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Heithinn Grasida posted:
Nice post Heithinn. I agree with mostly everything you wrote. It's obvious that you care about this dumb little game a lot, like the rest of us, and that's why we post on this dead comedy forum for a game about stabbing mummies and blowing up clowns. I sincerely hope Floodkiller is able to make progress with the fork and we can help him because with a little bit of effort and focus we can go back to getting hopeful for changes in this game and with any luck maybe others will start to pay attention too.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:32
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I agree with pretty much all of that. I feel, about the last part, that it is possible to be clear about things that may not be immediately intuitive; book amnesia is fine, for instance, as long as the books tell you about it! (This is different from being unnecessarily overcomplicated, which is still bad - book amnesia is pretty straightforward once you know about it as a concept.)Heithinn Grasida posted:I don't think any dev would make this comment today, and that's why I think today's devs suck. Out of sheer interest, which commit was that for? Prism fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 17:34
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redneck nazgul posted:I've always thought Oka needed something vaguely interesting and I remember ideas to spruce him up getting shot down a long while back. i've always been of the opinion that okawaru needs more emphasis on actually being a god of battle, in the form of being able to directly challenge single enemies by taunting them and locking yourself into combat with them until one or the other dies/whatever in return for cool rewards or buffs or whatever the hell honestly i just hate okawaru as-is. what a lovely, anemic interpretation of what's supposed to be a god of combat.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:43
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Johnny Joestar posted:i've always been of the opinion that okawaru needs more emphasis on actually being a god of battle, in the form of being able to directly challenge single enemies by taunting them and locking yourself into combat with them until one or the other dies/whatever in return for cool rewards or buffs or whatever the hell I'm also okay with Oka getting a serious rewrite: I figured reworking the gift was the easier hurdle to propose.
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Dec 20, 2017 17:57
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Tying taunting to Oka's active buffs would be cool. Like, you could have "Challenge" as an active ability, which taunts 1 enemy. You gain skill boosts ala heroism, and bigger skill boosts the stronger the enemy is. If you move away from the enemy or don't damage them for a long enough period of time, you lose the buff and gain Weak debuff due to cowardice. Then maybe finesse could be something like... I would say challenging all enemies, but implementing "don't move away from enemies in multiple different directions" would be clunky. So instead, it could just give yourself Mark status(effectively challenging the whole floor), and then an attack speed buff tied to all enemies in LoS(tension?)
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Dec 20, 2017 18:31
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Boulder Beetles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make me proud goons
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Dec 20, 2017 18:38
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I like the long posts. I also think if people wanna make crawl forks they should and do what the gently caress ever and post them here. To me, the game is a template and I love varients. It's like playing chess with different positions. Or like playing crawl sprint lol. Post your versions friends
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Dec 20, 2017 18:49
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Prism posted:Out of sheer interest, which commit was that for? This one which is one of my favorite things to bring up as a cudgel to beat the devs in this thread. Johnny Joestar posted:i've always been of the opinion that okawaru needs more emphasis on actually being a god of battle, in the form of being able to directly challenge single enemies by taunting them and locking yourself into combat with them until one or the other dies/whatever in return for cool rewards or buffs or whatever the hell I agree from a flavor perspective that Okawaru is lacking. The old argument is that Oka is about winning by any means possible, while TSO is about honorable combat. But neither feels satisfying in that role. On the other hand, as simply a god of making you good at melee while not making you better or worse at casting, Okawaru works pretty well. It's non-intrusive and doesn't change the way the game is played, while just making you better at what you were already doing. Hellcrawl takes this to the next step by making Heroism a piety dependent passive, which is actually a great idea because the general wisdom is to always be using heroism in every big fight anyway. Of course, if you're like me and don't play optimally, or if you play a stabber that couldn't realistically use heroism all the time for the stealth and shortblades boost, it makes wacky uncle Oka feel OP as gently caress.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:51
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Random mutation idea: Magnetic Antipathy - When an enemy in LOS moves towards you, it (sometimes/frequently/always) teleports right next to you instead. Seems like it would be an interestingly mixed bag (more beneficial for melee on the whole, but also makes it harder for them to break LOS on things like smiters) random idea2: Distortion Nexus - Player has a (rare/occasional/frequent) chance to teleport/blink all enemies in LOS to a random location that is still in LOS. Sort of a reverse Teleportitis (of the old kind). Ugly John fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 18:56
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Heithinn Grasida posted:This one which is one of my favorite things to bring up as a cudgel to beat the devs in this thread. Ah yes. That particular effect was removed, IIRC. Encouraging players to do cool things wasn't desireable.
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Dec 20, 2017 18:58
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Another thing before I forgot, bring back sheeps baaing balefully and their interaction with sticky flame. 
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Dec 20, 2017 19:01
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Turn boulder beetles into boulder crabs
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Dec 20, 2017 19:03
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The crab meme is tired and stupid. Let's just fix the game and maybe work on extended...
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Dec 20, 2017 19:04
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World Famous W posted:Another thing before I forgot, bring back sheeps baaing balefully and their interaction with sticky flame. Less hilarious, it's only a matter of time before he gets cut from the main game.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:10
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I added comments to the existing list, and I'll get around to adding missing ideas (and comments) later today. The comments hopefully give a good example about feature request difficulty and likelihood of doing them soon versus later. Feel free to tackle any of the design issues I pointed out in the comments to speed things up. I'll look into the wiki permissions for GitHub to open up pages for them for editing. I still need to get together a polling spreadsheet (or something similar) for yes/no counts before I start implementing stuff. If someone else wants to set one up, feel free. Otherwise, I'll put one together later today as well. E:vvv I'll look into it, thanks! Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Dec 20, 2017 |
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Dec 20, 2017 19:25
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Google Polls is great for that, you can export the results directly into a spreadsheet and it'll keep it updated.
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Dec 20, 2017 19:27
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Give Okawaru the original WJC passive of increasing your crosstraining as a growing-in-effectiveness passive instead of Heroism. You wanna worship the Warmaster, you become a master of arms. It makes Grandpa Oka cleaning out his attic and gifting you random-rear end weapons actually useful, as you could probably use anything he grants with effectiveness. f you're curious as to how that might feel, play a Gnoll or Kobold of Okawaru on Hellcrawl (Hellcrawl Oka makes Heroism a passive that grows up to the +5 to everything, so you'll eventually be rocking 14+ in everything)
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Dec 20, 2017 20:10
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I don't disagree with a word of this, it sums it up perfectly. Particularly the fluff part. I can remember the exact moment I had a twinge of 'why do that' in a new version, and it was even before Mountain Dwarfs went - 0.8, when they removed Paladins. That was the first time I was regularly playing this game, and something, an entire background, was removed because it was felt it was unnecessary. I can still remember thinking - surely it's better to give a player more choices than less? Part of the charm of DCSS to me was the sheer variety of roles and races available. Sure, paladin didn't impact the game a lot - similar equipment to a fighter, and you started worshipping TSO. You could pick up TSO in the first few levels, likewise equipment. But it gave an indefinable feel to that playthrough. Same deal with Death Knights - why forbid players from starting worshipping Yred? Why remove something that isn't actually hurting the flow of the game any? It's not always been the case, and when it's not, and something's removed, it's because some thought has gone into what replaces it - the best example of this would be crusaders were replaced with Skalds - it added a ton of flavour to the class. To paraphrase Internet Kraken as well, if you''re going to remove something because it's a no-brainer, like rMut, and promise sweeping reforms to malmute and why you'd want an amulet of rMut in the first place, follow up on it. Don't leave hell effects a character-breaking mess with no way to counter them. If you're going to remove a crutch from a character's play, make sure their broken leg is fixed first. So there you go, that's my (not very) big design philosophy contribution - if you're considering if something should be removed, first ask 'is the game better without it? Is the game practically exactly the same with or without it, but now I have 19 options instead of 20?'. Or even, 'If I'm going to remove this, what cool thing should replace it?''
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Dec 20, 2017 20:50
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I'm probably one of the biggest nay-sayers and grumbly old men when it comes to removals,(Still salty about item destruction gone), but I did not cry when paladins went away. I played a lot of them when I started out, and boy did I die a lot. I don't miss them, as despite being a super-cool idea, it's actually a newbie trap as TSO is an actively harmful early game choice. You get a laundry list of conducts for literally no benefit other than sInv at melee range after a few levels. Maybe if TSO where different, or the background gave you other gods, but meh. quibbles. Related, I'm actually quite happy that warriors now start with superior equipment, it's both fluffy and a QoL improvement.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:19
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Feature request: Donald
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Dec 20, 2017 23:23
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Oh, one more thing for gooncrawl in my list of things I want. Can we get Virulence as a player caster spell of some form as a lvl 7 or higher poison spell? Poison skill remains a trap to invest deeply in with its extreme fall off and I still think being able to strip everything but undead of poison resistance could extend the life of the other spells. Know you were saying reversing removals or what not, but always been something I personally wanted.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:28
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Heithinn Grasida posted:Certainly it's necessary for the game to prevent abusive play to an extent. If it confers such such an advantage compared the tedium of performing it that players feel it isn't a choice, it needs to be removed. But if Duvessa is the only person who would ever even conceive of doing it, it shouldn't be removed. I should mention that Duvessa/Minmay has played more scumming mummies than the entire thread put together  (see learndb: xomscumming)Great and well thought out post by the way. I take it back, purple chunks would never be something I would ever bother with, since ignoring it is 'optimal', but I can see how the flavor would be missed.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:46
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I am Otis posted:The crab meme is tired and stupid. Let's just fix the game and maybe work on extended... Add the Crab of Eternal Torment, a unique that upon death drops the Book of Singularity and reverts to its natural form as a Mountain Dwarf.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:47
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Add the Crab of Eternal Torment, a unique that upon death drops the Book of Singularity and reverts to its natural form as a Mountain Dwarf. This only happens when you are playing as a High Elf or Boulder Beetle.
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Dec 20, 2017 23:48
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Feature Request: High Boulder Beetles 
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Dec 21, 2017 00:22
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Add a prompt every hour or so of play to ask if you're to tired/high to keep playing.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:26
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Oh hey I know what I want reverted: Remove sInv from entropy weavers.
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Dec 21, 2017 00:33
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Survey for the first batch of feature requests is located here: https://goo.gl/forms/dUNVjwRSWNHMQvvi2 I wrote this in the survey header, but I'll repeat here: this survey is only for gauging thread approval of specific features. It is not indicative of order of implementation or how complex a feature might be to (re-)implement/remove/rework. Anything that gets approval but requires work will need further discussion here or on the Gooncrawl wiki to flesh it out. If you screw anything up on your survey or want to change your answers, editing after submission is enabled (so make sure to save your survey link if you think you may need to make changes). Don't panic if you don't see your feature on this survey; I just wanted to start paring down the list a bit on the wiki page. I'll likely put your suggestion in the next survey. I'll pick out a list of features for first release after the survey gets enough votes. It will likely just be the easy stuff, to get an initial release out. I apologize in advance for anyone who stops recognizing 're-implement' as a word after this survey.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:00
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Floodkiller posted:Survey for the first batch of feature requests is located here: As much as it might suck, a "I don't know" option is a good addition. I don't know what sludge elves or mountain dwarves did, so I really can't provide good feedback on whether they should be in the game again. e: a+ on survey finish page
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Dec 21, 2017 01:05
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Can you rework it to let me not cast a vote on things I don't care about
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Dec 21, 2017 01:06
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I would prefer to have definitive answers, but I'll edit it to throw in an "I don't know/I don't care" for this survey. If there's enough decisive answers, I'll leave it in for future surveys, but if there are too many neutral answers I'll remove it (and run this survey again). If you already finished the survey, feel free to go back and change your answers.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:15
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cheetah7071 posted:Can you rework it to let me not cast a vote on things I don't care about Also, an idea I had while doing the survey: Make wands that copy scrolls/potions into something god-specific. Being able to recharge them is really the only thing that makes them different from scrolls, so that should feel special.
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Dec 21, 2017 01:16
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Add the Crab of Eternal Torment, a unique that upon death drops the Book of Singularity and reverts to its natural form as a Mountain Dwarf. Looks like we got a comedian... Let's make a clown race that has obvious traits such as big red nose to smell items, can use evokables more efficiently, has a honking nose features which stuns monsters with confuse, other clown stuff like extra summons via means of clown car I guess. Maybe a unicycle mutation which increases move speed. Just shooting from the hip, I don't know
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Dec 21, 2017 01:29
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I am Otis posted:Looks like we got a comedian... Let's make a clown race that has obvious traits such as big red nose to smell items, can use evokables more efficiently, has a honking nose features which stuns monsters with confuse, other clown stuff like extra summons via means of clown car I guess. Maybe a unicycle mutation which increases move speed. Just shooting from the hip, I don't know we already have jester class, automatically worships nemelex and is equipped with 6 throwing pies not making that up, it's still in the code somewhere
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Dec 21, 2017 01:46
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I am Otis posted:Looks like we got a comedian...
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Dec 21, 2017 01:46
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what was the point of sludge elves back in the day i don't really remember
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Dec 21, 2017 01:48
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I think they had good transmutation and unarmed apts
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Dec 21, 2017 01:50
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people used them with evaporate mostly
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Dec 21, 2017 01:54
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if SE comes back, make them transmutation easymode, give them +5 in Tm.
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Dec 21, 2017 02:03
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And -30% HP.
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Dec 21, 2017 02:12
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