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HOOLY BOOLY posted:Hi thread. I'm a new DM about to run through Sunless Citadel with 5 people of varying skill level (3 brand new, 2 with experience) and i was wondering if yall had tips for me in running this module? In my opinion, try to avoid a situation where you're running Meepo and Erky Timbers as DMPCs simultaneously with the party, it can slow things down a lot.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:13
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CubeTheory posted:In my opinion, try to avoid a situation where you're running Meepo and Erky Timbers as DMPCs simultaneously with the party, it can slow things down a lot. Well it's not like Meepo can really do crap.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:45
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well it's not like Meepo can really do crap. Oh I guess your party didnt have special Meepo armor made and then give him a shortsword and have the fighter spend all downtime training Meepo in martial arts, then have him save the captured kobolds while staying out of sight so it seemed like he did it himself, then pretend to be envoys from the local town looking to set up trade with Yusdrayl to get a sample of her handwriting so we could falsify documents showing she had been working with the goblins while spreading word of Meepos heroics so that the kobolds turned on Yusdrayl and appointed Meepo, our puppet, as the new leader of the kobolds.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:51
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CubeTheory posted:Oh I guess your party didnt have special Meepo armor made and then give him a shortsword and have the fighter spend all downtime training Meepo in martial arts, then have him save the captured kobolds while staying out of sight so it seemed like he did it himself, then pretend to be envoys from the local town looking to set up trade with Yusdrayl to get a sample of her handwriting so we could falsify documents showing she had been working with the goblins while spreading word of Meepos heroics so that the kobolds turned on Yusdrayl and appointed Meepo, our puppet, as the new leader of the kobolds. Thats great.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:55
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Waffles Inc. posted:How does one get around Perception and Wisdom being like, the most overused by a lot? It's not just his DM style either, I see it a lot in my own campaigns Instead of having the party roll have the person who hid the item roll Stealth vs Passive Perception. So instead of the players rolling to notice the trap the kobold rolls to see how well he hid it.
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Dec 12, 2017 00:37
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While i'm in an armchair designer mood, what do you guys think of allowing hit dice to be used any time when out of combat? The reason i bring it up is because i've been in situations where we've had a battle against a pretty tough enemy which has damaged some players a lot, so they want to short rest after to expend hit dice, but others didn't get hit at all. Then after another fight or two someone else is pretty injured and wants to use their hit dice, but allowing too many short rests resets short rest abilities too often which changes the relative power of those abilities (i think the baseline is 2 short rests per long rests in the DMG so allowing more than that increases the power of short rest abilities).
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Dec 12, 2017 01:19
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CJ posted:While i'm in an armchair designer mood, what do you guys think of allowing hit dice to be used any time when out of combat? The reason i bring it up is because i've been in situations where we've had a battle against a pretty tough enemy which has damaged some players a lot, so they want to short rest after to expend hit dice, but others didn't get hit at all. Then after another fight or two someone else is pretty injured and wants to use their hit dice, but allowing too many short rests resets short rest abilities too often which changes the relative power of those abilities (i think the baseline is 2 short rests per long rests in the DMG so allowing more than that increases the power of short rest abilities). It's fine. That's just a QoL change. Short Rests as a mechanic are hosed because some SR recharge abilities work perfectly as encounter or per-2-encounters powers, but then you look at Monk and  at refreshing their full Ki pool every fight. Just another symptom of how 5e was designed without rigorous consideration of how different rules work together.
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Dec 12, 2017 01:32
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CJ posted:While i'm in an armchair designer mood, what do you guys think of allowing hit dice to be used any time when out of combat? The reason i bring it up is because i've been in situations where we've had a battle against a pretty tough enemy which has damaged some players a lot, so they want to short rest after to expend hit dice, but others didn't get hit at all. Then after another fight or two someone else is pretty injured and wants to use their hit dice, but allowing too many short rests resets short rest abilities too often which changes the relative power of those abilities (i think the baseline is 2 short rests per long rests in the DMG so allowing more than that increases the power of short rest abilities). Just roll for random encounters on short rests and make it a small chance so they have to calculate in that risk when stopping. If it doesn't actually happen that often it won't hurt them that much, but they might get more creative with how they spend their time and resources and who they put on the frontlines.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:03
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I've always houseruled short rests to like, 15-20 minute breathers. It's stupid that a short rest RAW is 4 hours. If you're going to spend 4 hours doing nothing, you've obviously got enough time to do a long rest at 8 hours so it's a loving waste to ever short rest.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:09
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"Zombie wrangler" https://twitter.com/turing_police/status/940113173381758976
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Dec 12, 2017 02:11
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Malpais Legate posted:I've always houseruled short rests to like, 15-20 minute breathers. It's stupid that a short rest RAW is 4 hours. If you're going to spend 4 hours doing nothing, you've obviously got enough time to do a long rest at 8 hours so it's a loving waste to ever short rest. Short rest is one hour but that’s still a long time.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:17
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Kibner posted:"Zombie wrangler" My setting has a country with plantations full of zombies doing the menial labor. In the event some of them wander off you would actually need a zombie wrangler to retrieve them. Actually, hiring the party to go retrieve wandered off zombies would be a great sidequest or one shot.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:25
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I think it was mentioned before, but is it official that dexterity modifiers in heavy armor have no effect, including negative modifiers? Patently absurd, but I thought it was the case.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:16
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User0015 posted:I think it was mentioned before, but is it official that dexterity modifiers in heavy armor have no effect, including negative modifiers? Patently absurd, but I thought it was the case. What? Heavy Armor gives you a fixed number AC, disadvantage on Stealth checks, and a penalty to your movement speed if you don't meet its Strength requirement. That's it.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:23
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User0015 posted:I think it was mentioned before, but is it official that dexterity modifiers in heavy armor have no effect, including negative modifiers? Patently absurd, but I thought it was the case. Yeah dex does nothing to your AC if you have heavy armour on.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:42
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Razorwired posted:Instead of having the party roll have the person who hid the item roll Stealth vs Passive Perception. So instead of the players rolling to notice the trap the kobold rolls to see how well he hid it. That still has the problem of the player's Wisdom and proficiency in Perception being over valued. Waffles Inc. posted:How does one get around Perception and Wisdom being like, the most overused by a lot? It's not just his DM style either, I see it a lot in my own campaigns Don't call for Perception checks more often than anything else. The "harrowing ambush" isn't actually well supported in mechanics, so just jettison the idea. Now that you're free of all the Perception to not die checks, you just have to adjust how often the story-relevant item is cleverly and unexpectedly hidden (Perception check) versus in an obvious place that requires some other skill to access. Instead of "We search the noble's room for proof of cult membership." "Roll Perception." You could try "We search the noble's room for proof of cult membership." "Who's on watch?" "Clyde." "Ok, Clyde, you see the noble and his guards approaching. They're going to interrupt your search unless someone can hold the door shut long enough to find what you're looking for (Strength check)." Note that Clyde (or whoever the designated watchperson is) just gets to succeed at their task. Furthermore, the complication that arises can be any arbitrary check. Locked boxes require proficiency in theive's tools (failure leaves behind clear evidence of tampering, but the box is still opened). Housekeeping stopping by requires a Persuasion check. Deciphering the code the journal is written in requires a History check, failure means the character's colleague was the real expert on recurring fish motifs in desert culture symbology. The thing is, if you want to change your habits you need to do the prep work. I'm not saying plot out the story, but build up a deeper and more varied set of complications than "somebody hid the item-of-interest really well." And allow "somebody hid the item only sort-of-well" to be an auto-success before the real check. And as always, the check should be decisive and move the story forward.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:45
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I think the question is if heavy armor negates the -1 penalty from having 8 Dex. I know that 3e distinguishes between "AC bonus" and "AC modifier", such that negative modifiers still apply when wearing heavy armor, but I can't be sure offhand with 5e
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Dec 12, 2017 06:46
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PHB, p. 145: "Heavy armor doesn't led you add your Dexterity modifier to your Armor Class, but it also doesn't penalize you if your Dexterity modifier is negative."
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Dec 12, 2017 06:58
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Low DEX doesn't give you an inherent penalty to your AC, it's just that being unarmored and light and medium armors calculate your AC as #+DEX. Heavy Armor doesn't, it's just a fixed number.
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Dec 12, 2017 07:00
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Think of it in real terms: the DEX bonus to AC represents the fact that you can more easily avoid attacks by dodging (or less easily, if your modifier is negative). If you've got heavy armor, dodging or not is moot, since the armor itself can absorb the blow. So it makes sense you wouldn't worry about DEX if you're literally a wall of steel armor.
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Dec 12, 2017 07:03
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Waffles Inc. posted:How does one get around Perception and Wisdom being like, the most overused by a lot? It's not just his DM style either, I see it a lot in my own campaigns Assign more and more stuff as things that the players just see, period, rather than having to roll for Perception.
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Dec 12, 2017 08:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:Assign more and more stuff as things that the players just see, period, rather than having to roll for Perception. This. Also, let people use skills other than Perception to perceive specific stuff. Survival is as good as Perception for hearing a predator in the bushes. Arcana is as good as Perception for seeing a shimmering field of magic in the corridor ahead. That extends to more skills than Perception, too. Let people use Perform checks in lieu of History to know stuff about literature and art. Let people use Religion in lieu of Persuasion to beseech a priest for aid. Encourage your players to use their skills creatively, and err on the side of saying yes, because using your skills is always more fun than not using them even if you fail the check (and doing so doesn't stall the narrative).
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Dec 12, 2017 09:55
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Part of what makes the "background phrase as skills" idea kinda nice is that it changes the framing of the skill-check. If you're a "soldier" then you should be good at Perception checks to catch a thief trying to sneak into your camp at night. Maybe that also means that you're not good at Perception checks to pick-out a magical scarab in a pile of a hundred other scarabs, but then that's also narratively correct, too.
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Dec 12, 2017 10:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:Part of what makes the "background phrase as skills" idea kinda nice is that it changes the framing of the skill-check. If you're a "soldier" then you should be good at Perception checks to catch a thief trying to sneak into your camp at night. Maybe that also means that you're not good at Perception checks to pick-out a magical scarab in a pile of a hundred other scarabs, but then that's also narratively correct, too. shadow of the demon lord does this straight-up. having a certain profession can grant boons to rolls or just allow you to attempt the roll in the first place. it is on the player to justify why their profession would grant them that capability, so certain professions can be good at the same broad skills but not in the same situations.
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Dec 12, 2017 13:29
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Kibner posted:"Zombie wrangler" Jiangshi are animated for the purposes of moving them to their hometown to be buried. It's a very literal translation because the Daoist priest essentially herds the jiangshi like a shepherd would. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 15:29
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Not being hyperbolic here but thanks y'all, skillchat just now literally completely changed my mental approach to DMing in a much better direction
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Dec 12, 2017 15:32
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Waffles Inc. posted:Not being hyperbolic here but thanks y'all, skillchat just now literally completely changed my mental approach to DMing in a much better direction There's some stuff about tool proficiencies in Xanathar's Guide as well. Being proficient with brewer's tools might make you notice something is wrong with a potion or some water, cook's tools the same for food, jeweler's tools might make you notice a gem is fake, or cut in a strange way, that sort of stuff. I'm about to start a game as a first time DM with 3 first time players and 2 players who haven't played since 2nd or 3rd edition, going through Tyranny of Dragons on roll20. It should be fun, especially since one wants to play a celestial warlock who loves unicorns.
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Dec 12, 2017 16:53
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Waffles Inc. posted:Not being hyperbolic here but thanks y'all, skillchat just now literally completely changed my mental approach to DMing in a much better direction I really don't want to hear another word about how this thread is just a Hatereon for this game.
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Dec 12, 2017 16:57
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I see it as a suicide assist line. Like, killing yourself is bad but loving it up is even worse.
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Dec 12, 2017 17:08
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Conspiratiorist posted:It's a viable alternative for Lore Bards; it's a matter of whether they prefer the 10d6(+40) 2nd slot heal or 20d6(+50) 3rd slot heal. My understanding is that Healing Spirit could be triggered multiple times per round thus giving a ton more potential healing than Aura of Vitality. Saying it's a mere 10d6 is a bit off considering it's 10d6 per character while Aura of Vitality is 20d6, period (and casting Healing Spirit using a 3rd level slot is 20d6 anyway). For downtime healing it seems to me that Healing Spirit is just nuts (compared to other things that is).
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Dec 12, 2017 18:06
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Oh right it's a hoop everyone can jump through on their turn. This thing is moronic I love it.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:38
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gradenko_2000 posted:I think the question is if heavy armor negates the -1 penalty from having 8 Dex. This. Also, does anyone see the inherit absurdity of this? I somewhat understand that heavy armor restricts your agility and ability to move and evade attacks (it really doesn't have that much effect, and our characters live in a world of magic, but whatever). But even so, if I have a 2 dexterity and literally move as quickly and gracefully as a zombie, putting me in heavy armor completely negates my slow speed when it comes to attacks hitting me? I guess I'll assume my drunken shambling is remarkably effective at getting blows to glance off me?
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Dec 12, 2017 18:41
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Adding Dex to your AC represents dodging and weaving, to minimize impact on yourself. With Heavy Armor, the armor itself absorbs that blow with no apparent effect. You don't have to dodge anything because the armor does the work for you. I think it works out just fine, as you can't get below an 8 Dex without rolling for stats (bad idea) or fighting monsters that drain stats (also bad). EDIT: If you wanted to get into historical perspectives and reasonings for armor being the way it is, that's a whole other conversation. In game terms, it's fine.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:54
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It's a kludgey nod to the inherent MADness of a strength based character. Drop your dump stat in dex, buy plate, essentially trade gold for stat points.
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Dec 12, 2017 18:58
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User0015 posted:This. It's like you've never even played a Dark Souls.
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Dec 12, 2017 19:06
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mango sentinel posted:It means the blows are harmlessly glancing off your nigh impregnable armor as you march forward as a plodding juggernaut. Just imagine this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyA8odjCzZ4 Also appealing to reality is pure poison in elf games dont loving do it. Im not using my free time off from being a poo poo farmer to pretend to be a poo poo farmer.
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Dec 12, 2017 20:33
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User0015 posted:This. If you go looking for simulationist details like this in D&D, you will find them everywhere. Do not go down this road. This road leads to three-ring binder full of houserules all focused around the physics of Ability Scores.
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Dec 12, 2017 20:52
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User0015 posted:Also, does anyone see the inherit absurdity of this? No? This is what armour was made for. Turns out in real life you can't actually dodge attacks for the most part especially if you are fighting in a crowd or against multiple people or are being shot at or whatever. Thats poo poo from movies and films. Back in the bronze age, some people decided that instead they should just put big plates of padding and metal and poo poo between them and the pointy things. So that when they inevitably get hit, they dont give a poo poo. Like the concept of armour turning a blow from a weapon isn't even some unrealistic thing even though all your defence is abstracted to one number in D&D. Which given its all abstracted to begin with isn't even something you should be thinking of in terms of realism. JFC what nightmare is this that im defending 5e. kingcom fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 23:48
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That's kinda true in a battle situation, mostly because you can't dodge properly. In the sort of 4 vs 4 (ish) fighting D&D does you'll be doing plenty of dodging regardless of the armour you're wearing. You can be in the fanciest plate thing you can think of, and you'll still need to dodge hammer/mace/pick strikes because your fancy metal suit won't save you from getting crushed or spiked. That's most of the reason those weapons exist. Chopping/cleaving blades work really well against plate too, especially long-handled ones like a halberd. Again, it's one of the big reasons those things were popular. If someone is swinging one of those things at you, your best option is always going to be to get the hell out of the way. I mean, it's better than wearing no armour, but you're going to lose limbs if you decide that dodging is for pussies. The rules work pretty well from a game perspective though.
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Dec 13, 2017 00:07
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AlphaDog posted:That's kinda true in a battle situation, mostly because you can't dodge properly. In the sort of 4 vs 4 (ish) fighting D&D does you'll be doing plenty of dodging regardless of the armour you're wearing. Yeah but that again is 'type of armour' not armour, I mean as was mentioned the type not the weight and 'agility' of a person is more important, AD&D2e had that weird scaling vs damage type thing for all their armours (which was annoying and dumb cause it was extra details that became irrelevant with loving magic weapons and fireballs). Also I could talk about armour design for days cause its so crazy. Like the D&D plate armour everyone thinks of was ironically the style used during the 30 years war, made to deflect musket balls:  (This guy is going to shoot you in your dumb protestant peasant face if you try and pull some halbard poo poo on him) Also yeah you bring up another point of like, combat is about murdering the dude before he gets a hit or two on you. The concept of armour is that you're still dead if you get hit with weapons designed to break your armour type but you can keep going long enough to make sure the guy fighting you is dead first/too. Warhammers are this classic weapon that is a piece of poo poo to fight with but against anyone with their big expensive plate armour is going to die horribly against it. Again though, realistic fight is nobody having health and dying in one hit. Which is very much not a D&D fight or adventurous or heroic or anything in any way. Hence why everything is abstracted to work like an Age of Sail naval battle where ships would need to dodge and maneuver around a lot before nailing those broadsides. EDIT: Actually I guess the game now works like WW2 naval battles where some people are doing dramatic back and forth Hunt for the Bismark style conflicts and other people are playing US naval carriers loaded with Helldivers and Bearcat naval bombers and eventually get to mount a Fat Man (1/day). kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 13, 2017 |
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Dec 13, 2017 00:28
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