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Lincoln posted:My only complaint with this film is that they should have manufactured a better Ticking Clock than “we have to keep outrunning the star destroyer until we run out of fuel.” Pretty much everything else was rock-solid, and everyone in this thread who says otherwise is trying hard to be a Cinema Discusso contrarian. Worst Thread Ever continues to deliver. Another revision would have helped the script a lot. Much of it tells a story, but stays kind of clumsy in a first-draft way. Ideally I wouldn’t sit there confused about why there are ice foxes cruising around everywhere until someone points out a reason how they connect to the plot. I’m just baffled about why those ice foxes are just walking around in tense drama scenes. Just letting someone else take a crack at integrating them into the story would make everything smooth.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:15
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Native wildlife are a big theme in the movie.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:17
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business hammocks posted:Another revision would have helped the script a lot. Much of it tells a story, but stays kind of clumsy in a first-draft way. Ideally I wouldn’t sit there confused about why there are ice foxes cruising around everywhere until someone points out a reason how they connect to the plot. I’m just baffled about why those ice foxes are just walking around in tense drama scenes. Just letting someone else take a crack at integrating them into the story would make everything smooth. Uh, they were shown running into the cave fleeing the First Order's walkers. They normally live outside. They are afraid of giant walkers and not people. What more did you need?
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Dec 19, 2017 20:19
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Yeah, but it’s just surreal in a silly way to spend like 10 minutes of the movie with a bunch of foxes sitting around in tense scenes. It’s not a dumb idea on the face of it, but just clumsy in a way a script doctor could maybe fix by introducing the idea more naturally.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:20
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Does anyone remember if the exposed kyber crystal in Anakin's lightsaber was split in two? Or was it just the hilt?
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Dec 19, 2017 20:23
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teagone posted:Does anyone remember if the exposed kyber crystal in Anakin's lightsaber was split in two? Or was it just the hilt? Appeared to be intact.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:25
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Like ideally my experience of watching a movie doesn’t feature me wondering why they wrote a bunch of foxes into the movie that just wander through all the shots and sit on consoles to be ignored by everyone until a character points out a plot function the foxes serve. It’s not that I don’t understand the plot reasons why foxes are there. The writing and presentation is just rickety in a way I found distracting because usually movies have little looped in dialogue tricks to smooth over stuff like that.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:26
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euphronius posted:Appeared to be intact. drat. Still holding out Rey fashions together a double bladed blue lightsaber in episode 9.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:30
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business hammocks posted:Like ideally my experience of watching a movie doesn’t feature me wondering why they wrote a bunch of foxes into the movie that just wander through all the shots and sit on consoles to be ignored by everyone until a character points out a plot function the foxes serve. In other words, you prefer movies to spell things out for you, rather than inferring things from what you see.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:30
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homullus posted:What was wrong with it that wasn't already the kind of thing routinely appearing in Star Wars? It was a Ticking Clock that too easily led the audience to think to themselves, wait, why don’t they just do X? Most Ticking Clocks are manufactured, but good ones don’t leave audiences scratching their heads. Episode IV’s “The “Death Star will be in range in three minutes” was wonderfully executed. Also: Get out of the trash compactor before it squishes us. Evacuate Hoth before the Empire takes control of the base. Blow up the shield generator before the rebel fleet is destroyed. Thanks for playing.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:30
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Animal chat animals are established to be connected to the force in a fundamental way and act as a symbol for the Force. Humans exploit their connection to the Force and animals for various ruinous ends that causes spiritual and universal disharmony. This is explicitly shown in the Casino town. The presence of animals (life) at the end in the mine with the dregs of the resistance thus serves as visual and symbolic shorthand for their spiritual and political connectedness to the force. There are no animals with the first order. Indeed they sit alone in a salt desert like undead mechanical carrion . euphronius fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 20:32
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Lincoln posted:It was a Ticking Clock that too easily led the audience to think to themselves, wait, why don’t they just do X? Most Ticking Clocks are manufactured, but good ones don’t leave audiences scratching their heads. Episode IV’s “The “Death Star will be in range in three minutes” was wonderfully executed. Condescension noted. I was wrongly inferring that you thought they could have done a better Ticking Clock with the major story elements as-written, rather than "entirely new script."
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Dec 19, 2017 20:35
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euphronius posted:Animal chat Porgs, too. Chewbacca roasting one, and to a lesser extent Luke spearing that space piranha, point to predation as part of the natural order distinct from the exploitation of the space horses - made explicit when Rey was meditating and she saw death, but then the Dark Side as a separate thing from that.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:35
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Bongo Bill posted:Porgs, too. Chewbacca roasting one, and to a lesser extent Luke spearing that space piranha, point to predation as part of the natural order distinct from the exploitation of the space horses - made explicit when Rey was meditating and she saw death, but then the Dark Side as a separate thing from that. Also the wonderful milking scene! The alien bird was so happy to be ethically used !!
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Dec 19, 2017 20:37
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euphronius posted:Also the wonderful milking scene! The alien bird was so happy to be ethically used !! can't believe we finally got fully exposed bare titty in Star Wars
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Dec 19, 2017 20:42
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Regarding the salt foxes: I'm on board with what Euphronius is putting down, but they also found the structural fault that allowed the surviving Rebels to escape so...pretty plot important. Also, they lived there, so I dunno why anyone hiding out at the base would be perturbed by their presence in their natural habitat.
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Dec 19, 2017 20:58
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This movie is very enjoyable, and people are overreacting to that 'Mary Poppins' scene. She's a half-frozen old woman, shes not going to gingerly fly through the debris like Superman, man. I was more upset about the air-lock tbh.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:05
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It's like watching a movie set in New York and you complain that there isn't a B plot about why rats exist.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:05
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homullus posted:Condescension noted. I was wrongly inferring that you thought they could have done a better Ticking Clock with the major story elements as-written, rather than "entirely new script." That’s not the question you asked. You implied the ham-fisted Ticking Clock was normal for a Star Wars film, and I argued otherwise, with evidence. The condescension was an internet-argument reflex action. My apologies (for real). The casino planet storyline was written only as a way to get Boyega’s character involved, so they invented a Ticking Clock to give his quest some urgency. It could have been one of a number of different plot devices, but they chose one that doesn’t make a lot of sense from a logical sci-fi perspective. An “entirely new script” is definitely not required. Fill in the blank: “Finn and his sidekick have to accomplish their quest before __________ happens or the Resistance fleet will get blown up.” They just filled in the blank with something that is silly on its face. Staying ahead of light-speed starships? Fuel? it wasn’t a huge deal, as I could tell it was just a Ticking Clock, but it was the only thing besides “chrome dome” that pulled me out of the movie.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:35
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Yeah, every Star Wars movie has scenes where you see little bits of wildlife or other local color to set the scene that this is an alien world. That's what I assumed the foxes were until they became plot relevant. That was actually a bigger surprise than them just being in there for no reason other than it's cool.
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Dec 19, 2017 21:39
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Lord Hydronium posted:Re Luke: I think this post got lost in the discussion (at least I didn't see anyone else comment on it) but I loved this and agree 100% with this interpretation. I really loved how they handled Luke in this movie.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:00
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Choom Gangster posted:This movie is very enjoyable, and people are overreacting to that 'Mary Poppins' scene. But it also spoke to the bigger idea of Johnson opening up the imagination space for what exactly the force is and what it's capable of in this movie. The force feels like it's filled with infinite possibility when Yoda speaks about it in Empire, but it's really only ever used for space parkour in the prequels.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:20
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I know it long overstays its due, but I feel bad that the casino planet stuff is largely discussed as being worthless or worthless for Finn when it appeared to me that a lot of it was meant to round out Rose’s backstory and allow her to drive the action. The movie did seem dedicated to rounding out the ensemble with her so for her (especially as an Asian character who doesn’t practice martial arts) to basically be forgotten in these discussions is a little disheartening...
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Dec 19, 2017 22:21
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Yeah, the old Jedi were pretty narrow-minded about what they could do. If you got an issue with the particular appearance of that scene with Leia in it, just imagine she's pulling the ship to her, not the other way around and suddenly it's cooler.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:23
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Rose actually bothers to free the slaves. Take that Qui Gon!!
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Dec 19, 2017 22:23
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euphronius posted:Rose actually bothers to free the slaves. Take that Qui Gon!! They are promptly re-enslaved because Rose not only didn’t overturn the systemic issues but is unwilling to even allow allies to do what’s necessary in the fight to do so *sad trombone sound*
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Dec 19, 2017 22:34
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Waffles Inc. posted:They are promptly re-enslaved because Rose not only didn’t overturn the systemic issues but is unwilling to even allow allies to do what’s necessary in the fight to do so *sad trombone sound* The horses.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:35
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Waffles Inc. posted:They are promptly re-enslaved because Rose not only didn’t overturn the systemic issues but is unwilling to even allow allies to do what’s necessary in the fight to do so *sad trombone sound* that's not what happens at all
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Dec 19, 2017 22:35
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teagone posted:drat. Still holding out Rey fashions together a double bladed blue lightsaber in episode 9. I'd be totally down with this and in fact was hoping that's where things were going when she was practicing with her staff on Luke's island. She did seem a lot more proficient with her saber than in TFA, where she kept using an awkward looking rapier type stab (which would probably actually be really effective but they didn't really do a good job making it look good). Still I really liked all the cool new melee weapons the First Order and the Emperor's Guard used. I think Rey making a sweet light saber spear would be the coolest as far as giving Rey a unique and effective fighting style.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:36
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I'd be down for her taking Kylo on with nothing but her staff. The moment where he swings down and her staff actually deflects his blade because of force magic I'll applaud while they internet tears itself apart.
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Dec 19, 2017 22:52
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Martman posted:The prequels are like the Crusades or something. Like, "Wow, it turns out Christians totally suck." Well, yeah, a lot of them have sucked throughout history. But that doesn't mean the ideas behind the religion are bad. Does this mean that Order 66 was the equivalent of the 1204 Latin sack of Constantinople?
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Dec 19, 2017 23:00
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Rey shows up with a cortosis weave staff and her new best friend resistance Thrawn with a backpack full of those snakes that bar the force not work. But then they all have to team up when a bunch of Yuuzahn Vong show up, and they find The Jedi Exile and Revan frozen in Carbonite and free then to help in the battle. A wormhole opens and a single runabout flies through. Sisko proclaims "Just where the hell are we Dax?" They are hailed by Terra venture "You are in the Lost Galaxy. We and the inhabitants here are under assault by Trakeena and her army of Sting Wingers"
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Dec 19, 2017 23:01
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One of the movies Johnson listed as in influence was Three Outlaw Samurai. Looking back now, I can see what he was talking about. Highly recommended for anyone interested. Basically Some well intentioned and not well intentioned samurai try to do what they feel is right but it blows up in their face. Their selfish desires and those of the people they try to protect just end up making things worse.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:08
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Rey shows up with a cortosis weave staff and her new best friend resistance Thrawn with a backpack full of those snakes that bar the force not work. But then they all have to team up when a bunch of Yuuzahn Vong show up, and they find The Jedi Exile and Revan frozen in Carbonite and free then to help in the battle. Ready Player One is already coming
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Dec 19, 2017 23:09
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Teek posted:One of the movies Johnson listed as in influence was Three Outlaw Samurai. Looking back now, I can see what he was talking about. Highly recommended for anyone interested. Basically Some well intentioned and not well intentioned samurai try to do what they feel is right but it blows up in their face. Their selfish desires and those of the people they try to protect just end up making things worse. Sounds interesting but is the writing and plot a mess like TLJ or not?
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Dec 19, 2017 23:29
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It's a simple plot with complex motivations and outcomes. Take that as you will. Alternately it's also slow and deliberately paced with a plot which zigs when you expect a zag. Teek fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 23:32
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CODChimera posted:Sounds interesting but is the writing and plot a mess like TLJ or not? TLJ is not a mess, its about a messy situation.
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Dec 19, 2017 23:32
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Rey shows up with a cortosis weave staff and her new best friend resistance Thrawn with a backpack full of those snakes that bar the force not work. But then they all have to team up when a bunch of Yuuzahn Vong show up, and they find The Jedi Exile and Revan frozen in Carbonite and free then to help in the battle. P.S. They're called ysalamiri you ignoramus !!
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Dec 19, 2017 23:34
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Teek posted:It's a simple plot with complex motivations and outcomes. Take that as you will. I think you'll find that it zigs when it SHOULD have zagged because I expected it to zag therefore 3 samurai is A MESS. 
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Dec 19, 2017 23:42
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Lord Krangdar posted:TLJ is not a mess, its about a messy situation. Nope it's a mess.
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Dec 20, 2017 00:29
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