BREXIT DAY

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > BREXIT DAY

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Parasite Times posted:

Please use the sharing tools found via the email icon at the top of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found at https://www.ft.com/tour.
https://www.ft.com/content/12cd8338-db45-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b482

The Blairite �centrist dads� rediscovering the political middle
Brexit and an appetite for an alternative British party lie behind this fringe activity
Miranda Green
Read next
Why Britain has few regrets over Europe
new 49 minutes ago
Rumours circulate in Westminster of �salons� held by former prime minister Tony Blair to gradually bring together rebellious �sensibles� from all the established parties with a view to collaborating at some future point � AFP

Share on Twitter (opens new window)
Share on Facebook (opens new window)
Share on LinkedIn (opens new window)

Save to myFT

Miranda Green
December 7, 2017
50

Another day, another voice crying out in the wilderness that was once the richly biodiverse environment of the UK�s political centre. The latest belongs to David Miliband, once New Labour�s golden-boy foreign secretary, now in comfortable exile in New York. In an FT interview, he condemned Brexit as �a difficult and dangerous path�. Listening to those Blairite dropped consonants makes you wonder: where has the middle gone?

His brother Ed, the erstwhile Labour leader, joked on Monday that he could not have done a worse job than the current government unless he had created a �giant lava sinkhole�.

But there is a sinkhole, and it lies exactly where government and opposition used to skirmish for votes.

In response, an array of new parties and centrist movements have emerged. First, in ascending order of seriousness, are the disenfranchised of Twitter, including a journalist from the Economist and Brian Cox, the scientist and broadcaster. Both have mooted a party for sensible people � I paraphrase, but only slightly.

Then there are the �have-a-go heroes�. In middle-class Battersea, Chris Coghlan has founded Renew. In Kensington, Annabel Mullin has founded Advance to push for change in the borough that witnessed the horror of Grenfell Tower. Adam Knight, an angel investor who stood in the by-election in Witney, prompted by the resignation of former prime minister David Cameron, is said to be mulling �a new movement�. All three are anti-Brexit candidates who have stood unsuccessfully before.

Next up, a group of entrepreneurs with serious money to fund a new enterprise are clustered around Simon Franks, a former Labour donor. They hover in the background, are much discussed and are in touch with the �centrist dads� in the Liberal Democrats and on the moderate wing of Labour. But will they pounce? And what would be their electoral strategy in a country where first past the post makes even a successful national insurgency, with good headline poll figures, an extreme long shot at general elections? Vince Cable, Lib Dem leader, who is struggling to get his own party off life support, says he was invited to lead them but declined because they offered �the kind of ideology-free, technocratic, authoritarian centrism that would be more at home in, say, Singapore�.

One sceptical political strategist tells me that �at least the people with lots of money should be able to take the right advice� but broadly �it just doesn�t make sense from outside London or the commuter belt at best � you can�t just introduce a brand-new party on the ground�. And what of the have-a-go heroes? �They will split the vote and let the rightwing Tories back in.�

This taxonomy is united only by their joint probable doom. But public appetite for another alternative may be there: this fringe activity is the electoral equivalent of a tummy rumbling. As Conservative MP Anna Soubry said this week, �there are millions of people in this country who feel that there is not one political party that represents them�.

Hence the constant rumours that circulate in Westminster of �salons� held by former prime minister Tony Blair to gradually bring together rebellious �sensibles� from all the established parties with a view to collaborating at some future point.

And here�s the irony: the Brexit vote is the catalyst for much of this confused and confusing list of initiatives, but the nascent parties fail to address this central issue: they are potential machines for fighting a general election against a leftwing Labour party and the Conservatives in meltdown. By which time, it may be too late to do anything about Brexit. The commonly held view is that the action starts �once this Brexit stuff has all blown over�.

Which leads us back to Mr Blair for a different reason. The former Labour leader sees clearly how to prevent the UK rupturing relations with the EU: �If Labour were really making an issue of Brexit in the right way . . . you could then lead the people who were Labour people that voted for Brexit to an understanding that Brexit�s not the answer to their problems.�

He was quite good at politics, you see. But it is too late to �Take Back Control� of Labour. Which leaves a whole lot of people to start their very own insurgency. Prepare for more.

miranda.green@ft.com

Thought I might share some utter suck with you all. Got to love how apparently there is no party for centrists. (Except for the failing lib dems that even the cucks at FT know are going nowhere). Got to love how apparently every party being run by centrists also made centrism somehow, "diverse". I mean somehow when you have actual choice, that doesn't promote ideological diversity. But when all three parties are run by cucks who all sound the same, like they did in both 2010, and 2015, that suggest a healthy vibrant discourse. Oh and to top it off, apparently there is a silent majority of centrists, I mean that can only be the explanation of why Corbyn won both his leadership elections outright, and that the Blairite, got less then five percent of the vote. A real strong voting block that is!

Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 17:32 on Dec 12, 2017

# ? Dec 12, 2017 17:17

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 15, 2024 19:23

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

its shocking that these people still don't understand that centrism has been totally rejected for a reason

# ? Dec 12, 2017 17:22

Bryter: Nov 6, 2011; but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

Crowsbeak posted:

Thought I might share some utter suck with you all. Got to love how apparently there is no party for centrists. (Except for the failing lib dems

au contraire

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/938467128159727618

# ? Dec 12, 2017 17:31

KomradeX: Oct 29, 2011

Marxist-Jezzinist posted:

Actually no, it is bad.

American here and I can collaborate that you are correct

# ? Dec 12, 2017 18:01

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

hakimashou posted:

People can be right about some things and wrong about others. Everyone is, nobody's perfect. I don't anyone should be deported to a country where they will be tortured.

See he and I disagree about that but probably agree about other things.

"He was wrong about something, he is bad, so everything he says is wrong" doesn't really even rise to the level of thinking. There's even a special name for it in Latin.

I haven't read many of his columns, but I've liked a couple that I did, and I certainly like his style.

I'd like to see more writing that critiques this problematic strain in leftism and does it intelligently and from the same side. No good has ever come from purges or inquisitions or the fixation on purity and orthodoxy.

He is wrong, frequently, about most things. I was using that particular instance of how he is bad at reasoning. His points are coming from a lovely place and declaring "Well I am on the left" is no more relevant than Sargon of Akkad doing so. You don't get to be "on the left" and support invading Iraq and then not apologising for it. You don't get to be "on the left" and call for the rendition of people who are suspects. There may well be a phrase in Latin for it, but to put it bluntly how on earth can you think he speaks for you if you haven't even read his positions!

Then I ask if you haven't read much about him to do so, to see why people critique your understanding of the person.

But he isn't doing it intelligently, he cites someone who thought he was manifestly wrong in how he reasons. If you want to see a critique of authoritarian trends on the left then read Vampire Castle, not someone who supports Authoritarianism as long as it is him that is doing it.

The fact is that people get irritated by Nick Cohen because, out of all the things he is he is also an intellectual coward. He refuses to apologise for crap like this. Maybe you would have more of a point if he had tried to apologise and was still being harangued. But he hasn't, and won't, because he is very comfortable calling for despicable things.

# ? Dec 12, 2017 20:05

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

nopantsjack posted:

America is objectively worse than most places in the developex world by any metric other than GDP and military strength, but it does have some lovely scenery and I can only assume some good food hiding behind the industrial cow fattening slop

Hey you know where else has some lovely scenery and edible food? Basically every country in the world, where you also can not die from a toothache

# ? Dec 12, 2017 20:40

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

Jose posted:

things that are really good about america: going bankrupt when you injure yourself

things that are really good about the jungle: that jungle turned me into a monster that jungle made me go harder

# ? Dec 12, 2017 20:49

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

sensible trade unionism

# ? Dec 12, 2017 20:51

belgend: Mar 6, 2008; me when The Club do another win

Bryter posted:

au contraire

https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/938467128159727618

v25.4.17

# ? Dec 12, 2017 20:52

HerraS: Apr 15, 2012; Looking professional when committing genocide is essential. This is mostly achieved by using a beret.

Olive drab colour ensures the genocider will remain hidden from his prey until it's too late for them to do anything.

Crane Fist posted:

Hey you know where else has some lovely scenery and edible food? Basically every country in the world, where you also can not die from a toothache

did you just post this in the UK thread

# ? Dec 12, 2017 21:10

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

I fled the UK before it seemed like a good idea and distance has made me forget how bad it sucks

At least the NHS existed once, as does the absolute boy, so it's still better than America

# ? Dec 12, 2017 21:19

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

Baloogan posted:

things that are really good about the jungle: that jungle turned me into a monster that jungle made me go harder

jungle is massive

# ? Dec 12, 2017 21:22

hakimashou: Jul 15, 2002; Upset Trowel

Josef bugman posted:

He is wrong, frequently, about most things. I was using that particular instance of how he is bad at reasoning. His points are coming from a lovely place and declaring "Well I am on the left" is no more relevant than Sargon of Akkad doing so. You don't get to be "on the left" and support invading Iraq and then not apologising for it. You don't get to be "on the left" and call for the rendition of people who are suspects. There may well be a phrase in Latin for it, but to put it bluntly how on earth can you think he speaks for you if you haven't even read his positions!

Then I ask if you haven't read much about him to do so, to see why people critique your understanding of the person.

But he isn't doing it intelligently, he cites someone who thought he was manifestly wrong in how he reasons. If you want to see a critique of authoritarian trends on the left then read Vampire Castle, not someone who supports Authoritarianism as long as it is him that is doing it.

The fact is that people get irritated by Nick Cohen because, out of all the things he is he is also an intellectual coward. He refuses to apologise for crap like this. Maybe you would have more of a point if he had tried to apologise and was still being harangued. But he hasn't, and won't, because he is very comfortable calling for despicable things.

Didn't the whole labour party support invading Iraq? He wasn't an MP anyway was he, like he didn't get a say. Anyway you can be on the left and also have made many mistakes or have been wrong or heterodox about many things. I don't remember saying "He speaks for me!" and I don't know how some newspaper columnist could to begin with. I personally don't believe torture is ever OK, but reasonable people can and do disagree on that, and it doesn't have much to do with the left vs the right.

He made the mistake of believing opinion polls early in the year, the same mistake theresa may did.

Anyway he's a newspaper opinion columnist, what's his job if not to challenge people's beliefs?

# ? Dec 12, 2017 21:38

Ague Proof: Jun 5, 2014; they told me
I was everything

No, there were Labour defectors most notably Corbyn and a few members of his Shadow Cabinet.

It was the Lib Dems under Charles Kennedy who were unified in opposition to the Iraq war.

# ? Dec 12, 2017 22:03

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

hakimashou posted:

Didn't the whole labour party support invading Iraq? He wasn't an MP anyway was he, like he didn't get a say. Anyway you can be on the left and also have made many mistakes or have been wrong or heterodox about many things. I don't remember saying "He speaks for me!" and I don't know how some newspaper columnist could to begin with. I personally don't believe torture is ever OK, but reasonable people can and do disagree on that, and it doesn't have much to do with the left vs the right.

He made the mistake of believing opinion polls early in the year, the same mistake theresa may did.

Anyway he's a newspaper opinion columnist, what's his job if not to challenge people's beliefs?

Corbyn and a few others didn't. 1 million people (or there about) marched in the street to protest it and most people disbelieved what Tony Blair said about Iraq. Cohen on the other hand has not only said that he supports the war, but he even supports it now. After ISIS after the destruction that has been wrought and not being able to go "Maybe I got this wrong" seems really really daft. You've said that he is "just like you", which kind of implies a level of agreement beyond "I like what he says in part". Also, no "reasonable" people don't disagree on torture, this shouldn't be something that is even up for debate. If you want to try and debate it on various grounds you can, but I am going to have to say that torturing people is always an act of evil.

Then you clearly don't know much about him. From day -1 of Corbyns rise to become leader Cohen has voiced his intense distaste for him. He has also, prior to this, been vociferous in his disdain for the "stop the war" people.

Challenge their beliefs well, provide reasoning for their current beliefs and, the most important from a commercial standpoint, generate revenue.

# ? Dec 12, 2017 22:19

Gorn Myson: Aug 8, 2007

hakimashou posted:

Didn't the whole labour party support invading Iraq?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Parliamentary_approval_for_the_invasion_of_Iraq

Look at those votes. Its also a good explanation why the Tories have never hard run on a line of attacking Labour for pushing us into Iraq (because they were entirely on board with it).

# ? Dec 12, 2017 22:25

Ague Proof: Jun 5, 2014; they told me
I was everything

Conservative Party (2)
Democratic Unionist Party (0)

# ? Dec 12, 2017 22:28

Fallen Hamprince: Nov 12, 2016

https://twitter.com/SocialistVoice/status/940688313064845313

people dying in private prisons in the UK just as the US is about to elect a pedo to the legislature, feels like the atlantic isn't as wide as it used to be

# ? Dec 12, 2017 22:32

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

Ague Proof posted:

No, there were Labour defectors most notably Corbyn and a few members of his Shadow Cabinet.

It was the Lib Dems under Charles Kennedy who were unified in opposition to the Iraq war.

more like most notably robin cook. corbyn hardly rated a mention in contemporary coverage.

# ? Dec 12, 2017 23:18

Ague Proof: Jun 5, 2014; they told me
I was everything

Cerv posted:

more like most notably robin cook. corbyn hardly rated a mention in contemporary coverage.

I mean for this thread.

# ? Dec 12, 2017 23:42

Bulgogi Hoagie: Jun 1, 2012; We

Crane Fist posted:

Hey you know where else has some lovely scenery and edible food? Basically every country in the world, where you also can not die from a toothache

don�t try russia with this attitude, unless you intend on wholly avoiding any sign of civilisation and going through the majestic but untrodden wildlands

# ? Dec 12, 2017 23:43

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Bulgogi Hoagie posted:

don’t try russia with this attitude, unless you intend on wholly avoiding any sign of civilisation and going through the majestic but untrodden wildlands

Who needs Russia

If I wanted to get beaten to death by heavily armed fascists with government backing while miles from any sign of civilization I'd go sell loose cigarettes in New York

# ? Dec 13, 2017 00:23

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

STOP loving RESPONDING TO HAKI JESUS CHRIST

# ? Dec 13, 2017 00:45

Communist Thoughts: Jan 7, 2008; Our war against free speech cannot end until we silence this bronze beast!

HES SO BAD HE GOT RAN OUT OF THE D&D THREAD AND NOW YOU RUBES ARE GENUINLEY RESPONDING TO THA oval office

PLX CSPAM NO

# ? Dec 13, 2017 00:47

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

nopantsjack posted:

HES SO BAD HE GOT RAN OUT OF THE D&D THREAD AND NOW YOU RUBES ARE GENUINLEY RESPONDING TO THA oval office

PLX CSPAM NO

Oh... erm, mind if I ask why?

# ? Dec 13, 2017 00:51

augias: Apr 7, 2009

Look at the rap sheet m see for yourself

# ? Dec 13, 2017 00:52

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

Josef bugman posted:

Oh... erm, mind if I ask why?

He's a literal genocide and nazi apologist.

# ? Dec 13, 2017 01:06

Josef bugman: Nov 17, 2011; Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund