|
Waffles Inc. posted:Movies are a visual medium Movies are a visual and audio medium. When it comes to things like plot and motivations for the characters I'm going to take the explanations and exposition directly and plainly spoken as the reasons for the events in the film over how I interpreted the visuals in a Star Wars movie. trash person fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Dec 18, 2017 |
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:46 |
|
|
trash person posted:Look back to what I said about hindsight. We're talking about the decisions the characters made in that moment with the information available in that moment. The perspectives being argued here are one where we blame everything on Poe in hindsight, and one where we don't. If we actually talk about things 'in the moment' then Poe did nothing wrong in insisting the dreadnaught be destroyed on the spot. The rebels were about to be wiped out to the ship 'in the moment'. The war as about to end 'in the moment'. If there was going to be a continuation of the war, one Poe hints at by describing the scale of the threat at hand as a "fleet killer", then the dreadnaught had to go. Sad about the bombers, but those things were slow and dumb and if nothing else deserved to die for that alone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
Leia says he can't solve all of their problems by blowing poo poo up. She's right. The Resistance can't beat the First Order militarily - although Poe does save the Resistance thanks to his reckless actions. Poe's entire character arc is basically learning that a successful insurgency can't just inflict more damage on its upon than it receives, but has to conserve its strength and inspire the people. This transforms the Resistance from a black ops holdover into the vanguard of a Maoist revolution.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
trash person posted:Movies are a visual and audio medium. That’s that then *shrug*
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
best internet content 2017
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:46
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:If we actually talk about things 'in the moment' then Poe did nothing wrong in insisting the dreadnaught be destroyed on the spot. The rebels were about to be wiped out to the ship 'in the moment'. This discussion isn't worth having until we can actually watch the movie at will because I'm 99% sure the whole idea is the rebels were that close to being wiped out in the moment only because Poe insisted they stick around and destroy the dreadnought.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:47
|
|
|
trash person posted:This discussion isn't worth having until we can actually watch the movie at will because I'm 99% sure the whole idea is the rebels were that close to being wiped out in the moment only because Poe insisted they stick around and destroy the dreadnought. When you do go watch the movie eventually, I'll be happy to revisit the discussion.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:48
|
|
|
gohmak posted:I don’t dislike the movie. I actually enjoyed it quite a bit better upon second viewing but that scene violates the themes of the movie and is against the established physics of the world. 1) No it doesn’t. 2) The physics of Star Wars don’t matter, nor does this scene explicitly contradict anything we’ve seen on screen. If you care enough about physics in Star Wars you can care enough to make up an explanation for why it all actually makes sense.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
fivegears4reverse posted:When you do go watch the movie eventually, I'll be happy to revisit the discussion. I just saw it yesterday. That's why I said 'at will', meaning be able to go back and revisit it to directly point to scenes to support the argument.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
The physics of the universe where the lead protagonists have a FaceTime chat at approximately 40000 light years apart.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
Fart City posted:I must have missed this. What was the clue? In Luke's Jedi hut, where he talks about the Jedi and Sith, you know that little pool of water? This is the mosaic there:  It may be nothing, just a coincidence, but it does sorta have a resemblance to Snoke.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:54
|
|
|
Also what ever happened to the gungans they could’ve easily been on casino planet Aka these movies hate the prequels
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Jose Oquendo posted:In Luke's Jedi hut, where he talks about the Jedi and Sith, you know that little pool of water? This is the mosaic there: looks like Coppola's Dracula
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Jose Oquendo posted:In Luke's Jedi hut, where he talks about the Jedi and Sith, you know that little pool of water? This is the mosaic there: Jesus it does look just like Snoke. Man the hardcore fans are gonna be pissed if through further expanded material it's found that it was literally the first ever Jedi that died like that with next to no in movie discussion about the character.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:56
|
|
|
Empress Brosephine posted:Also what ever happened to the gungans they could’ve easily been on casino planet I thought 100% it was gonna be podracers at the casino. I assumed Disney was going to ignore the prequels wholesale, surprised they didn't. Hell Luke saying 'Darth Sidious' and directly referencing the Jedi Order and its actions in the prequels was more than I ever expected to hear about the prequels from Disney Star Wars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
The people of color do the real work of trashing the rich yet the #resistance takes all of the credit smdh
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:00
|
|
|
The secret to ending the nerd debate is to stop talking about heroism in the abstract and/or this bloodless cost/benefit analysis.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Jose Oquendo posted:In Luke's Jedi hut, where he talks about the Jedi and Sith, you know that little pool of water? This is the mosaic there:  holy poo poo what does it mean?!
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
Another thing is that those bombers were useless as gently caress. I mean what else were they going to do? I guess they could've turned them into hyperdrive suicide bombers, that probably would've done some work.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:05
|
|
|
Junkie Disease posted:
That's why Luke tossed the lightsaber. Phanto was coming for him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:05
|
|
Young Freud posted:Because Kylo Ren shot a loving photon torpedo into their hangar bay, destroying all their X-wings and other fighter craft. At the start of the film?
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:07
|
|
|
Honestly, the big problem with so much stuff in TLJ, this whole dreadnaught thing included, is that this is the film that draws the most attention to things like fuel and range and yet isn't set on actually building the plot with them in mind. Because the script is bad.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:09
|
|
|
BardoTheConsumer posted:Oh uh. I don't remember now either. It made sense at the time. All good, we all get discombobulated what with nerdery flying left and right.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:11
|
|
|
Like, this is a film that's basically all about communication and the importance of trusting the people around you. One of the most impactful scenes is when Rey and Ren talk to each other in the hut. It's a film that makes it clear that Holdo should've trusted Poe and Poe should've trusted her. Luke should've trusted that Ren wasn't going to kill everything he loved and Ren should've trusted that Luke, the hero of the galaxy, wouldn't murder him. But then it brings things like gender and military protocol into the mix and, again, doesn't touch on them. 'Poe is bad because he doesn't respect Holdo, a woman', 'Poe should trust his Admiral who acts and looks nothing like an Admiral'.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:12
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:Honestly, the big problem with so much stuff in TLJ, this whole dreadnaught thing included, is that this is the film that draws the most attention to things like fuel and range and yet isn't set on actually building the plot with them in mind. I mean it uses them in the same way that Empire and Phantom Menace both use the "hyperdrive doesn't work" bit. (Logically if the Falcon can't go FTL it should be taking them loving YEARS to get to another system, unless Bespin is in the same system as Hoth.) I mean I don't see where TLJ contradicts itself in regards to fuel or range.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
Anyone expect the Broom Kid at the end to pull this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEoaN9qIxFs
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
I'm loving the defense im seeing that "it doesnt care what you think about star wars and thats why its great". I don't like star wars much so I guess its my fault I was thinking I was getting a fun movie
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
Well years for everyone else Maybe a few months for them on the Falcon. But they never do time dilation.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:14
|
|
|
i will concede that the execution on screen was not clear enough, allowing literal crazy people to maintain their intense cognitive dissonance towards the actual plot and events that occur in the film
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:15
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:I mean it uses them in the same way that Empire and Phantom Menace both use the "hyperdrive doesn't work" bit. (Logically if the Falcon can't go FTL it should be taking them loving YEARS to get to another system, unless Bespin is in the same system as Hoth.) ESB does not have a scene where the distance to Bespin from Hoth is mentioned. In fact, all you get is "I think we can make it" and "it's pretty far". If Han had said "Bespin is six hours away" then, yeah, that's a problem. But ESB explicitly does not draw attention to it. Even if I'm sure there were people, rightfully, wondering just how the Falcon got there.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:'Poe should trust his Admiral who acts and looks nothing like an Admiral'. I'm not sure what "Holdo looks nothing like an admiral" means if not "she dyes her hair and wears a dress", nor why this would matter.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:22
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:Like, this is a film that's basically all about communication and the importance of trusting the people around you. One of the most impactful scenes is when Rey and Ren talk to each other in the hut. It's a film that makes it clear that Holdo should've trusted Poe and Poe should've trusted her. Luke should've trusted that Ren wasn't going to kill everything he loved and Ren should've trusted that Luke, the hero of the galaxy, wouldn't murder him. That’s nonsense. If that were the theme, then you must also say that the slaves should trust the rich casino people not to abuse them, and the resistance should trust the first order to not blow them up. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Dec 18, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:25
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:That’s nonsense. If that were the theme, then you must also say that the slaves should trust the rich casino people both to abuse them, and the resistance should trust the first order to not blow them up. It is nonsense. The film is incoherent because it basically goes 'all you need to do is talk to each other' without engaging with things like class, gender, military protocol, military tactics, the fact that one side is flat out genocidal, etc. that demonstrate how 'just talking' won't fix things. So that's how you get the "Poe should've just blindly trusted Holdo, who cares how she looks, sounds and acts (case in point, right above your post), Star Wars is now about blindly trusting the people in charge".
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Does anyone have a summary of the new Battlefront game and it's DLC? Supposedly it explains how and why Luke went to this planet and other silly poo poo related to TLJ.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
It's less about "we need to talk" and more about how protecting and helping people is more important than destroying the enemy. Sometimes destroying the enemy may be necessary (as in the cruiser's suicide run), but you should not concentrate on that to the exclusion of helping others. At least that's what I got from one viewing. Repeated viewings may refine my perception of what the film's theme is, but I rarely work this sort of thing out after just one watch. Swear to God some of y'all have eidetic memories.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:33
|
|
|
Until Holdo decided to go with her  death, I thought she would be revealed as a traitor, with her being the one who put the light drive tracker on the ship exchange for something like her life or planet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:35
|
|
|
Rirse posted:Until Holdo decided to go with her I thought there'd be something inside Finn, maybe a tracker or some sort of "switch" to make him turn, considering the cut from "We have them on the end of a string" right to his unconscious face.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:37
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:And Luke wasn't grandstanding or trying to be a hero. His entire plot, which he explicitly says, is not to be the big hero who does everything. You don't try to be a hero. You try to do what's right and in doing so you might become a hero. This is a little bit ago, but this thread moves fast. Luke was 100% grandstanding at the end, not in some selfish need to be a hero, but to selflessly give them a hero. The entire thing is literally an illusion, but since no-one knows apart from Ren, it gives them hope and a story to tell to the kids, one man facing down the entire First Order. "What do you expect me to do, fight the entire First Order with my laser sword?" "Sometimes people need a hero" He gives them what they need, not reality, but the legend. We just get to see behind the curtain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:38
|
|
|
Red room, red pill 
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:46 |
|
Maxwell Lord posted:It's less about "we need to talk" and more about how protecting and helping people is more important than destroying the enemy. Sometimes destroying the enemy may be necessary (as in the cruiser's suicide run), but you should not concentrate on that to the exclusion of helping others. How do you protect someone and how do you help them? Those are just goals. What does the film say is the solution to Luke's crisis with Kylo Ren? Luke 'looked into his mind' and came to a decision. We don't even know how much of the darkness is in Kylo exclusively, given that it is a reflection (hall of mirrors scene, linked to the dark side) of his fear of losing everything he loves. It basically flat out says Luke should've tried talking to him instead of assuming he was too far gone. And yet there are many people who come out of this film and say 'Luke should've killed Ren, he was too far gone even as a kid'. It's like the people who say 'Kylo just wants power'. No, Kylo wants validation. And power is the way he can get it.
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 01:39
|
|