|
even a cursory reading on wikipedia shows that olmert wasn't in a position to actually make good on his offer Nameless_Steve posted:Who loving cares? indeed 
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 02:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 15:57 |
|
|
"lol who cares if I'm lying or not?" - someone you should take seriously
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 03:10
|
|
|
Ze Pollack posted:saying ethnic cleansing in the name of Israel is bad is now respectability politics, you heard it here first folks  Ethnic cleansing is wrong. In 1948, Haganah cleared out a number of Palestinian villages that had given them no trouble, and that was wrong. It was a war of numerous atrocities. Palestinians in refugee camps should be resettled and/or paid reparations. Anything else I should say, that we all already know and probably agree about? Let me think.
Al-Saqr posted:While Israel Trots out it's women to promote colonialism and apartheid racism, let's have a look at an actually brave and strong female role model:- What she's describing is goddamn child abuse. The Tamimis are notorious for it. Attacking soldiers, grabbing their guns... Good thing the IDF aren't as bad as American police, or the police in nearly any other country, or they wouldn't be mini-celebrities; they would all be dead by now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vifoE_jki5M You can see more of such parenting in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKkCgpKk4SI
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 03:49
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:Who the gently caress cares if I'm lying? nah man you've already admitted you dont give a poo poo about telling the truth or not so I'm not gonna bother. I can argue with someone who's misinformed, propagandized and delusional, but I'm not gonna waste time on a paid liar. get yourself something nice with that holiday bonus they're giving you. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Dec 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 03:56
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:Since when have antizionists cared about unfair labels? You're being so apartheid right now. Nameless_Steve posted:Who loving cares? Nameless_Steve posted:
 Oh, and by the way, MEMRI is notorious for a) deliberate mistranslations that make the clip seem much worse than it actually is and b) being a literal propaganda organization run by intelligence officers and staffed by a who's who of radical conservatives and neocons
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 04:41
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:
"MEMRI's obsessive interest in protecting Israel derives from the people and interests that founded, fund and manage the institute's international operations. It was founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israel Defense Forces (Intelligence Branch) from 1968 until 1988, acting head of civil administration in the West Bank from 1977 to 1982; and Israeli-born Meyrav Wurmser, an extreme rightwing neoconservative now affiliated with the Hudson Institute. Meyrav is married to David Wurmser, at one time an American Enterprise Institute "scholar" and then a State Department apparatchik under John Bolton. Both participated in the collective writing of "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm," a seminal 1996 neocon document that advocated an end to negotiations with the Palestinians and permanent war against the Arab world. They also worked with Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Richard Perle and other rightwing ideologues who promoted and embellished the fiction that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11." [...] "Ken Livingstone, mayor of London, accuses them of "outright distortion," and former CIA case officer Vince Cannistraro has written that "they (MEMRI) are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud." With characteristic bluntness. Norman Finkelstein has written: "MEMRI is a main arm of Israeli propaganda. Although widely used in the mainstream media as a source of information on the Arab world, it is as trustworthy as Julius Streicher's Der Sturmer was on the Jewish world." (Der Sturmer was a rabidly anti-Semitic newspaper, and Streicher a notoriously cruel Nazi.) In an e-mail to InFocus, Cole characterized MEMRI as "a Right-Zionist propaganda organ, which usually does its propaganda unobtrusively, by being very selective in what it translates." Indeed , MEMRI appears to view the Arab world as a malevolent, mind-numbing monsters' ball, populated almost exclusively by fanatics, freaks and fundamentalists. Every story that could possibly make Middle Eastern people look deranged, hateful or diabolical gets translated; anything that could make them look informed, talented or admirable is ignored."
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 04:46
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:Attacking soldiers, grabbing their guns... Good thing the IDF aren't as bad as American police, or the police in nearly any other country, or they wouldn't be mini-celebrities; they would all be dead by now. "Really, they should just be thankful for not receiving an extrajudicial execution on the spot!"
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 04:47
|
|
|
Holy loving poo poo, this is a Rense article. You're citing RENSE! The biggest Holocaust denial website on the internet! This site is an Alex Jones-level source of crackpot nonsense and outright lies, coupled with extremely high-key antisemitism. (No wonder it quotes Ken "Zionists are the real Nazis" Livingstone and Norman "Holocaust industry" Finkelstein) And you're telling me MEMRI is propaganda while you're citing loving R E N S E ?!?
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 05:14
|
|
|
Finkelstein is legit, albeit crazy. MEMRI is well known as an Israel-founded agency.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 05:29
|
|
|
MEMRI is dumb and so is Max Blumenthal who does the exact same thing.FreshlyShaven posted:No self-respecting nation would allow itself to be colonized and any colonizing power which treats the natives with contempt and racism (ie, any colonizing power) is going to provoke backlash and hatred not just at the organization itself but also at the people (be they Europeans, Americans, Japanese, whites or Jews) associated with that colonial enterprise. It also leaves out the fact that in the early stages of the ethnic cleansing in 47/48, cities and villages with peaceful coexistence between Jews and Muslims and Christians (like Lydda or Haifa) were considered priority targets, precisely in order to sabotage any kind of cross-religion solidarity. Lod wasn't ethnically cleansed to sabotage solidarity, it was because Ben Gurion saw them as a security threat being so close to Jerusalem. I don't recall anyone suggesting that was the reason for the Battle of Haifa, it was purely tactical. Obviously what happened at Lod and similar events were disgusting, but your claims of intentionality here are not warranted. My recollection of Morris was tiny villages like Deir Yassin for propaganda early on (which did spur an exodus elsewhere), massive fighting like Haifa for tactical objectives (which undoubtedly leaves a ton of refugees), and Ramla/Lod at the end for security reasons. Your implication here that a state shouldn't have sufficient protections for minorities is pretty gross. It doesn't excuse at all what happened in any way, but it explains what happened in Lod. I don't think there's nearly as much ethnic cleansing by Israelis if they weren't dead convinced (and clearly evidenced by Hebron and Jerusalem) that the goal of the invading armies was ethnic cleansing. quote:What? For one thing, allowing people to return to their homeland isn't an "invasion" or a military assault (and your conflation of the two certainly says a lot about you); it's an act of basic decency and is demanded by international law. The Palestinians don't want to massacre or expel or attack their Jewish neighbors; they want recognition that they were victims of a crime and they want to return home, begin farming their fields or searching for work, contribute to their neighborhood and nation and otherwise be a member of society. They are not thirsting for Jew blood; they're thirsting to see the graves of their ancestors, to see where they were born and to live peacefully as equal citizens. This was both made logistically impossible by the mass ethnic cleansing of Mizrahim post-1948 (and I hope everyone who apologizes for that dies painfully), and by the very real perceived threat Israelis still face. Jews have known nothing in their history but being the victims of repeated ethnic cleansing and mass murder. It's a tragedy that psychological trauma ends up hurting Palestinians, but overcoming that would be a herculean effort, and it's certainly not going to go away when loving Mahmoud Abbas of all people is citing Quranic verses criticizing Jews and their claim to Israel and Jerusalem, when "Free Palestine from the River to the Sea" (which is hard to interpret in any way other than a demand for mass ethnic cleansing) is a wide refrain, even if it's just empty chest beating. There's only one way that will be interpreted. edit: and needless to say, Hamas on cue: quote:Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh vowed never to relinquish Jerusalem. “And I don’t mean East Jerusalem, but unified Jerusalem,” he said, in footage screened by Israel’s Channel 10. “Not East Jerusalem and not West Jerusalem. Muslim. Muslim.” There's also the fact that there are a wide example of recent precedents where no, refugees did not and never will return. That's not how these things work in practice. There's a partition where both sides have to make extremely painful concessions. There's no scenario where this maximalist demand of not only getting a state in the West Bank and Gaza, but also a majority in Israel itself will ever happen, and stupidly focusing on that makes it that much harder to end the occupation, remove settlements, and get any state at all in the first place. It perpetuates the notion that the status quo can be maintained forever. emanresu tnuocca posted:Palestinians are as much (if not more) descendents of the ancient judeans, and they never lost their claims to their own homes just because some of them chose to convert to Islam. No doubt this is the pattern that repeats throughout history, e.g. Turks are largely indistinguishable from Greeks. However, that's not hard evidence of any specific individual's genetics given all the mass massacres and immigration. Anyway, who gives a poo poo if your great great grandfather married a Polish convert? The overwhelming majority of evidence from genetic testing shows that Ashkenazim have close genetic ties to other Middle Eastern populations, and there's strong historical evidence (including gigantic founder effects) that they were really isolated from other European communities for centuries. This shouldn't be a genetic argument though. Whatever horrible massacres in the past happened. What should matter is the most practical path forward in 2017. That's why any deal is going to include land swaps for annexing some settlements and not many refugees being admitted. Kim Jong Il fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 05:40
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:
At least you're an honest lying Nazi, that's refreshing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
If the aim is a deal that protects settlements which are "old enough" that just gives Israel even more motive to push the deal out further and further so more and more settlements are old enough and Palestine is left with less and less land
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 07:28
|
|
|
Kim Jong Il posted:The overwhelming majority of evidence from genetic testing shows that Ashkenazim have close genetic ties to other Middle Eastern populations, and there's strong historical evidence (including gigantic founder effects) that they were really isolated from other European communities for centuries. No one has said they don't. Posters have merely refuted the racial myths hitler_steve is peddling about the Palestine people, myths that are conveniently identical to the myths the fash trot out to justify apartheid and genocide.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 07:40
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:Holy loving poo poo, this is a Rense article. You're citing RENSE! The biggest Holocaust denial website on the internet! This site is an Alex Jones-level source of crackpot nonsense and outright lies, coupled with extremely high-key antisemitism. (No wonder it quotes Ken "Zionists are the real Nazis" Livingstone and Norman "Holocaust industry" Finkelstein) The specific claims are easily verifiable, though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute quote:The institute was co-founded in 1998 by Yigal Carmon, a former Israeli military intelligence officer and Meyrav Wurmser, an Israeli-born American political scientist. quote:MEMRI's original mission statement read: "In its research, the institute puts emphasis on the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm quote:Former United States Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle was the "Study Group Leader," but the final report included ideas from Douglas Feith, James Colbert, Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Jonathan Torop, David Wurmser, Meyrav Wurmser, and IASPS president Robert Loewenberg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yigal_Carmon quote:Colonel in the Israeli defence force, IDF Intelligence from 1968–88 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyrav_Wurmser quote:She was formerly a Senior Fellow at the US think tank, the Hudson Institute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wurmser quote:He served as Middle East Adviser to former US Vice President Dick Cheney, as special assistant to John R. Bolton at the State Department and as a research fellow on the Middle East at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI). Then there are the Linvingstone and Finkelstein quotes, which I'm not gonna bother with, and the accusation of bias and selectivity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 12:00
|
|
|
The Holocaust industry is about people profiteering from the memory of the Holocaust, it has nothing to do with Holocaust denial jfc.
|
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 13:25
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ajplusarabi/status/941248585273827328 check out the literal cage full of children 15 seconds in. DTI. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Dec 16, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
The absolute loving worst thing about Memri is their insistence upon stamping every piece of propaganda / cartoon they post with a big Memri stamp. Not only is that the equivalent of 9gag or some poo poo putting their copyright all over material that clearly does not belong to them, but it also makes it impossible to actually repost that poo poo without "oh man, hasbara alert" popping up. You think I'd be used to Israelis going with the dumbest and most obviously counterproductive decision. And yet. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 14:26 on May 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Dec 16, 2017 18:19
|
|
|
Oh, okay, so you quoted a Nazi website, but that's okay because this particular Nazi article is correct? Then we should judge the MEMRI video I posted on the accuracy of its translation. I am not disputing their selection bias and pro-Israel agenda, but the vast majority of MEMRI's translations are accurate and when they're not there are a ton of people out there eager to correct them. The MEMRI video I linked, specifically, is accurately translated. (I speak Arabic well enough to know)
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:Oh, okay, so you quoted a Nazi website, but that's okay because this particular Nazi article is correct? you're comparing an interview with a single Palestinian to a state backed propaganda television station e: or rather I mean to say, if it's a right wing propaganda piece, why would anyone accept it as representative of anything? Nebalebadingdong fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Dec 17, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 02:01
|
|
|
Anyway, since you people are calling me a liar, it's time for another round of debunking. Main Paineframe posted:But what's even more important than you outright lying about the content of the deal is the fact that you omitted the context: at the time, Olmert was a lame duck who was under investigation, had already announced his imminent resignation, and was mere months away from handing control of the government over to Likud. Abbas walked away from the table in September. The Knesset elections were held in February. Olmert remained in power until March. He was not yet a "lame duck," since the elections had not yet been held. He did not know that Likud would form a winning coalition. And Olmert had 6 more months of control of the Knesset, regardless, to finalize the deal and initialize its implementation–– more than enough time. And either way, the signing of the treaty would have been a landmark decision that would have greatly improved the lives of Palestinians and been a step towards ending this conflict and their oppression. There was no good reason for Abbas to turn down this deal, and thus he undeniably bears partial responsibility for the continuing Occupation. emanresu tnuocca posted:The Holocaust industry is about people profiteering from the memory of the Holocaust, it has nothing to do with Holocaust denial jfc. The "profiteering from the memory of the Holocaust" is the mountains of books that have been written about the subject. Books. The "industry" is books. It isn't about selling merchandise. This isn't Star Wars, there are no limited edition holocaust action figures to sell. Holocaust deniers love that they can attribute the large body of work documenting the Holocaust to an "industry" perpetuated by greedy Jews looking for some coin and undeserved sympathy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 16:01
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:I didn't say it was, although it certainly is a term that has become a favorite of Holocaust deniers for their purposes, and they're delighted by the fact that a Jew coined it. They love them some tokenization. finkelstein's argument is about political concessions and financial gain through e.g. reparations payments that went to people who should not have been eligible, to the detriment of actual survivors. it's not about book sales.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 16:14
|
|
|
How is that any better?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 16:29
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:How is that any better? better than what?  i wasn't implying anything, i was correcting your misunderstanding of the term.
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 16:54
|
|
|
How about you know what Finkelstein is talking about before you start accusing him of stuff?
|
|
#
?
Dec 17, 2017 16:55
|
|
|
Nameless_Steve posted:Abbas walked away from the table in September. The Knesset elections were held in February. Olmert remained in power until March. Well, I know Steve's been probed, but just in case anyone was following along: Olmert announced his resignation in July and officially carried it out in September when his successor as head of Kadima was decided. While he remained interim PM during the elections, the only reason elections were held was because Kadima's support and popularity had dwindled to the point that his successor couldn't form a governing coalition. In September, Olmert no longer controlled the Knesset and certainly didn't have any legitimacy of his own. There's no way a real, credible deal could have been negotiated in those circumstances... ...especially when the favorite to win if it came to elections was Netanyahu, who infamously bragged about sabotaging the implementation of the Oslo Accords. If he won - as, in fact, he did - any deal negotiated by Kadima wouldn't be worth the paper it was printed on.
|
|
#
?
Dec 18, 2017 21:40
|
|
|
I think that Trump's decision to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel is a move that is long overdue. It is a welcome & refreshing change when there is a leader in the white house who knows what to do
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 01:39
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 01:41
|
|
|
thatsbait.gif
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
Even a broken clock spinning in a moral vacuum is right indeterminate superposition times and settling on a final answer as it's slowed by the aether. The hand simultaneously points to God and the fax on the ground. Where are (is) the hell dog(s)? Where are the Doom monsters from the other side of the gates of hell? The additional days of rage are more like additional waste of space, on the news feed, we read. What is Hamas even doing? Biding their time? Locked into petty infighting? The stabby guy had a fake suicide vest. They can afford suicidal martyrs more than a hardware store trip? The Vegas shooter was damned, but he was one man, able enough to take half a company of souls to the promised land. Ameri-can't? American. Post a comment on this webzone if you think the Palestinians have a plan to defeat the Jews. Maybe we just have to patient. They're up to something. That something is sucking. Jew is master race. Pally self, erase. Push button. Fake bomb genuine bullet.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
Seek help Avshalom.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 03:15
|
|
|
It is time to get a new gimmick.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 03:16
|
|
|
that's obviously not even avs
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 04:05
|
|
|
like, setting aside the fact that looking at the posters rap sheet and previous probation will give you this info, the prose is all wrong and the symbolic language is entirely different, plus avs never mentions the palestinians directly in her posts, only israel and judiasm.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
How could any of you believe that’s Avshalom what the hell I/P thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 04:28
|
|
|
Avs made many stylistic changes over time.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 04:39
|
|
|
GhostofJohnMuir posted:like, setting aside the fact that looking at the posters rap sheet and previous probation will give you this info, the prose is all wrong and the symbolic language is entirely different, plus avs never mentions the palestinians directly in her posts, only israel and judiasm. If they don't get Av's, they probably can't actually pick her style up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 04:53
|
|
|
Only the most sophisticated forums permabanned nutjob connoisseurs are welcome in this, the Internet Protocol Thread.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 05:47
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/943025337100840960
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2017 23:26
|
|
|
emanresu tnuocca posted:Seek help Avshalom. Hah, thank you!  I'll work to someday approach that standard.During the first month of the (second) Intifada, 141 Palestinians were killed and 5,984 were wounded while 12 Israelis were killed and 65 wounded. Wikipedia No gimmick, just concerned. When Sharon visited the temple in 2000, the violence in the first two weeks was much greater than now. Either Palestine is getting weaker or the Israeli status of Jerusalem has largely been accepted (despite bellicose words). I understand that it might take some time for the organized militants to plan operations, but police and protester casualties are still very low. Despite having differences of opinion, surely we can agree that Jerusalem normalization is bad for the thread. Maybe the best militants are still busy in Syria. ---- Someone asked why the USA gives aid to Israel and what they get; a theory. The USA bribes Egypt to play nice ($6 billion in 1979 and decreasing since), so they don't endanger the Suez Canal. Maybe they pay Israel for the same reason?
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 01:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 15:57 |
|
|
The only reasons the Tamimis aren't dragged into a camp and shot is because after all we strive to not forget and to never let it happen again.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 03:03
|
|
