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The cloth industry is one thing I almost always gently caress up or just forget about. Even after playing many times I still don't remember what exactly the process from pig tail plant to pig tail clothes looks like.
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Dec 15, 2017 12:10
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Cloth is somewhat annoying because unless you've got a really good workflow, an external management program, or a site with lots of natural spiderwebs, it will inevitably need to be babysat on occasion as your cloth-providing plants go out of season and get used up, or whatever. I've gotten a lot better about remembering to set up a farmer's workshop and a loom to manage that because I tend to do stupid counter-productive stuff like crank out endless green glass or masterwork meals and I constantly need bags. Don't even ask me about dyes, though, I hardly ever touch that system. The process is thankfully simple, it's just that a lot of forts will never need to touch it. Plant cloth-plant -> 'Process Plants' at Farmer's Workshop -> Loom auto-weaves cloth -> Clothier workshop uses cloth. ...I mean, the funny part is that's potentially more steps than it takes to do metalwork, but that seems sufficiently dwarfy. Shady Amish Terror fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 12:14
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Internet Kraken posted:Silk cloth is functionally identical to cloth made from plant fiber right? So is there any reason to go out of your way to obtain spider silk other than for the novelty of it? I modded in "Giant Cave Moths" who lay cocoons nest boxes. One of the byproducts of turning them into silk thread is pupae, which can be used as food. Eventually, once my sericulture industry gets rolling I can feed my entire fortress with bug guts, it's pretty disgusting  For the base game I don't think there's much reason aside from moods and the player's own satisfaction. For some reason I'm really into fiber arts in this game so I like having a wide variety of materials. Clothing your dwarves in forgotten beast silk is rad as hell even if it's difficult and not particularly valuable.
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Dec 15, 2017 12:28
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Shady Amish Terror posted:Cloth is somewhat annoying because unless you've got a really good workflow, an external management program, or a site with lots of natural spiderwebs, it will inevitably need to be babysat on occasion as your cloth-providing plants go out of season and get used up, or whatever. I've gotten a lot better about remembering to set up a farmer's workshop and a loom to manage that because I tend to do stupid counter-productive stuff like crank out endless green glass or masterwork meals and I constantly need bags. Don't even ask me about dyes, though, I hardly ever touch that system. Yeah basically it's simple but there's some things about it that are opaque and annoying. It's hard to see for example which types of clothes your dwarves lack, do they need trousers or socks or hoods? I don't even know the difference between a cloak and a robe, something about body cover but I don't really know. Do dwarves care if they wear trousers or leggings? Do I need socks if I already made shoes? Do male dwarves wear dresses? What if they're gay? That part of DF makes me feel like I'm playing a Barbie game so I just try to draft as many dwarves as possible into metal armor squads and pump out a standard issue uniform at the forges as fast as I can, then set their uniform to replace clothing so I don't have to worry about nudity. What is your standard uniform, by the way? I always tell the manager to order a breastplate, greaves, a pair of gauntlets, a pair of high boots, a helm and a shield. Low boots sounds like dwarves could get bitten in the ankles or something and a breastplate just sounds cooler than a mail shirt, that's as far as my reasoning goes. Is there a better set? Shibawanko fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 13:05
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Personally I'm pretty lazy and when I bother with a unique uniform, I tend to set up something very similar to what you suggest along with picking any weapon, because I'm lazy. Given my history of forts destroyed by werebeasts, it is probable that I frequently choose poorly when trying to find the right armor for full coverage. I do also tell them to put on any cloaks or capes or togas they may find, that's very important.
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Dec 15, 2017 13:20
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That set covers the most skin, as it were. In terms of pure coverage, according to raws anyway, that's probably the best there is.
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Dec 15, 2017 13:22
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My standard uniform is the usual breastplate, mail shirt, greaves, gauntlets, high boots and helm, plus another layer of leather under/over that - a hood, robe, cloak, trousers and mittens. Since civilians tend to snatch the leather clothing up before the military can get to it, I always just produce it in bulk from imported hides, along with cloth shoes, to keep everyone clothed.
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Dec 15, 2017 13:41
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Yeah, actually giving all the orders to produce the right stuff (for both armor and clothing) is the biggest problem I have with the system. Especially when you're in a hurry and can't just queue up 30 of each item at a time. I remember the Masterwork-mod had an option for creating full sets of clothing/armor as 1 item, that would have been really handy.
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Dec 15, 2017 15:00
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Mygna posted:My standard uniform is the usual breastplate, mail shirt, greaves, gauntlets, high boots and helm, plus another layer of leather under/over that - a hood, robe, cloak, trousers and mittens. Since civilians tend to snatch the leather clothing up before the military can get to it, I always just produce it in bulk from imported hides, along with cloth shoes, to keep everyone clothed. Wait you can wear a breastplate and mail shirt at the same time? I recall there was also some rule about dwarves' individual body sizes or some poo poo, so some of them could actually wield long human swords and maybe wear human clothes?
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Dec 15, 2017 15:15
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Shibawanko posted:Wait you can wear a breastplate and mail shirt at the same time? Unless Toady played around with the equipment settings at some point you can actually make your dwarves wear even more than that. The wiki has the full breakdown for an "optimal" configuration, but loading every soldier up with a breastplate, three mail shirts and six different cloaks etc. feels both too gamey and too  to me. Same for trying to import marginally superior foreign equipment types or figuring out which of your dwarfs is huge enough to dual-wield human longswords or whatever.
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Dec 15, 2017 15:46
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Also, with the exception of forgotten beasts and megabeasts, a single layer of steel armor is usually more than enough to survive most anything that a siege will throw at you. So all of that extra crap just weighs down the dwarves and makes them too slow to be effective. I don't even bother with breast plates. Mail armor is good enough.
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Dec 15, 2017 17:13
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Armour is dwarfy and more armour is more dwarfy, therefore the best dwarf is the one wearing the most armour 
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Dec 15, 2017 17:53
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Mygna posted:Unless Toady played around with the equipment settings at some point you can actually make your dwarves wear even more than that. The wiki has the full breakdown for an "optimal" configuration, but loading every soldier up with a breastplate, three mail shirts and six different cloaks etc. feels both too gamey and too Not to mention even 1 of each layer in steel slows them down considerably until they raise their strength and armor skills. Last time I played, anyway.
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Dec 15, 2017 18:02
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Shibawanko posted:Yeah basically it's simple but there's some things about it that are opaque and annoying. It's hard to see for example which types of clothes your dwarves lack, do they need trousers or socks or hoods? I don't even know the difference between a cloak and a robe, something about body cover but I don't really know. Do dwarves care if they wear trousers or leggings? Do I need socks if I already made shoes? Do male dwarves wear dresses? What if they're gay? That part of DF makes me feel like I'm playing a Barbie game so I just try to draft as many dwarves as possible into metal armor squads and pump out a standard issue uniform at the forges as fast as I can, then set their uniform to replace clothing so I don't have to worry about nudity. So for my first squad I accept that they're going to be near useless for a while. Their initial uniform is: Socks, Leather shoes, Leather Trousers, Leather Gloves, Leather Shirt, Maybe a Leather Cloak, Leather Cap, Leather Hood, Metal Helm, Metal Shield, and their training weapon. Since the Helm is the only initial piece of "armor" they train armor user while they spar but without the encumbrance slow down. (Even though leather clothes do count as armor, I haven't tested if that only trains the skill in real combat or if sparing counts) Once they get up to competent or skilled, I put them on the next level. Next level is moving them out of the training squad into the first combat squad: Almost the same as before, replacing the shoes with Metal High Boots, adding a Metal Mail Shirt, a Metal Breastplate, Metal Greeves, and Metal Gauntlets. And finally replacing the training weapon with a real one. Normally I assign one directly rather than allow them to choose because I tend to decorate the nicer ones I produce with metal studs and bone. Now they're fully kitted out and training, and once I have at least two dwarves with a somewhat developed teaching skill I break one off to found a new squad and the new squad gets up to Adept or Expert in everything within a very short time, normally a year or two. Rinse and repeat. Toady has pretty much fixed all the equipment bugs, with the remaining ones being about bin usage. So to solve that I make small stockpiles that disallow bins, one ~1x6 for each type of item, somewhat close to my barracks. Tell it to pull from your bulk storage and only allow exceptional or masterwork military gear. (or lower, if you haven't got the production line skilled up enough) Because the bulk stockpile will often be in bins that are 'in use' the military dwarves will very rarely grab anything other than whats in the nice stockpile.
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Dec 15, 2017 18:13
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Maybe in my next fort I'll make a "Juggernaut" squad kitted out in maximum armor while the other squads wear the standard set. You have to survive being in a 'lower' squad until your strength/armor gets high enough to graduate in to the elites. Thank you for this. Can you reproduce this bug? tom bob-ombadil fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 19:05
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I often make boreholes to find the three cavern layers that I then close with a hatch cover (still invulnerable to everything, right?), locate adamantine and then make a tunnel that bypasses the caverns and leads directly to the vein if possible, then use the adamantine to make a semi-reliable squad. I'm crap at some of the micromanagement and while I know how to use the equipment screens, the training schedules can eat my balls, I can barely make my own weekly schedule in real life because I'm horrible with dates and times, let alone think about the weird dwarven calendar. Fortunately adamantine largely solves that problem.
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Dec 15, 2017 19:41
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Shibawanko posted:Yeah basically it's simple but there's some things about it that are opaque and annoying. It's hard to see for example which types of clothes your dwarves lack, do they need trousers or socks or hoods? I don't even know the difference between a cloak and a robe, something about body cover but I don't really know. Do dwarves care if they wear trousers or leggings? Do I need socks if I already made shoes? Do male dwarves wear dresses? What if they're gay? That part of DF makes me feel like I'm playing a Barbie game so I just try to draft as many dwarves as possible into metal armor squads and pump out a standard issue uniform at the forges as fast as I can, then set their uniform to replace clothing so I don't have to worry about nudity. Dwarf Therapist has an equipment column next to the happiness column. Hover over it and it will show you any missing locations. If several people are missing pants, you're probably out of pants. It's handy.  I believe civilians only wear trousers, not leggings. Leggings are considered armor, trousers are not. I'm not sure, but I think leather trousers and leather leggings have identical protective value. So if you are short on leather make only leggings, so only dwarfs with leather uniforms will wear them. If you have lots of leather make trousers, so everyone will wear them. Another wrinkle: greaves can not be worn over leggings. If you want them to wear bone or metal greaves over leather, use trousers Socks are tricky. You never want to make socks part of a military uniform, because if the uniform includes socks and boots sometimes they will put 2 socks on one foot and then they can't wear a boot (unless this has been fixed). If you stay on top of your clothing industry you can get by without socks. But if your clothing industry goes in fits and starts, then wearing socks provides a backup so if their shoes rot away they may not be immediately barefoot. Used socks are a valuable trade good, but by the time you have XsocksX you probably have lots of valuable trade goods. Optional. Dresses are functionally identical to robes -- they cover exactly the same amount of flesh and everyone will happily wear either one. (Dresses are an under layer, robes are an over layer, but that doesn't seem to matter to anything.) Cloaks cover the same spaces as well, but are a cover layer. If you make dresses and robes and cloaks every civilian will wear one of each, making them nearly immune to accidentally becoming naked. All three cover everything but feet, wrists, and head. Easy minimum clothing list to keep civilians happy:
Robes Cloaks Trousers Shoes If your civilization doesn't have robes use dresses instead. If your civ doesn't have robes or dresses your civ sucks, use togas or shirts instead.  As you can see here you could get away with just cloaks and shoes because cloaks cover nearly everything, but then everyone is one bad day away from being naked. Never produce caps - they conflict with helms, and besides hoods cover just as well. Never produce vests, tunics, or shirts - use robes or dresses instead for better coverage for the same cost. Never produce low boots - high boots provide better coverage for the same cost. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Armor
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Dec 15, 2017 20:20
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Facebook Aunt posted:Dwarf Therapist has an equipment column next to the happiness column. Hover over it and it will show you any missing locations. If several people are missing pants, you're probably out of pants. It's handy. drat, this is really helpful, thanks!
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Dec 15, 2017 20:41
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Sometimes your dwarves haven't discovered high boots.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:18
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COMRADES posted:Sometimes your dwarves haven't discovered high boots. The worst civilization. Just let the goblins kill everyone.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:26
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I wish you could control job priorities in more detail, like I nearly always want my dwarves to build bridges immediately, and not after my architect is done making mechanisms, a bridge or a floodgate is usually something of importance, as are fortification carvings. The "do it now" thing helps, but doesn't work for construction and designations. Strangely, constructing walls seems to have a very high priority as it almost immediately gets done by a lot of dwarves.
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Dec 15, 2017 21:36
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quote:Socks are tricky. You never want to make socks part of a military uniform, because if the uniform includes socks and boots sometimes they will put 2 socks on one foot and then they can't wear a boot Game never ceases to impress.
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Dec 15, 2017 22:46
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Shibawanko posted:I wish you could control job priorities in more detail, like I nearly always want my dwarves to build bridges immediately, and not after my architect is done making mechanisms, a bridge or a floodgate is usually something of importance, as are fortification carvings. The "do it now" thing helps, but doesn't work for construction and designations. Strangely, constructing walls seems to have a very high priority as it almost immediately gets done by a lot of dwarves. Forgive me if I'm wrong but can't you do this in the new versions? I swear I remember being able to set a 1-9 priority to constructions...
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Dec 15, 2017 22:47
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So shirts in the DF world covers fingers but not palms and toes for whatever reason. Interesting.
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Dec 15, 2017 23:43
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Only due to a bug. Sleeves or pant legs can't cover hands or feet, but fingers and toes don't have that same flag. If they're defined to be long enough, they can "skip over" hands and feet and reach their subordinate bodyparts. If you make all garments have UBSTEP and LBSTEP values of at most 2, it shouldn't happen anymore.
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Dec 16, 2017 00:25
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Leal posted:So shirts in the DF world covers fingers but not palms and toes for whatever reason. Interesting. Dwarves walk around with their fingers in their shirts. I've got no explanation for toes however.
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Dec 16, 2017 00:48
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I think dwarves should have their domestic animal stock changed up so they are more balanced towards mountain and hill animals while humans get the plains animals. 
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Dec 16, 2017 01:10
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Facebook Aunt posted:Used socks are a valuable trade good This loving game
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Dec 16, 2017 04:48
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I like to offer garbage to the elf caravan for, ahem, brownie points.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:28
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redleader posted:This loving game I assume there is an alchemist somewhere paying top dollar for well-aged dwarven socks.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:42
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Elves use them as fertilizer.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:44
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OK, I have to ask: why am I only getting 2 or 3 migrants at a time? I've churned through about ten new fortresses the past couple weeks under various different circumstances and I can't figure it out. Something's got to be wrong. Is there a dfhack command to force a migrant wave? I don't think there is but maybe I missed it somewhere.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:51
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Eric the Mauve posted:OK, I have to ask: why am I only getting 2 or 3 migrants at a time? I've churned through about ten new fortresses the past couple weeks under various different circumstances and I can't figure it out. Something's got to be wrong. I'd be really happy if I had this "problem" because managing large migrant waves in a pain in the rear end.
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Dec 16, 2017 06:00
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I have a lot of cage traps, and to free up space I move all the non-edible prisoners into a single cage. Somehow. After a few years I've got a couple goblin sieges, an ettin, a cyclops, a couple fire imps, a bunch of troglodytes and so on. The cage is outside the walls, and when I get annoyed by the number of things making GBS threads up my cage/pasture list I pull the lever and let them fight it out. In the middle of utter chaos the goblins start kvetching. quote:Nako Ukustusbu, Goblin Pikeman: The battle rages... I laugh in the face of death! WTF this is a battle not the holliday inn.
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Dec 16, 2017 06:04
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That's awesome, my last fort has rooms and rooms of prisoners I gave up trying to do anything with. Is there an easy way to get all the prisoners into a single cage?
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Dec 16, 2017 06:24
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quote:I need to get away from here and wander the world. I don't feel sorry for myself. same
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Dec 16, 2017 06:28
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It's going to be interesting when repatriating prisoners of war inevitably becomes an option and we're suddenly going to find entire dwarven civs that consist solely of kobolds who outbred the original dwarves, or whatever. This can kind of already happen with goblin civs, who are occasionally made up almost entirely of members of other species because they were overly successful in early kidnapping raids.
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Dec 16, 2017 06:33
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Dwarven brainwashing needs to be a thing now.
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Dec 16, 2017 07:03
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Shibawanko posted:Wait you can wear a breastplate and mail shirt at the same time? you can wear three mail shirts, a breastplate and 5? cloaks if they put them on in the right order. its important too because im pretty sure shoulders are only covered by mail and cloaks The Moon Monster posted:Not to mention even 1 of each layer in steel slows them down considerably until they raise their strength and armor skills. Last time I played, anyway. for minimum micro without gimping them, you can do a mail shirt, gauntlets, high boots, chain leggings and helm and you'll get 100% of the armor user experience as a fully kitted dwarf. once they level up, throw more on TheCIASentMe posted:Also, with the exception of forgotten beasts and megabeasts, a single layer of steel armor is usually more than enough to survive most anything that a siege will throw at you. So all of that extra crap just weighs down the dwarves and makes them too slow to be effective. once your guys have great+ armor user you should add a breastplate. they can fully deflect hammers/blunt trauma which otherwise just goes straight through armor like its not there. having a chance at not breaking your spine is pretty important
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Dec 16, 2017 07:20
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Shady Amish Terror posted:It's going to be interesting when repatriating prisoners of war inevitably becomes an option and we're suddenly going to find entire dwarven civs that consist solely of kobolds who outbred the original dwarves, or whatever. One of the pocket worlds I generated while testing stuff had a "dwarf" civ that apparently had no dwarves left in it. When I embarked all my settlers were humans.
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Dec 16, 2017 07:39
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