of ways for yourself and others to exist outside of that box just jk of course, thanks amazon for my creative and financial freedom
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2017 20:25
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:Print comics were a much more prominent and sustainable medium when entertainment options were much more limited, and therefore the audience and market were much bigger. That's not to say they don't exist now, but if you're an artist who has a particular kind of story you'd like to tell, your options in modern print comics are pretty limited, and they are also threatened by the same type of malicious/idiotic capital interests as being funded by patreon or other similar entities. Superhero comics killed their own markets.
|
|
#
?
Dec 8, 2017 20:49
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:If you're an artist you're best suited using your existing creative skillset to try and think of ways for yourself and others to exist outside of that box Or, to make the metaphor more accurate, go back to pulling giant stone blocks with ropes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 08:48
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:If you're an artist, you're best suited using your existing creative skillset to make art, not reinvent the wheel. Shitposting on the something awful webcomic forums aside this is a pretty sad perspective on the basic human capacity for creativity! The entire world shifts and turns based off of the inventions and ideas of people, and if you're saying that the people whose job it is to think and express creatively can't, or shouldn't try to use those same abilities (abilities common to every human) think of creative ways to better their lives....that's pretty silly! And we're already pulling giant stone blocks, it's just that instead of building pyramids we're supporting world-encompassing information empires by providing the "content" that they require to keep generating credit momentum and ad revenue. Like have you ever noticed that the current most "successful" "creative" enterprise online is being alone in a room and making longform video game commercials that the audience is still required to pay for? Bleck! Gross! Who wouldn't want that to change?
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 20:16
|
|
|
If you're calling for a Socialist revolution I am 100% behind you but otherwise I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 20:50
|
|
|
PMush Perfect posted:If you're calling for a Socialist revolution I am 100% behind you but otherwise I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here I am saying the internet is a bad place for art and that piggybacking off of privately-owned third party services that have less than zero interest in your content outside of how it fits into an algorithm is an awfully shortsighted thing to build an industry (if you can call it that) on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 21:09
|
|
|
Please, continue to tell the webcomics thread that actually, webcomics are a terrible idea.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
pretty sure without the internet a lot of webcomic peeps wouldn't have had the opportunity to get any kind of success out of their work so lol unless you don't think they were being "creative" enough
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:I am saying that shops are a bad place for books and that piggybacking off of privately-owned third party services that have less than zero interest in your content outside of how it fits into their shelves is an awfully shortsighted thing to build an industry (if you can call it that) on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
Yeah like literally what are you talking about. The internet has meant that it's easier to find a platform to publish and get public exposure than ever, especially because there's no quality gate. What on earth makes you think that physical media isn't published and then distributed via "privately owned third party services"? You know what publishers are, right? What, exactly, are you asking us to do here? I'm not building an industry, man, I write stories about gangsters and then draw them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
The internet and print are both dead. Now begins the age... of the darkwebcomic
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
we shall draw our comics on driftwood and post them out into the uncaring ocean, like proper artistes
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 22:51
|
|
|
let's join the artist formerly known as john campbell, delete our internet presence, burn all our books, and renounce all participation in capitalism
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
Crocoswine posted:pretty sure without the internet a lot of webcomic peeps wouldn't have had the opportunity to get any kind of success out of their work so lol see i hear this argument a lot and i don't think that i buy it! i think if the talent's there they break through and theres copious examples of that throughout history, humans are more adaptable than we give ourselves credit for. if they're successful now then that's not a computer or a service doing that, that's them. what i'm saying is that the internet is not a financially stable mechanism! it's got its advantages but i think in the wake of ONE service on this thing arbitrarily charging more and disrupting so many peoples livelihoods it might be time to rethink how we structure and distribute comics Shops, surprisingly, can still be less totalitarian than online marketplaces. It's also easy to read comics on paper because paper is not a fluorescent lightbulb. a bloody icon posted:
i was thinking mail! it's cheap, comic issues are easy to send out, there's like four nation(world?)wide post offices. Go to a local printer, (find a copier!) maybe you can figure out a good way to save on the project doin that. buy a stapler, get some chips and 2 liter bottles of soda, invite betty and veronica, have a great time! this is all stuff im planning to do personally btw!! I wanna put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. please visit duck comics dot word, if you would like an issue of comics
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
truly, the best and only way to experience art and to survive financially in the comics world is the kinko's-printed zine
Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Dec 9, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
AriadneThread posted:let's join the artist formerly known as john campbell, delete our internet presence, burn all our books, and renounce all participation in capitalism i felt bad for john campbell! like cmon dude, he was having a nervous breakdown largely because of the financial strain of the big expensive independent internet payment model getting dumped on him. i think we should be making more books tbh! books last longer than computers will
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 23:19
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:see i hear this argument a lot and i don't think that i buy it! i think if the talent's there they break through and theres copious examples of that throughout history, humans are more adaptable than we give ourselves credit for. if they're successful now then that's not a computer or a service doing that, that's them. what i'm saying is that the internet is not a financially stable mechanism! it's got its advantages but i think in the wake of ONE service on this thing arbitrarily charging more and disrupting so many peoples livelihoods it might be time to rethink how we structure and distribute comics As someone who's known several people who have had to put together and distribute print material, "cheap" is not the word I would use to describe it, at least when it comes to self-publishing. Even then, the vast majority of the people who are interested in buying print versions of an artist's product likely only know about their work via their internet presence in the first place. It's absurd to pretend that the internet hasn't been the most important factor in making independently-produced art at all profitable for 99% of the people out there. Talent and commitment are only two small parts of being successful, you still need to be lucky enough for the right people to notice you and pass your work along to wider audiences, and the web has been crucial in making that more of a non-issue.
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 23:45
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:i felt bad for john campbell! like cmon dude, he was having a nervous breakdown largely because of the financial strain of the big expensive independent internet payment model getting dumped on him. you know part of what sent them into that spiral was facing down going broke trying to pay all the 'cheap' postage to ship kickstarter rewards, right
|
|
#
?
Dec 9, 2017 23:54
|
|
|
Morbi posted:As someone who's known several people who have had to put together and distribute print material, "cheap" is not the word I would use to describe it, at least when it comes to self-publishing. Even then, the vast majority of the people who are interested in buying print versions of an artist's product likely only know about their work via their internet presence in the first place. cheap"er" than huge print runs of big comics on kickstarter! and I'm not offering this as the only solution, these are just ways I've been thinking for myself to try and make money in more stable ways. Like it or not, the whole internet is built on an unstable, credit-based monopolistic economy and patreon is going to be far from the last of these services to become unfeasible
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 00:03
|
|
|
AriadneThread posted:you know part of what sent them into that spiral was facing down going broke trying to pay all the 'cheap' postage to ship kickstarter rewards, right or dmt! here's a thought, a comic book weighs 2 ounces and costs one dollar to ship through the mail. why is the predominant webcomic model the graphic novel?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 00:13
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:i was thinking mail! it's cheap, comic issues are easy to send out, there's like four nation(world?)wide post offices. Go to a local printer, (find a copier!) maybe you can figure out a good way to save on the project doin that. buy a stapler, get some chips and 2 liter bottles of soda, invite betty and veronica, have a great time! There's still room for hand-made comics in this world, but it's certainly not cheap or easy, and they're pretty ephemeral. There was a panel at SPX2016 about this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N51p5qAKEb8
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:here's a thought, a comic book weighs 2 ounces and costs one dollar to ship through the mail. why is the predominant webcomic model the graphic novel? Because that's what a lot of people want to make, mostly. Also, I'm pretty sure the predominant webcomic model is actually still "newspaper strip."
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
FunkyAl, I am not trying to be rude and am genuinely curious -- who are you mailing these comics to?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 00:31
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:or dmt! You mean a floppy rather than a book? Because books sell better by miles, is why, and the profit margin on them is much higher. Postage is more but the customer is paying that, not you, and they're generally okay with that. Also, "postage is a dollar" is a really US-centric way of looking at it! Not to mention, if this were to take off, you're kind of forgetting the amount of work that goes into a mass-mailout. The amount is a lot. Edit: Also I mean at the core of this the only place you will get your customers is online so your core idea of "internet is bad for comics" is getting kinda lost here Kojiro fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Dec 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
a bloody icon posted:FunkyAl, I am not trying to be rude and am genuinely curious -- who are you mailing these comics to? well, nobody yet! i want to have a few "issues" worth of stuff and shop it around to publishers before i try self-publishing. And honestly, probably nobody at first at all! friends and family MAYBE. But it's a good, cheap-ish way to start a base that's easy to overlook because kickstarter and company are new and "successful" Morbi posted:Because that's what a lot of people want to make, mostly. nice, an empty niche fritz posted:There's still room for hand-made comics in this world, but it's certainly not cheap or easy, and they're pretty ephemeral. There was a panel at SPX2016 about this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N51p5qAKEb8 Yo thanks for linking this video!! that was downright decent of you something awful user fritz
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 01:51
|
|
|
Kojiro posted:You mean a floppy rather than a book? Because books sell better by miles, is why, and the profit margin on them is much higher. Postage is more but the customer is paying that, not you, and they're generally okay with that. look, i think my problem with the internet is more existential and stress related than anything. but i do also think that because it is a currently effective tool for gaining attention people overlook that it's at its core an ad, and ads have been around forever! they're still around even! and its funny you should say that bc i have actually been considering doing ads in france lmao. they seem like they like cartoon animal comics, like the comic duck comics dot world, over there! or does anyone know a good french publisher? and computers give me a headache! don't they give you a headache? it's easier and better to read them on paper i think. its nicer to not look at things that are scalding your eyes out. thats all im saying on this i think. i'm not tryin to offend any livelihoods, i'm just saying its flawed and it kould be better. and it seems like web channels are closing up so its a good time 2 vamoose!!! imho
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 02:09
|
|
|
Everything is flawed and could be better, really. The art industry as a whole is a teetering subjective clusterfuck that people managed to bullshit into squeezing a profit out of. Again, it's absurd to pretend the internet has been anything but a net benefit to independent artists around the world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 02:21
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:They used to sell this poo poo on f-grade paper for children's pocket change and somehow made enough of a profit/cultural cachet for everyone on earth to know who "superman" is Superman was first published back when "Adolf" was still a normal name people would have no problem giving their kids. It seems there's something about eight and a half decades of time that causes changes...
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 02:24
|
|
|
I don't have any two cents to offer myself but this convo has been a legitimately great and informative read
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 02:43
|
|
|
just look at all those people who support themselves financially on the backs of copybook zines
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 02:44
|
|
|
this patreon thing is really chapping my butt.FunkyAl posted:look, i think my problem with the internet is more existential and stress related than anything. but i do also think that because it is a currently effective tool for gaining attention people overlook that it's at its core an ad, and ads have been around forever! they're still around even! and its funny you should say that bc i have actually been considering doing ads in france lmao. they seem like they like cartoon animal comics, like the comic duck comics dot world, over there! or does anyone know a good french publisher? this is a wee bit apocalyptic fun hater fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Dec 10, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 03:33
|
|
|
Have you considered hand stapling your comic into zines at a fedex office then screaming at people to take them outside the Walmart?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
this internet thing, I don't think it's gonna last
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 05:12
|
|
|
Also sorry about your weak eyes
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 05:16
|
|
|
FunkyAl posted:and computers give me a headache! don't they give you a headache? it's easier and better to read them on paper i think. its nicer to not look at things that are scalding your eyes out. I read a ton of books (novels and comics both) as a kid and the internet was a godsend for me because it's so vastly easier and more comfortable to read on a computer screen.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 05:58
|
|
|
Back to Patreon...they're still largely silent. Jack Conte said he spent the past two days on phone calls with creators, reading email and tweets. Jeph Jacques confirmed it by recounting the conversation he had with Jack: http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-patreon-fiasco-jack-conte-_has_-been-talking-with-creators/ Basically, it boils down to “We absolutely hosed up that rollout”. Note he doesn't say "we hosed up". The problem was the messaging of the change, not the change itself, in Conte's/Patreon's eyes. They claim the change is necessary to keep the lights on...except the change was supposed to help the creators, not Patreon. Patreon's still supposedly just taking the usual 5%, and moving the payment processor fee from the Creator side to the Patron side (while substantially increasing the number of these fees for stupid reasons). Nominally, according to their stated intentions, Patreon doesn't see any extra income from this. That's certainly bullshit, but what the announcement said conflicts with what Jack told Jeph. Their #1 customer service complaint from Creators was unpredictable income, and as Jeph says...that's how business, especially creative, works. Hell, I bet people who work retail and food service would love for their income to be as predictable as Patreon's.
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 08:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 16:50 |
|
|
Question: Have you ever made or sold anything? Ever?
|
|
#
?
Dec 10, 2017 09:24
|
|