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Virtue posted:Call me crazy but I don't think someone making 500k should be receiving government assistance. Have you not heard of government contractors or lobbyists?
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Dec 20, 2017 05:19
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baquerd posted:Have you not heard of government contractors or lobbyists? I think there are a couple of VA doctors that make more than the President.
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Dec 20, 2017 05:23
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Youth Decay posted:aww thanks
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Dec 20, 2017 06:53
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Youth Decay posted:aww thanks I would say that it is deceptive marketing, because duh, MLM. But I honestly would not at all doubt she is genuinely too dumb to have done the math, because duh, MLM. 
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Dec 20, 2017 07:46
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Krispy Wafer posted:I think there are a couple of VA doctors that make more than the President. There are a million people in the US who make more than the president.
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Dec 20, 2017 12:53
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Subjunctive posted:There are a million people in the US who make more than the president. Yeah, but Federal employees are supposed to make less. I think we were talking about dentist and poo poo who work for the government but now I'm not sure.
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Dec 20, 2017 13:17
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Youth Decay posted:aww thanks she's also barefoot in walmart 
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Dec 20, 2017 13:46
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Krispy Wafer posted:Yeah, but Federal employees are supposed to make less. . Is that a policy somewhere?
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Dec 20, 2017 14:04
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Virtue posted:Anyone going to explain why someone making 500k a year qualified for a government assisted repayment plan? Broadly speaking anybody who works for a nonprofit organization of almost any stripe except for organizations like PACs, including nonprofit hospitals, health systems, and medical practice groups organized with a nonprofit structure such as Kaiser, can qualify for public service loan forgiveness programs. Obviously it is a quirk of the law and intended function is not to grant loan forgiveness to high income professionals like doctors and lawyers.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:17
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Virtue posted:Call me crazy but I don't think someone making 500k should be receiving government assistance. You are absolutely correct, the public service loan forgiveness programs have morphed largely into six figure handouts for doctors and lawyers, particularly specialty physicians who can make a short end game run around the 10 year service requirement when 5-7 years of residency and fellowship training is included. However now that it is written into the promissory notes and people have organized their entire lives and careers around the promise of loan forgiveness, it would be unfair to change it retroactively. I suspect it is almost guaranteed to change in the near future to involve some kind of means testing or to exclude certain professions going forward.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:23
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Everyone gets government assistance. Less bootstraps libertarianism please. (Where I live, billionaires get free flu shots. As they should.) Subjunctive fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 14:26
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Krispy Wafer posted:I think there are a couple of VA doctors that make more than the President. I heard that is federal law that no government employee can make more than $400,000, the salary of the president. Even further this is broken down into a pay period limitation, which impacted some of our fellows while they were moonlighting at the VA. Physicians in the VA system may get around this by functioning as independent contractors or with part-time appointments between institutions (very common when VAs are located near academic centers) or it is possible that waivers exist for this purpose in the VA system. I am unaware of any doctor at our local VA that makes quite that much, the highest paid positions I'm aware of make around $330,000.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:26
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Subjunctive posted:There are a million people in the US who make more than the president. More than this president?  greazeball posted:she's also barefoot in walmart Flip-flops.
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Dec 20, 2017 14:35
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Virtue posted:Times like this make me wonder why insurance companies end up in the crosshairs whenever healthcare debate comes up. I’ve read that doctor labor costs are only 10 percent of healthcare costs on average, although personally I find that number hard to believe. It seems low. According to that number, even doing something as drastic as halving doctor pay would not greatly reduce healthcare costs. But yeah I’m just puzzled as you. It is more likely that everybody in the US healthcare system, and not just the health insurance companies, plays some role in driving up healthcare costs.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:10
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silence_kit posted:I’ve read that doctor labor costs are only 10 percent of healthcare costs on average, although personally I find that number hard to believe. It seems low. According to that number, even doing something as drastic as halving doctor pay would not greatly reduce healthcare costs. 10% is an approximately correct figure. Administrative expenses, facility and technology expenses, medications, testing expenses, etc. are larger drivers of cost in United States than physician compensation.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:23
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That 400k the President makes has got to be thought of as a server's $2.13/hr. Just the pay for the inconvenience of being there. And the tips are all the book deals and speeches they'll get to make for the rest of their lives.
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Dec 20, 2017 15:42
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Moneyball posted:That 400k the President makes has got to be thought of as a server's $2.13/hr. Just the pay for the inconvenience of being there. And the tips are all the book deals and speeches they'll get to make for the rest of their lives. And the prestige. Amex gave Jerry Ford $200k a year for sitting on their board.
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Dec 20, 2017 16:00
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silence_kit posted:I’ve read that doctor labor costs are only 10 percent of healthcare costs on average, although personally I find that number hard to believe. It seems low. According to that number, even doing something as drastic as halving doctor pay would not greatly reduce healthcare costs. Take a look at an itemized hospital bill if you can some time, things have ridiculous expenses. A single dose of aspirin in a little paper cup costs more than a full bottle. A plastic tub that costs $30 or $40 and has to be a brand new one for you. Single serve everything packaged in sterile environments. A portion of the cost is in all the fighting with insurance companies and their variable rates for the same procedures. Billing medical costs is costly in time and procedure, and the hospital has to find ways to bill that insurers will actually pay that keeps their doors open. A monetarily lossy procedure has to get the money made up somewhere else, which means having someone figure out where they can and how much to gouge something else, which means paying that person's salary. Drive-by billing is a grey area: a doctor who isn't providing primary care and isn't in network (thus doesn't have a negotiated rate with the insurer) will stop by and "consult" on a patient and then bill for their time. The cost of their billing and the care provided are billed, often landing directly on the customer. One could maybe claim this is a doctor labor cost, but it's more like the pathological institutional failure of medical payment in the U.S. It's a favorite talking point for conservatives because yay let's remove legal protections, but malpractice suits, the liability exposure and the resultant malpractice insurance are a huge cost. Most medical care professionals carry malpractice insurance individually in order to do their work, and you could argue that their paying that premium is their own personal expense out of their labor costs, but a malpractice suit doesn't fall solely on the medical professionals: hospitals can also be involved in such suits, also carry liability, also have to cover costs through insurance, and require the malpractice insurance specifically so they are not shouldering all the liability themselves. The economics of medical care in this country are seriously hosed, and I don't even have as good a perspective on it as EAT FASTER!! does.
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Dec 20, 2017 16:15
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silence_kit posted:I’ve read that doctor labor costs are only 10 percent of healthcare costs on average, although personally I find that number hard to believe. It seems low. According to that number, even doing something as drastic as halving doctor pay would not greatly reduce healthcare costs. Is that only doctors' pay paid out as straight salary, or does it include profits from doctor-owned practices?
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Dec 20, 2017 16:20
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Is that only doctors' pay paid out as straight salary, or does it include profits from doctor-owned practices? It is usually figured as physician payments for services rendered minus industry average overheads. But you are correct it can get complicated when there is physician capital ownership, the most important examples being outpatient surgical centers and imaging facilities.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:04
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Take a look at an itemized hospital bill if you can some time, things have ridiculous expenses. Malpractice liability is an important expense but not nearly as great as it is trumpeted by reformists. When United States conservative style tort reform is enacted, the usual winners are insurance companies who simply pay out less in litigation expenses and settlements. My liability insurance costs about $6000 a year. Depending upon your specialty and geographical area of practice you pay more or less than this. There are also knock on effects of practicing against the risk of a lawsuit, called defensive medicine, which are harder to measure although various estimates have been made. Again they are an important but relatively a small slice any very very large pile of US healthcare expenditures.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:09
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:Malpractice liability is an important expense but not nearly as great as it is trumpeted by reformists. When United States conservative style tort reform is enacted, the usual winners are insurance companies who simply pay out less in litigation expenses and settlements. My liability insurance costs about $6000 a year. What's your specialty, though? Anaesthesiologists' premiums are several times that (and they're a lot lower than they used to be). In some states/cities the premiums for general surgery or OB-GYN are pushing $200k. Neurosurgery premiums in New York can go over $300,000. And, surprise, states which have capped non-economic damages have far more moderate insurance rates than those who haven't. $6k sounds like a family practice premium.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:17
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Phanatic posted:What's your specialty, though? Anaesthesiologists' premiums are several times that (and they're a lot lower than they used to be). In some states/cities the premiums for general surgery or OB-GYN are pushing $200k. Neurosurgery premiums in New York can go over $300,000. And, surprise, states which have capped non-economic damages have far more moderate insurance rates than those who haven't. $6k sounds like a family practice premium. Radiology including procedures. $200,000 is pretty jaw-dropping but neurosurgery and OB are as high-risk as it gets in terms of devastating litigious outcomes. I would be surprised if there were true general practice general surgeons out there paying $200,000 but I have no numbers to support that impression. On the other hand neurosurgeons paying those kind of premiums are probably making $600,000-$1MM midcareer.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:41
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Firstly, the "bill" that you receive for services in a hospital is really nonsense. Healthcare billing is just a negotiation between insurance companies and individuals (woe be to you who doesn't have a payor!) but the line item billing is an absolutely preposterous holdover from the need to do line-item payments on a service that's really activity-based costing. They can't write "patient's share of the janitor's salary, patient's share of the hospital building's depreciation, patient's share of the need to keep the blood in the blood bank cold 24/7/365" on your bill so it ends up looking like a 400-1600% markup for things like a bag of salt water. But yes, that bag of salt water IS actually $25 to start with, because it has to be made with the strictest standards of cleanliness or else you'll die. So it looks like $100 on your bill. $8 for a band-aid, etc. Physician costs in healthcare are quite a small slice of the pie. The "knee replacement" in a knee replacement is about the same total cost as the rest of the labor in the operating room as it happens, if you look at things on a minute by minute basis. Physician reimbursement hasn't even kept pace with inflation, whereas administrator salaries, hospital reimbursements, health insurance premiums and drug prices have all gone absolutely bonkers. Granted, I'm a physician first but my long-term ambitions are more toward healthcare administration so I'm not really all that loyal to the idea of physician supremacy; their pay isn't the real inflationary factor, though. It's hard when you look and see someone is making half a million dollars a year (MORE THAN TEH PRESIDENT!) but there are some really good blog posts about the amount and degree that someone has to go into debt to make that kind of money. I don't think it's worth arguing though, it's an easy number to put a target on. Medical liability isn't nearly as much of an issue as it used to be because the real lucrative money isn't from doing some crazy poo poo that's likely to get you sued, it's from doing the same boring thing well 8-10 times a day. Anesthesiology malpractice averages only 21k. (I'm an anesthesiologist but in academic practice) because there's been a 100x reduction in general anesthetic morbidity and mortality in the last 30 years.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:44
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"Getting sick or hurt is extremely bad with money" is the message I'm hearing here.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:04
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But what's bwm?
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Dec 20, 2017 18:04
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BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:I heard that is federal law that no government employee can make more than $400,000, the salary of the president. Even further this is broken down into a pay period limitation, which impacted some of our fellows while they were moonlighting at the VA. Physicians in the VA system may get around this by functioning as independent contractors or with part-time appointments between institutions (very common when VAs are located near academic centers) or it is possible that waivers exist for this purpose in the VA system. I am unaware of any doctor at our local VA that makes quite that much, the highest paid positions I'm aware of make around $330,000. I think there are literally like 2 VA doctors who make more than the President. That wouldn’t be outside contracting, but their actual pay from the federal government. My guess is they were already maxed out but then have secondary administrative duties or roles that knock their pay up past the President. Here we go, I found the article: https://www.moneytalksnews.com/10-public-employees-who-make-more-money-than-the-president/ quote:Dr. Thomas Burdon, surgeon, VA Palo Alto Health Care System in California: $402,462 Obviously it’s not a lot more and they could probably do better in the private sector, but you know they mention they make more than the Trump at dinner parties.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:10
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Midjack posted:"Getting sick or hurt is extremely bad with money" is the message I'm hearing here. Can confirm.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:12
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Midjack posted:"Getting sick or hurt is extremely bad with money" is the message I'm hearing here. The hundreds of thousands of people declaring bankruptcy each year because of medical bills would agree with you.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:49
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The ultimate gwm healthcare plan (credit to Alan Grayson):
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Dec 20, 2017 19:32
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Doc Hawkins posted:The ultimate gwm healthcare plan (credit to Alan Grayson): The NRA healthgun plan: Rifle.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:38
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https://www.gofundme.com/help-norman-the-scooter-dog Gofundme is basically cheating for BWM, but come on: quote:As most of you know, he was supposed to go home on October 13th, but because he has not been making platelets yet he has had to stay and receive frequent transfusions sometimes daily. With this complication has come a cost of $1600 a day plus hospital fees, so I am going to raise his goal amount to 68k. I know his bills are way more than that, but I feel bad asking more of people. GWM if you can get other people to pay it for you I guess.
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Dec 20, 2017 20:55
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Krispy Wafer posted:I think there are literally like 2 VA doctors who make more than the President. That wouldn’t be outside contracting, but their actual pay from the federal government. palo alto, land of the $15 sandwich pittsburg, land of the $100k house
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Dec 20, 2017 21:02
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Krispy Wafer posted:I think there are literally like 2 VA doctors who make more than the President. That wouldn’t be outside contracting, but their actual pay from the federal government. President gets additional benefits that push compensation above $400k -- $50k expense account, $100k travel account, and $19k entertainment account.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:06
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Barry posted:https://www.gofundme.com/help-norman-the-scooter-dog I clicked on this thinking it was a for some poor kid....holy poo poo
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Dec 20, 2017 21:07
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Pompous Rhombus posted:$100k travel account lol
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Dec 20, 2017 21:22
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Pompous Rhombus posted:President gets additional benefits that push compensation above $400k -- $50k expense account, $100k travel account, and $19k entertainment account. Also I hear rent is pretty reasonable
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Dec 20, 2017 21:25
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Sirotan posted:I clicked on this thinking it was a for some poor kid....holy poo poo lol same.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:26
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Sirotan posted:I clicked on this thinking it was a for some poor kid....holy poo poo Let's see, we can raise money to try to extend a dog's life for maybe 6 months, or we can feed and house like four homeless people for a year. Money well spent I say.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:29
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Senor Dog posted:Also I hear rent is pretty reasonable Plus any time he wants to give himself another million or two, he just plans a trip to one of his resorts and charges the secret service detail to stay there. He charges the secret service rent on their space in trump tower in New York, too.
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Dec 20, 2017 21:31
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