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DentArthurDent posted:That was exactly my point. The movie tries to end on a positive note, with the music swelling and a boy posing with his toy lightsabre, as if the Resistance will rise again. But the Resistance allies have already turned their back on them, and there is nothing in the movie to make it realistic that will change in episode nine. They have lost all their ships, they have lost almost all their personnel, and Luke's actions on this deserted planet hardly seem like the the event that will turn things around.
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Dec 19, 2017 13:15
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Steve Yun posted:Why didn't they make a droid run the ship into Snokes ship? Isn't that what droids are good for. Because the story takes precedence over the mechanics of the universe. If they just autopiloted the ship to ram the bad guys instead of it being a personal sacrifice it would have had less impact lol storywise. Just have them say "the autopilot's hosed" like they did in JJ Trek 1. It doesn't change the story. vvv that I would have been cool with Captain Splendid fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 13:16
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It should have been Ackbar instead of this new unfamiliar general.
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Dec 19, 2017 13:19
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Most of what I think about the film has been discussed at length, but I wanted to address the dudes in red fighting Kylo+Rey after Snoke died. What with the Empire/FO being this dog-eat-dog hierarchical structure, I'd expected them to go "the Supreme Leader is dead, glory to the new Supreme Leader" more than anything. Also, them being a "mini boss" before they fought Snoke, or Snoke's puppets that he force-multiboxed, could have made him appear as powerful as many fans expected him to be while still allowing for a relatively uncomplicated way to kill off the character. Their loyalty remaining after their master's demise struck me as odd for members of the Empire/FO. I'm not misremembering the order in which those events took place, am I? 
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Dec 19, 2017 13:28
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Parallel Playa posted:Most of what I think about the film has been discussed at length, but I wanted to address the dudes in red fighting Kylo+Rey after Snoke died... If I had to guess, I''d say it's because when Snoke died, it wasn't clear to them or the audience that he wanted to take Snoke's place, rather that he'd turned away from the FO.
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Dec 19, 2017 13:30
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Parallel Playa posted:Most of what I think about the film has been discussed at length, but I wanted to address the dudes in red fighting Kylo+Rey after Snoke died. What with the Empire/FO being this dog-eat-dog hierarchical structure, I'd expected them to go "the Supreme Leader is dead, glory to the new Supreme Leader" more than anything. Also, them being a "mini boss" before they fought Snoke, or Snoke's puppets that he force-multiboxed, could have made him appear as powerful as many fans expected him to be while still allowing for a relatively uncomplicated way to kill off the character. Their loyalty remaining after their master's demise struck me as odd for members of the Empire/FO. I just figured the guys in red had been standing around like chumps for months on end in that throne room and were just happy to finally have something to do.
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Dec 19, 2017 13:36
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Parallel Playa posted:Most of what I think about the film has been discussed at length, but I wanted to address the dudes in red fighting Kylo+Rey after Snoke died. What with the Empire/FO being this dog-eat-dog hierarchical structure, I'd expected them to go "the Supreme Leader is dead, glory to the new Supreme Leader" more than anything. Also, them being a "mini boss" before they fought Snoke, or Snoke's puppets that he force-multiboxed, could have made him appear as powerful as many fans expected him to be while still allowing for a relatively uncomplicated way to kill off the character. Their loyalty remaining after their master's demise struck me as odd for members of the Empire/FO.
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Dec 19, 2017 13:38
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Kurzon posted:The Star Wars movies don't really explore the politics of the galaxy rather well (I still have no clue why the Clone Wars happened). What on earth? It is incredibly clear why
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Dec 19, 2017 14:05
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Waffles Inc. posted:What on earth? The opening crawl of Phantom Menace tells us exactly why. TAXATION OF TRADE ROUTES
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Dec 19, 2017 14:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The point is that it’s entirely accurate. Holdo is a white-collar boss type, and that does make her a better fit for Resistance leadership than Poe. The resistance stands for returning the hereditary nobility and rich merchant classes back to their rightful places of power and control that the Empire evilly stole from them. This has been consistent throughout 9 movies Also I don't think the new republic ever actually existed. More likely it was a few planets full of said squabbling nobility that never had the consent of the governed. There's no other explanation for the state of affairs as shown
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Dec 19, 2017 14:16
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who was snope's force counter? palpatine was the force counter for the jedi order luke was the force counter for vader snope says rey was the force counter for kylo ren so who's Snope's light side spirit double? also poe was right about more things than anyone else, and his fondness for space violence was way more productive than Leia's Space Twitter plan. like the entire rebellion's plan A has always been send a bunch of snub fighters on a suicide mission with 90% casualties and they keep doing it. Ragging on Poe for it is hypocritical. Hell, Leia did the same drat thing later in the movie! Grown up & mature leader Leia apparently barely even tried to lead the Republic. Instead she messaged her besties to bring their swag, we gonna go live like terrorists again, because i can't convince anyone that the most fanatical remnant of the empire is actually a threat. General Huxtable was completely drat stupid. Useless as a villain. No cruelty, no hautuer, no skill. that dumb 'prank' at the start pretty much set the tone. Huxey skates on being a complete moron because apparently Snope forgot that he ordered the Deluxe Star Destroyer, Now With The Button You Can Press To Track Enemy Ships. Hux Jetson gets credit for pressing the button. Being tracked through light speed is impossible! Wait, I didn't check the patch notes, actually it's possible. Forgot! Sorry! Also, those times in previous star wars movies where ships were tracked with homing beacons. Totally implausible for that to happen again. The "On a string" thing was just completely wankery and lying to audience to pretend there's some mystery to it. Is there a traitor? A secret beacon? A list of all their escape plans? A captured high level officer? Nah. They just have a button that follows ships.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:45
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GoldfishStew posted:Went to a screening where Rian did a q and a after. Have some details maybe you’d be interested in: Thanks that's super interesting Impressive they were only on the rock for two days.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:52
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Nition posted:A hundred pages of argument here about whether Holdo should have told them the plan, and no-one talking about how Luke didn't tell them his plan before he went out to meet Kylo. What if they'd all just waited around to see what he was going to do instead of deciding he meant them to escape? Would it have been so hard for him to say "get out while I create a distraction"? It gave room for Poe to figure it out on his own. Which showed how Poe was becoming a better leader.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:54
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Kurzon posted:It should have been Ackbar instead of this new unfamiliar general. Hmm yeah interesting but why do you think they chose to go with Holdo instead.
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Dec 19, 2017 14:56
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Ackbar and Leia were the only rebel leadership anyone cared about so Ackbar had to die if Leia didn't. It's also probably hard to emote tension with a fish person.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:03
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I’ve seen Rian Johnson equating Snoke's role to the Emperor's as a way of explaining why he didn’t need to explain anything, and I think he’s dumb for believing it.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:05
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Ackbar is a meme.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:05
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Captain Splendid posted:Because the story takes precedence over the mechanics of the universe. I don't think autopilot exists in star wars, or at least the only time we are shown robot ships they require massive massive outside infrastructure and seem extremely simplistic. Star wars seems pretty set on computer technology being pretty much useless except it can sometimes randomly make robots that are alive.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:10
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Basebf555 posted:Luke is gonna still be around, I bet more than we'd expect. He's gonna be constantly looking over Kylo's shoulder harassing him and Hamill will be amazing in that role. I mean, he was already great in a very similar role in the last Arkham game. Tender Bender posted:I would be really looking forward to the next movie if Johnson was doing it, because yeah there's no clear path forward but I'm sure it would be interesting. The combination of Abrams being back, losing Carrie Fisher who was apparently a big part of their plan for IX, and the fan backlash so far has me worried they're going to play it super safe and it's going to be a straightforward "get to Kylo and win" story. "Fan backlash" means nothing if it's still make an ungodly amount of money. Which it is currently doing.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:11
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I don't think they care about internet Star Wars nerd complaining. If they do they should be fired.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:12
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I don't think autopilot exists in star wars, or at least the only time we are shown robot ships they require massive massive outside infrastructure and seem extremely simplistic. Star wars seems pretty set on computer technology being pretty much useless except it can sometimes randomly make robots that are alive. Autopilot does exist, or rather, at the very least Anakin, a child from the outer rim is familiar enough with it as a concept to think that it was autopilot that was piloting his ship into space
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Dec 19, 2017 15:14
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Even if sufficient autopilot existed I doubt it would have jumped into hyperspace in proximity to the other ships.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:16
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euphronius posted:Even if sufficient autopilot existed I doubt it would have jumped into hyperspace in proximity to the other ships. Totally agreed; I wish people would stop coming in here going, "but why not more hyperdrive suicide bombs" It's borderline unbelieveable that some peoples' takeaway was, "why don't we restructure our military to be in more in line with Al Qaeda"
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Dec 19, 2017 15:21
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... the escort vessels... and their not-auto-pilots....
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Dec 19, 2017 15:26
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Waffles Inc. posted:Totally agreed; I wish people would stop coming in here going, "but why not more hyperdrive suicide bombs" I think it's less "why don't they ALL kamikaze?" and more "why aren't there hyperdrive missiles?" The light speed from the hyperdrive is what caused magnitude of the destruction, not a payload being carried. It was a ship that went real fast. Just like in that anime clip someone posted, you don't even need to prohibitively construct fleets of giant junker ships to use as ammo, just slap a hyperdrive to an asteroid and get a mouse droid to fly it. I don't care either way
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Dec 19, 2017 15:31
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once you've shown something like that in the canon, you naturally invite the question of 'why don't they do that all the time?' and 'why didn't they do that from the start?' and 'why didn't they just solve x y and Z problem from previous movies the same way?'. it's destructive of Star Wars whole laser battles at 50 meters oeuvre. This is especially the case when you had 3 whole movies where the evil side was staffed by incredibly expendable droids. The biggest previous example of this sort of thing in Star Wars was the A-wing kamikaze into the Executor. And that was specifically justified by mentioning their bridge shields were down and the ship was vulnerable. Snoop's flagship wasn't vulnerable or damaged or anything, it was just that Kamikaze is Cool and Good. They half assed it by showing the flagship focusing fire on the escape pods (does it only have 1 gun?)at the expense of firing on the cruiser , but since it's an important plot point that the rebel cruiser was out of effective range...that doesnt really help. That scene was more to up the wow factor that establish any consistency. In fact they could easily have fixed the problem by having the captain say "Divert power from deflectors to forward weapons! I want those transports destroyed!". Or they could have even tied it into to the Casino Plot by having the hyperspace tracking doohickey make them vulnerable. and then right after kamikaze saves the day, it turns out kamikaze is only good if noone loves you TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 15:38
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Penpal posted:I think it's less "why don't they ALL kamikaze?" and more "why aren't there hyperdrive missiles?" Movies are not documentaries, there is no talking head military expert who is going to appear and say, "it was at that moment with the holdo maneuver that we realized we could just create junker ships to shoot at enemies" Let me put it another way: why was no one calling for the rebel alliance to use their fighters as kamikaze death weapons after a single A-Wing destroys a super star destroyer? If you want to have fun with your headcanon, isn't the more useful thing to think not "why don't they do this more often?" in a bad way, but in a way that supports the text, such as "We know from the events of Empire Strikes Back that every ship--hell, every city, even--is its own droid intelligence. Perhaps that droid will not allow itself to be killed in a suicide attack so a pilot has to remain on board to murder the droid and take over control itself."
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Dec 19, 2017 15:44
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:once you've shown something like that in the canon, you naturally invite the question of 'why don't they do that all the time?' and 'why didn't they do that from the start?' and 'why didn't they just solve x y and Z problem from previous movies the same way?'. Why don't those questions just as naturally invite the answer of "given that we haven't seen this before there's probably a really good reason why they don't do this all the time and solve all their problems like this."?
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Dec 19, 2017 15:44
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Mr. Flunchy posted:Why don't those questions just as naturally invite the answer of "given that we haven't seen this before there's probably a really good reason why they don't do this all the time and solve all their problems like this."? someone pin this post please
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Dec 19, 2017 15:46
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Just wanted to say that this was the worst Star Wars movie they have made.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:48
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Windmill Hut posted:Why did Maz even need to be in the film? Maz ties in with the message of the Casino planet, specifically in how the war against the First Order isn't actually helping anyone. In the previous film she spoke on and on about the unending war between light and darkness, the Sith and the Jedi, etc. But now that she can actually be of help, she doesn't contribute anything. She's too busy with a union dispute. Evidently the war between good and evil is nice and all, but Maz isn't going to let it distract her from more important things.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:51
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kidkissinger posted:Just wanted to say that this was the worst Star Wars movie they have made. Top 6 for me.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:52
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That's lazy as all hell and bad film making. We don't actually need to keep things consistent or make sense, the audience should just always assume things make sense and proceed accordingly. Noone's asking for perfection. Even within the context of just TLJ they don't establish why they didn't kamikaze earlier. I mean they explicitly showed one of the other ship captains going down with his ship pointlessly!
TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 15:52
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:That's lazy as all hell and bad film making. We don't actually need to keep things consistent or make sense, the audience should just always assume things make sense and proceed accordingly. Noone's asking for perfection. Even within the context of just TLJ they don't establish why they don't just do this earlier, or didn't do it with the previous ships, or anything. They explicitly showed one of the other ship captains going down with his ship pointlessly! Issues with tactical consistency in galactic warfare are not a bad film-making problem. They're a bad audience problem. It would have totally undercut the tension and excitement of realising what Holdo was up to if we'd given us a quick explanation of what was going to happen and why they haven't done this before. Don't be antagonistic to the movie. Just accept what it's showing you and think about the thematic reasons it's happening rather than trying to puzzle out space battle tactics.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:57
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:That's lazy as all hell and bad film making. We don't actually need to keep things consistent or make sense, the audience should just always assume things make sense and proceed accordingly. Noone's asking for perfection. Even within the context of just TLJ they don't establish why they didn't kamikaze earlier. I mean they explicitly showed one of the other ship captains going down with his ship pointlessly! why do you think the other ships didn't kamikaze? or any ships prior to this one? what are your thoughts on why, treating the film as the text instead of thinking of things to add to the text, TheDeadlyShoe?
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Dec 19, 2017 15:58
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Let's say Rey busts out five lightsabers and murders everyone on the whole flagship once she gets on there. Why didn't she do this earlier? What the hell's going on? Oh, nm, the audience should just assume that she didn't do it earlier because of unexplained reasons that do, I assure you, make sense. Also, no need to discuss this with anyone or mention things as a possibility. Movies should just be nonstop montages of unexplained cool explosion scenes. e: It's a low loving bar to clear. All you have to do is establish the situation is exceptional for some reason. *ANY* reason. They did this in previous star wars films - was it a mistake for episode VI to show the SSD bridge shields going down? Should they have omitted that scene? TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 16:00
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Let's say Rey busts out five lightsabers and murders everyone on the whole flagship once she gets on there. Why didn't she do this earlier? What the hell's going on? Oh, nm, the audience should just assume that she didn't do it earlier because of unexplained reasons that do, I assure you, make sense. Also, no need to discuss this with anyone or mention things as a possibility. Movies should just be nonstop montages of unexplained cool explosion scenes. If this is what you're taking away from this discussion you're being incredibly disingenuous Don't treat the art as your enemy, or as if there's some sort of secret code buried within it. Accept that the events happened in the film and that no matter how hard you post on the internet, it won't change. What you see is what's there. You can decide how you feel about a movie, it has no power over you. So your choice is either: a) treat the text as an enemy who has mislead you; b) meet the text on its own level
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Dec 19, 2017 16:02
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Why didn't Luke just suicide bomb Sheev? Why doesn't everyone just suicide bomb all the time?
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Dec 19, 2017 16:06
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Movies should just be nonstop montages of unexplained cool explosion scenes. I mean...yeah, I'm kind of okay with that.
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Dec 19, 2017 16:07
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My favorite part was the opening crawl where they instantly erased everything that had been fought for in the original trilogy and TFA. The second best part was the next scene where Poe establishes that he is invincible, star destroyers are completely impotent, and the top general from the first order is a slapstick villain from kimpossible
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Dec 19, 2017 16:07
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