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I just saw 60 years of stable alliances that kinda ruined a game: Muscowy allied to Denmark, France and the Ottomans. Denmark allied to Muscowy, France, Bohemia. France allied to Ottomans, Muscowy, Denmark. Ottomans allied to Tunis, France, Muscowy. I was a Brandenburg allied to Austria, Hungary, Burgundy. Never once in the 60 years I bothered to play that save, was there a situation where I could have gone into a war to dissolve that alliance block. Is the "great power" penalty for alliances a player only thing? I am pretty sure if I am allied to France and the Ottomans, I can't get a 3rd GP as ally because there's a huge penalty.
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Dec 18, 2017 09:01
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420 Gank Mid posted:the AI is terrible at shipping large quantities of troops across the world. Just make sure you have a big enough fleet to murder France's and you can keep them entirely out of the Americas, or even better, trap their armies outside of France and carpet siege the European lands Yeah, if you want to see how bad the AI is at intercontinental warfare, just play the USA in the War of Independence timeframe. Years of nothing at all from Britain, then they try and land directly into the USA and have to eat the beach landing penalty.
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Dec 18, 2017 10:51
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I finally got the Die Please Die achievement. gently caress Enrique de Trastámara the Unkillable forever.   Anyway, more of a thought experiment to see if I understand trade and production rather than a real question: I got the mission to increase my trade revenue to 60% and I’m sitting at 50-something right now, which got me thinking about it and wiki diving. I have the Sevilla, Caribbean, Cape and Ivory Coast pretty much locked down. If I understand correctly: - Markets won’t help (much) because the amount of trade power is irrelevant, and only your power relative to others matters. I’m sitting pretty at 80-100% in those nodes. - Workshops in Colonial Nations will increase the trade value of the node they are in, but also increase my tariffs because they get more money. - Workshops in territorial cores suffer the 75% autonomy penalty, so they are a crappy investment. - Trade companies increase the trade value of the node by increasing the goods produced but that only affects other nations, so adding provinces to a trade company where you have 100% trade power won’t help either. This doesn’t seem logical at all but it’s an ironman game and I don’t want to try stuff so far into it. So my best bet to increase trade income is to either place markets or light ships in CoT where I have low power?
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Dec 18, 2017 10:54
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Fat Samurai posted:I finally got the Die Please Die achievement. gently caress Enrique de Trastámara the Unkillable forever. Autonomy hardly matters for trade good production, sure you would get more if they were full cores but the RoI if you do it right is insane. Just put up +production buildings in high value tradegood provinces like Dyes/Cocoa/Tobacco and ship them through multiple trade nodes into your home port. The further away they are to begin with (without risking the wealth being diverted away from your collection node) the better
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Dec 18, 2017 11:04
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Fat Samurai posted:I finally got the Die Please Die achievement. gently caress Enrique de Trastámara the Unkillable forever. If you're desperate for a quick fix, maybe reducing tariffs on colonial nations would do it?
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Dec 18, 2017 14:02
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420 Gank Mid posted:the AI is terrible at shipping large quantities of troops across the world. Just make sure you have a big enough fleet to murder France's and you can keep them entirely out of the Americas, or even better, trap their armies outside of France and carpet siege the European lands Yep. Get at least one fleet of 20 heavy ships and a decent admiral and nobody else will be able to touch you for a good while. However, there’s no way you should be that far behind on tech as a successful colonial Japan. If you’re missing institutions you might want to develop for them so you can catch up — if you’re too far behind on diplo power you’ll have little chance for naval dominance no matter how many ships you have.
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Dec 18, 2017 14:06
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Fister Roboto posted:Not really. This game is definitely not geared towards going tall. 
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Dec 18, 2017 17:21
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Is Greenland required for First Come, First Served?
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Dec 18, 2017 17:39
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Terrible Opinions posted:Is Greenland required for First Come, First Served? iirc yes
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Dec 18, 2017 17:41
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You can check by hovering over a province while in that region map mode. IIRC the achievement wants St. Helena too, don’t forget it!
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Dec 18, 2017 17:56
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Fat Samurai posted:I finally got the Die Please Die achievement. gently caress Enrique de Trastámara the Unkillable forever. Workshops don't increase trade value. They increase production income, which scales with trade value, but the building doesn't affect the trade value at all. That means that workshops won't do anything for trade income. The main advantages of trade company provinces is that they have a 0% autonomy floor even if they're not part of a state, and they ignore all penalties for wrong religion and culture. They do increase trade value in unowned provinces, and that's actually good for trade income because it contributes directly to the node's total trade value. If you want to maximize trade income from trade companies, you want to get as much trade power as you can in a node while owning as few provinces as possible. That's just for trade income though. You'll get a lot more money in general by controlling all the provinces and giving them to a trade company, because they'll have zero autonomy and no religion or culture penalties. What you should do to increase your trade income is build a lot of manufactories in the nodes you control. They increase the goods produced in a province, which directly affects trade value, by a flat amount that isn't affected by autonomy. Building a manufactory in a province with ivory will contribute 4 ducats a year to the trade node no matter what. Another thing to consider is that you don't actually have those trade nodes "locked down". You might control all the provinces in them, but countries in downstream nodes will still apply a portion of their provincial trade power to them, and if they place a merchant in those nodes they can siphon off a lot of your trade value. Ivory Coast and the Caribbean are really good examples of this, because they have a lot of downstream paths. Controlling a majority of the trade power is good, but to actually lock down a node, you need to also control all the provinces in every node downstream from it. For the Ivory Coast and the Caribbean, that means basically controlling all of Western Europe. On the other hand, if you control all of the provinces in the Ivory Coast, that makes the Cape a perfect node to collect in. Cape only has one downstream node, so if you control all its provinces, then no other countries can propagate their provincial trade power upstream to Cape, effectively turning Cape into an end node with no downstream nodes. If you can do that, then Cape is the only node where you can reliably collect 100% of the trade value, but that's also a huge advantage because Cape is downstream from a lot of extremely rich nodes in Asia. Controlling Ivory Coast and Cape (or Cape and Zanzibar) is a key trade strategy. But my best advice is to just ditch the dumb mission. A lot of missions are just straight up traps, with difficult objectives to fulfill for a basically worthless payoff, and this is one of them.
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Dec 18, 2017 18:13
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p.s. post ur map
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Dec 18, 2017 18:32
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Fister Roboto posted:But my best advice is to just ditch the dumb mission. A lot of missions are just straight up traps, with difficult objectives to fulfill for a basically worthless payoff, and this is one of them. Yeah, I don't care about the mission itself, I just want to understand how to make oodles of trade money  Thanks for the advice.
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Dec 18, 2017 18:53
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Is there a decent write-up out there that gives some pointers to deal with estates? edit: when I say "deal with" I mean re: their demands for land double nine fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 18:57
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give the merchants high trade power land/centers of trade give the nobles proportionally high manpower provinces give the clergy proportionally high tax provinces/off religion provinces give them the cheapest land possible in case you have to revoke some later don't give the nobles or clergy gold or gems or dyes or anything good
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Dec 18, 2017 19:12
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double nine posted:Is there a decent write-up out there that gives some pointers to deal with estates? Give them your highest autonomy land, since adding an estate removes some autonomy effects. Everything else just depends on the bonuses that estate gives: give tax power to the clergy, etc.
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Dec 18, 2017 19:15
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oddium posted:don't give the nobles or clergy gold or gems or dyes or anything good Also don’t give gold to the merchants either: they give max production efficiency but not max goods produced. The first makes up for the second in the case of all other trade goods, but production efficiency has literally no effect in gold provinces, so the 25% autonomy floor just slashes your gold income.
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Dec 18, 2017 19:40
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double nine posted:Is there a decent write-up out there that gives some pointers to deal with estates? If you are playing as a Christian nation with access to the steppes, also don't neglect Cossacks. They can only take steppe terrain, but they also give you a couple of ridiculous bonuses to cavalry, a special cavalry unit that has +10% shock, and you can spend I think 20 mil points to get +15% to your force limit for 20 years. Grinning Goblin fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 20:22
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if I break a promise to take land, does that modifier count for all ai countries or just the 'victim' country?
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Dec 18, 2017 22:22
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You won't be able to call any AI country into a war with the promise of land for the next 20 years, if that's what you're asking. You only lose trust with countries that you don't give enough land to, though.
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Dec 18, 2017 22:38
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I thought you also lose a tiny bit of trust with everyone
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Dec 18, 2017 22:48
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skasion posted:Yep. Get at least one fleet of 20 heavy ships and a decent admiral and nobody else will be able to touch you for a good while. Yeah I've no idea how I got so far behind on diplo. I'm as caught up on institutions as I can be currently. But I did spend a lot of time annexing vassals and it probably didn't help that annexing my largest vassal brought me down to +0 diplo/month for what was probably too long. Also wars of conquest cost a bit and spending on ideas (either exploration or expansion I can't remember which). Tbh this is only like my second serious playthrough so I'm still learning poo poo despite having over 120 hrs in.
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Dec 18, 2017 23:05
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ah heck yeah full on powerful lady court
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Dec 19, 2017 00:09
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oddium posted:ah heck yeah full on powerful lady court Not using Kaihime as a general shameful. She conquered Korea for me.
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Dec 19, 2017 01:09
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hhaha i ain't worried about generals e: good god 
oddium fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 01:21
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Just survived a 500k vs. 100k punitive war because they let me run around picking off stacks the whole time Started the war with 110k reserves, ended with 70k 140k vs 600k losses Ai bad
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Dec 19, 2017 05:50
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oddium posted:hhaha i ain't worried about generals This is always the best part of playing outside of Europe. Finally getting eyes on it is like unwrapping presents on Christmas  e: I'm Micro-Poland
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Dec 19, 2017 07:11
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What's the recommended pace on an Aztec run going for Sunset Invasion? I finished reforms in 1510, but I felt that I was rushing too much; my economy and manpower was in the shitter and all the other centroamericans were 1 miltech ahead of me (6v5). What I did: force vassal 5 countries, completely annex 2 more, pass reform, release vassals, start over. It worked fine past the first war but eventually one of the other countries got big enough to challenge me one on one (and with force vassal + military strength most/all of my vassals were disloyal).
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Dec 19, 2017 09:58
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oddium posted:hhaha i ain't worried about generals Theres such a thing as overdoing pip modifiers and I think this might be it.
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Dec 19, 2017 09:59
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Tall/development having inherently weaker numbers compared to wide/conquest is not exactly true. The biggest downside is the lack of strategic depth and the double-dipping impact of taking land from threats.
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Dec 19, 2017 10:06
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Butch Banner posted:Theres such a thing as overdoing pip modifiers and I think this might be it. 
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Dec 19, 2017 10:16
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Fister Roboto posted:This is always the best part of playing outside of Europe. Finally getting eyes on it is like unwrapping presents on Christmas migrating ferrara, free silesia, free norway but sweden is still in the pu, i just missed it but a legit released Zaporozhie oddium fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 13:18
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oddium posted:good god
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Dec 19, 2017 14:23
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  edit Is there any way to stop the Propagate Religion bullshit without putting all the heathens to the sword? Poil fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 16:33
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Ormi posted:Tall/development having inherently weaker numbers compared to wide/conquest is not exactly true. The biggest downside is the lack of strategic depth and the double-dipping impact of taking land from threats. People don't really talk about it much but it is certainly the case that since it is now feasible to get 90%+ development cost reduction that you can look to actually developing some provinces as a meaningful way of building up strength. But it's also true that the base cost of developing relating to coring is absurdly high, and to make development something worth doing as an actual strategy you absolutely need to take Economic ideas which is a significant opportunity cost given the scarcity of admin points and the fact that Administrative ideas are so good due to the RCC (and early game the mercenary support ideas are very strong). And even if you're playing with the objective of actually developing provinces you need to unlock a lot of modifiers to make it worthwhile. And as that post highlights, due to climate and terrain problems there are parts of the map where development is made even less viable due to the development cost penalties associated with the wrong terrain and climate. Basically long story short is that development as a strategy requires far more long term planning and focus than just getting admin + influence ideas and riding the "become huge" train to victory, and is also far more situational. But non-stated provinces with no buildings are also weak af and I do think that people overvalue expansion as a concept, though again, developing just isn't worth it if your provinces all have 30% or more increased development cost for various reasons. Butch Banner posted:Theres such a thing as overdoing pip modifiers and I think this might be it. Pips that would otherwise roll over a 6 get added onto other stats so not really. If you have both 6 shock and 6 fire you're already a god and will also probably appreciate the chance to get another 5 siege pips. RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 20:09
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Ormi posted:Tall/development having inherently weaker numbers compared to wide/conquest is not exactly true. The biggest downside is the lack of strategic depth and the double-dipping impact of taking land from threats. There’s also the issue of building slots. Playing in MP as venice, I can assure you even though you have average 30 dev rovinces all over italy as states and equal most powers, the sailor/manpower and FL modifiers mean you can’t match anyone militarily. I had about 110 FL compared to our counterpart in Russia who just spammed their FL buildings all over Siberia and ended up with a FL of close to 500-700 even before taking into account quantity ideas (he ended up with close to 1200 fl btw) Generally the issue is that the flat modifiers per province (such as manufacturies, temples, FL and to some extent manpower sailor buildings) give more bonus overall both economically and militarily than a small tightly developed nation. It would be nice if scaling could be done so tall nations actually have a fighting chance in terms of scale (I.E manufacturies and FL give % based increases so that highly developed nations can benefit from them more) E: actually I might go suggest that in the forums. Hell I’d even trade development cost bonuses for it. Godlovesus fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 20:48
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Butch Banner posted:Theres such a thing as overdoing pip modifiers and I think this might be it. Not really. 100 tradition only gets you 7-17 pips. Even with a perfect roll, you're still 7 pips away from a perfect 6/6/6/6 god-general.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:04
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One thing I'd like to see is some sort of bonus for being under the state cap, something to represent that you have a highly efficient, tightly organized administration. Something that could encourage a tall strategy. On a related note, a bonus for having low or zero absolutism might make things better for republics.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:08
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Godlovesus posted:There’s also the issue of building slots. Playing in MP as venice, I can assure you even though you have average 30 dev rovinces all over italy as states and equal most powers, the sailor/manpower and FL modifiers mean you can’t match anyone militarily. I had about 110 FL compared to our counterpart in Russia who just spammed their FL buildings all over Siberia and ended up with a FL of close to 500-700 even before taking into account quantity ideas (he ended up with close to 1200 fl btw) As well as this, if higher tier buildings were better but didn't replace the existing ones then suddenly there would be a lot more reason to want huge provinces with lots of building space.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:14
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I think maybe conditional military access needs to be toned down a little bit? Dulkadir and their ally the Golden Horde basically have free reign to march all over the Middle East. This is extra frustrating because it is literally impossible to actually fight the Golden Horde because they're too drat fast. e: the GH has 7 military access agreements and 2 alliances. Their monarch has 0 diplomatic skill. jfc Fister Roboto fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 22:08
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