|
Tender Bender posted:Throw me around jedi master Kylo got huge so he could send his unwanted ForceTwitter selfies, which /r/hotjedibabes assured him was the way to go.
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:37 |
|
|
Everybody had distractingly wide belts. Maybe it’s just because Adam Driver was shirtless in that scene, but that belt was huge. Hamill had one too.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
waffledoodle posted:I saw my third showing last night. It keeps getting better each time and I keep noticing neat little new things with each viewing. There was some cool visual foreshadowing that I caught last night for the first time and which I haven't seen anyone point out online yet: This just makes it more frustrating that they didn't reshoot to swap Leia and Holdo's endings. They could even have had the manoeuvring thrusters be damaged or something, so that she'd had to use her special Skywalker force powers to turn the ship around and aim it at the target (and so it's something no-one else could have done), and given Leia an ending that serves a purpose. Hopefully they'll do something interesting with her in IX - if she's written out like a wet fart I think people will be very disappointed.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 23:49
|
|
|
Really, I should just let Mark Hamill speak for me. It seems he's been going slightly off-script an awful lot lately: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIY-PsHrj9A He also, unprompted, praised the prequels for their use of CGI and said they were more original than TFA: quote:During my wide-ranging discussion with Mark Hamill to mark the release of The Last Jedi we touched upon a variety of Star Wars related topics, from "A New Hope" to his emotional return to the Millennium Falcon, while also finding room to talk about George Lucas, too. He says he wishes Disney had followed Lucas's outlines more closely: quote:As its creator and the writer and director of four of its first six installments, it is hard not to feel a little sad that George Lucas is no longer involved in the Star Wars series. Notice how his disclaimer is that they're "more popular than ever," not that he necessarily thinks they're good. It reminds me of his comment from a few years back after TFA came out: quote:“So because The Force Awakens made a lot of money, it’s not ‘ergo it’s good’. And though of course Leia does finally use the Force in this movie, it sounds like Leia's Jedi training was going to be a more integral part of Lucas's outlines, which Hamill seems to lament not being the case so far with these ones: quote:Sitting down with Rolling Stone while doing the press rounds for The Last Jedi, Hamill revealed an interesting tidbit regarding Lucas’ scrapped Star Wars: Episode VII, VIII, and IX, with regard to Leia’s Force sensitivity. Apparently, the saga’s creator wanted to further explore her ability to tap into it in, over the course of those films: It's really not hard to (barely) read between the lines and see that, despite his professional respect for Johnson and need to support the new movies, he kind of wishes he could have been in the movies based on George's outlines, which he did initially sign up for. Of course, obviously, just because a star has reservations doesn't mean he's automatically right. I'm just pointing out that if the man who embodies the character of Luke Skywalker more than anyone else (aside from George Lucas) can have these feelings, then maybe it isn't so petty and ridiculous for some fans to feel a similar way. Basically, this isn't a Luke Skywalker or a larger story that I can get behind, but I accept that this is basically a new Star Wars series completely disconnected from the old one and it's not for me anymore. Apparently the new Star Wars literally is for people who don't like Star Wars, or who at least want to be done with it as it was. (And that's not even a jab, since according to everyone that's actually what the movie is about? All those articles about TLJ saying "gently caress you" to George Lucas and "destroying" Star Wars and whatnot.)
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
I feel like another thread got into the cottage industry of A-list actors needing to get ripped to do nerd movies, and the combination of unsafe diets and even more unsafe HGH required to do that in the necessary time frame. Like "You're doing this too hard level 1" is Hugh Jackman not drinking water in order to get the proper Wolverine Comic Look in Wolverine Goes to Japan.
|
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
GATOS Y VATOS posted:I really, really loving hope JJ Abrams doesn't redact that Rey's parents are nobodies saying "Kylo Ren was lying! Ha ha! You really are space royalty, heir to the lost Jedi bloodline" or something, because making Star Wars about regular people stepping up to become heroes is far more interesting than the clamoring fanboy poo poo of saying that people HAVE to be connected to the Skywalker line or something. We had the Skywalker saga, it's time to move on while still acknowledging how important it was to the overall universe. That article somebody wrote about "Who the Broom Boy REALLY WAS" is the kind of bullshit that needs to loving go. The prequels made me pretty much completely leave SW fandom, and the Clone Wars series brought me back, because of the stories of Capt. Rex and crew, not more of the Space Wizards. Rogue One did the same for me. The galaxy is loving huge, and there's a lot of good stories to be told. He was said to be gushing about the script prior to the start of production, so I doubt there's going to be any serious retcons. Probably an easy bet that Phasma's going to come back, though. Cross-Section fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 20, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 20, 2017 23:57
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:Really, I should just let Mark Hamill speak for me. It seems he's been going slightly off-script an awful lot lately: I want to say there's some interviews out there where he seems to express surprise and disappointment with how Luke turned out, like he didn't know he was going to die/ascend/whatever ("They don't tell me everything", I think is the quote in response to a question on Luke's fate). He talks about having long discussions with Trevorrow about Luke and where the character was going and stuff like that. And I mean, given that he just sort of fades away, alone and isolated, it could have been entirely done in post. Hamill has said a lot of things that he's seemingly been forced by Disney to retract a few days later (like the stuff about how 'I disagree fundamentally with what you did with Luke, but I'll perform your script to the best of my ability') and he's also done things like leak the trailer date on Twitter -- which was deleted a day or two later. Their working relationship feels like it was a bit contentious and I have no doubt that, if it was, Hamill thought 'What're they going to do to me? I'm Luke Skywalker!' It's like how Lucas saying 'The fans will like TFA' or his thoughts on TLJ ('It's a well-made film') are pretty indicative of some misgivings, too. Not even touching on the 'white slavers' comment. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:12
|
|
|
I am really interested to just hear a summary of Lucas’ ideas for a new trilogy, and I think a summary would be better than having to sit through them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:13
|
|
|
Yeah, all of the comments I've read online to the effect of "this isn't your dad's Star Wars" I can't help but think really? poo poo, Episode 1 did that over a decade ago. I'm betting big that Leia adopts Rey or more likely gifts her the Skywalker name, getting the Pip treatment. That's why they're keeping the character around. I'm also pretty sure they're gonna extend this story into a tenth movie. My favorite moment was Leia reaching out to Kylo as he was going to pull the trigger. You can tell they had a connection, and you could see from Leia's expression she's overloading that connection with 100% unconditional love for her son. It's so vividly painted on her face. She has the look of a person trying to save their junkie family member they care for against all reason. Driver and Fisher really loving nailed it. I didn't spoiler that because it's trailer poo poo
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:16
|
|
|
I was disappointed that Luke's training wasn't a bigger part of the movie. Now I wonder how much actual Jedi-ing Rey will do.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:17
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:I want to say there's some interviews out there where he seems to express surprise and disappointment with how Luke turned out, like he didn't know he was going to die/ascend/whatever ("They don't tell me everything", I think is the quote in response to a question on Luke's fate). He talks about having long discussions with Trevorrow about Luke and where the character was going and stuff like that. And I mean, given that he just sort of fades away, it could have been entirely done in post. Hamill has said a lot of things that he's seemingly been forced by Disney to retract a few days later (like the stuff about how 'I disagree fundamentally with what you did with Luke, but I'll perform your script to the best of my ability') and he's also done things like leak the trailer date on Twitter -- which was deleted a day or two later. Their working relationship feels like it was a bit contentious. He’s a big dork and he approaches the movies like a big dork. I think he said about the last one that he was confused about why Luke didn’t show up at the end to beat Adam Driver and save everyone. But the thing with these movies is that there are no threads from the old movies to develop them from, so they pretty much have to go back on everything or just build entirely new poo poo just to have a movie. This Luke is an entirely different character because he’s in a totally different story. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Dec 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:18
|
|
|
GATOS Y VATOS posted:I really, really loving hope JJ Abrams doesn't redact that Rey's parents are nobodies saying "Kylo Ren was lying! Ha ha! You really are space royalty, heir to the lost Jedi bloodline" or something, because making Star Wars about regular people stepping up to become heroes is far more interesting than the clamoring fanboy poo poo of saying that people HAVE to be connected to the Skywalker line or something. We had the Skywalker saga, it's time to move on while still acknowledging how important it was to the overall universe. That article somebody wrote about "Who the Broom Boy REALLY WAS" is the kind of bullshit that needs to loving go. The prequels made me pretty much completely leave SW fandom, and the Clone Wars series brought me back, because of the stories of Capt. Rex and crew, not more of the Space Wizards. Rogue One did the same for me. The galaxy is loving huge, and there's a lot of good stories to be told. I liked that Star Wars was a family story about multiple generations of the Skywalker bloodline throughout galactic history, and I don't see how it's elitist or or "clamoring fanboy poo poo." It's a fairy tale. It's like the Norse sagas, or the Bible, or hell, even Tolkien or what-have-you. Bloodlines feature heavily in those things, as a metaphor for the historical continuity of the human race. That's just part of it. It's an allegory. The fact that the heroes all descend from one another symbolizes the fact that each new generation inherits the legacy of the prior one. Making the new hero a nobody connected to no lineage but the one she adopts just unnecessarily literalizes the metaphor to score some cheap point that doesn't even matter. Rey's journey to becoming a somebody is exactly the same as Luke's at the end of the day, only hers is intentionally reduced to the mundane while Luke's was elevated to the mythic. Again, it's an example of simplistically missing the point masquerading as edgy iconoclasm, like an atheist middle schooler smirking to himself as he places the Bible in the Fiction section at the local Barnes & Noble. I don't see why people have to turn this into some sort of political thing. As if George Lucas of all people was looking to scorn the institution of adoptive lineage by including the old mythic trope of bloodlines and genealogies in his modern day legend. The old films are still full of themes about adoption and non-traditional inheritance. Anakin has no true father but the Force itself, and so is "adopted" first by the cruel Watto, then by the caring Qui-Gon Jinn, then by the well-meaning but unready Obi-Wan, and ultimately by the evil Emperor, in the end forcing Vader to choose in which father's (or fathers') footsteps to follow. Luke and Leia are both adopted by loving families at the end of Episode III; Luke's adoptive family cradling him protectively as they look out to an anxious yet exhilaratingly expectant future serves as Lucas's emotional capstone to the series. (Luke of course then goes on to be adopted by various surrogate fathers who influence him on his journey.) Now, that said, the reveal about Rey in TLJ does work as a metaphor for obliterating the past, wiping the slate clean, and starting from scratch, which I guess is what the new movies are now ostensibly about, but I just disagree with that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:29
|
|
|
These stories shouldn't all be about Skywalkers because it makes the universe feel tiny and also because destiny is a terrible plot device always. I fundamentally disagree with the stance that Star Wars needs to be about one family because "old stories did it."
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:33
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:I'm just pointing out that if the man who embodies the character of Luke Skywalker more than anyone else (aside from George Lucas) can have these feelings, then maybe it isn't so petty and ridiculous for some fans to feel a similar way. While that may be the case elsewhere online, I don't think anyone here seriously thinks that. I'm no stranger to this sort of argument either; I loved what Snyder's Man of Steel did to The Superman. I personally loved how TLJ deconstructed Luke. You and Mark Hamill might not have, but I was super into it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:38
|
|
|
Bigger Luke confirmed as Jake Skywalker
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:43
|
|
|
I think it's interesting how some people seem to regard choices in the movie as a personal insult directed at them.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:44
|
|
|
I can't wait to watch the OT armed with the knowledge of what goes down in the sequels. Knowing all their struggles were for nothing and Luke had a part in getting Han Solo killed will no doubt enrich those movies. Luke Skywalker standing over his sleeping nephew and seriously contemplating killing him. Brilliant.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
Tender Bender posted:I think it's interesting how some people seem to regard choices in the movie as a personal insult directed at them. Fandom.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:45
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:Basically, this isn't a Luke Skywalker or a larger story that I can get behind, but I accept that this is basically a new Star Wars series completely disconnected from the old one and it's not for me anymore. Apparently the new Star Wars literally is for people who don't like Star Wars, or who at least want to be done with it as it was. (And that's not even a jab, since according to everyone that's actually what the movie is about? All those articles about TLJ saying "gently caress you" to George Lucas and "destroying" Star Wars and whatnot.) I love Star Wars and love this movie. It doesn't destroy star wars, it expands it, just as each previous movie did.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:49
|
|
|
I honestly cannot fathom as a viewer complaining that a person changed over a period of decades.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
Arist posted:I honestly cannot fathom as a viewer complaining that a person changed over a period of decades. They do it for Yoda.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:52
|
|
|
Yaws posted:Luke Skywalker standing over his sleeping nephew and seriously contemplating killing him. Brilliant. Luke was never actually going to go through with the action. The temptation was there like all things having to do with the dark side, sure, but he fought against it despite knowing full well there was no more light left in Ben. Luke knew before everyone else that there was so much darkness in Ben, and that he had the power right then and there to destroy that darkness. But he wouldn't do it. He couldn't. It was merely a fleeting moment of the weakness that all Skywalkers shared, and he overcame that but tragically it solidified Ben's descent into Kylo Ren. I loved all the perspectives of that particular scene.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
I think we all understand that thematically, but he unsheaths his sword- it strains credulity to imagine Luke getting that close to the brink after having ascended to a Zen-like passivity. It's also an explicit callback to Mace Windu attempting to assassinate the Emperor, which is just a weird parallel to draw because as Cnut says it implies that Luke is only marginally more prudent than his predecessors.Arist posted:I honestly cannot fathom as a viewer complaining that a person changed over a period of decades. Do you think Siddartha needs a sequel where he basically falls off the wagon for a while before getting back on it?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:02
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:I think we all understand that thematically, but he unsheaths his sword- it strains credulity to imagine Luke getting that close to the brink after having ascended to a Zen-like passivity. It's also an explicit callback to Mace Windu attempting to assassinate the Emperor, which is just a weird parallel to draw because as Cnut says it implies that Luke is only marginally more prudent than his predecessors. Why does it strain credulity? From Luke's perspective, this is the only chance he has to prevent everything from happening again. And your comparison is bullshit. Star Wars is explicitly about cycles and new generations fixing the mistakes of the old.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:10
|
|
|
Luke, who hacked his father's arm off in a fit of rage, would never lose his cool.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:17
|
|
|
teagone posted:Luke was never actually going to go through with the action. The temptation was there like all things having to do with the dark side, sure, but he fought against it despite knowing full well there was no more light left in Ben. Luke knew before everyone else that there was so much darkness in Ben, and that he had the power right then and there to destroy that darkness. But he wouldn't do it. He couldn't. It was merely a fleeting moment of the weakness that all Skywalkers shared, and he overcame that but tragically it solidified Ben's descent into Kylo Ren. Why would he even consider it though? He's been through this before. He successfully turned someone far more gone than teenaged Ben Solo. Did he forget? His massive failure got his friend killed and a new Empire to spring up. Kylo is completely justified in wanting Luke dead. I guess that's Lukes' legacy now. Not the hero that helped bring down the Empire but a failure of a person who evidently learned nothing between the OT and ST.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
Arist posted:Why does it strain credulity? From Luke's perspective, this is the only chance he has to prevent everything from happening again. Because most level-headed people don't try to murder children. Only Luke's father does that. Also you can't just say "cycles". Just because the plot moves in cycles doesn't mean that most characters in Star Wars don't have linear progressions. dont even fink about it posted:Luke, who hacked his father's arm off in a fit of rage, would never lose his cool. What happened directly after that? I can't remember. Like what is the point of telling these stories if each character is stuck in a cynical recursion? It's meaningless.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:20
|
|
|
It's too bad they don't do exit polling after people watch movies. It'd be interesting to see what demographics cause a person to lean "like" or "dislike". I feel like I like this movie almost exclusively because: - Went in with no expectations of it being anything better than an entertaining popcorn movie. - When Ren & Kylo teamed up briefly, I liked that they have the same end goal in mind– "let's end this constant fighting" but want to solve it different ways, Kylo by ruling everything and Ren by a method that wouldn't end with her friends dying. To me it was a clever little way of showing how even while neither of them could give a gently caress about "their side", there's an actual practical reason one of them has a red lightsaber and the other a blue. Though maybe I'm wrong! Maybe that wasn't what the film was going for. Regardless, viewing it that way made me like it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:23
|
|
|
He made the decision not to do it immediately. This is explicitly stated in the film. It was a moment of weakness in a traumatic moment, and he did not act on it, because as you point out he's better than that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:24
|
|
|
The World Inferno posted:It's too bad they don't do exit polling after people watch movies. It'd be interesting to see what demographics cause a person to lean "like" or "dislike". Their relationship is really cool because they're both being honest. They want to connect and bring the other over to their side. On first viewing I thought Kylo was doing the tricky villain thing, and when he and Rey touched hands he would be like psyche, now I know where you are, dummy! Instead he's like yea this is cool, let's hang out some more.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
The World Inferno posted:It's too bad they don't do exit polling after people watch movies. It'd be interesting to see what demographics cause a person to lean "like" or "dislike". I don't know if it's terribly detailed, but they do do exit polls for movies, its called CinemaScore. According to them, audiences gave TLJ an A. Although audiences also gave "Ferdinand" an A, so pinch of salt and all that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:Also you can't just say "cycles". Just because the plot moves in cycles doesn't mean that most characters in Star Wars don't have linear progressions. Here's the problem: You're pretending Luke's arc ended in ROTJ. This is the next phase of that progression: into the person who makes the mistakes the next generation has to clean up.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
Maybe Kylo is telling the truth. Maybe Luke had every intention of killing him.Arist posted:Here's the problem: You're pretending Luke's arc ended in ROTJ. This is the next phase of that progression: into the person who makes the mistakes the next generation has to clean up. He had his arc. Luke's story was told. This is regression.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:27
|
|
|
aware of dog posted:I don't know if it's terribly detailed, but they do do exit polls for movies, its called CinemaScore. According to them, audiences gave TLJ an A. I haven't seen it or anything but Ferdinand is apparently an okay movie Yaws posted:Maybe Kylo is telling the truth. Maybe Luke had every intention of killing him. Now you're just deliberately leaning into the least charitable possible reading of a film in order to justify your distaste with a specific element, which is dumb.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:28
|
|
|
Arist posted:Here's the problem: You're pretending Luke's arc ended in ROTJ. This is the next phase of that progression: into the person who makes the mistakes the next generation has to clean up. I reckon a lot of people took their bathroom break during the conversation between Luke and Yoda.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
Yaws posted:He had his arc. Luke's story was told. This is regression. It clearly wasn't told, because now this movie exists. And why can't a movie portray regression, especially for only the briefest of moments?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:31
|
|
|
Arist posted:Here's the problem: You're pretending Luke's arc ended in ROTJ. This is the next phase of that progression: into the person who makes the mistakes the next generation has to clean up. They have artistic license to do that. It clearly works for a lot of people. I think it's bad writing. A random person might be tempted in that kind of moment, but not the Luke from the end of ROTJ. The whole point of the "cycles" talk is that Luke is the person to break these types of cycles by espousing non-violence. He's Christ-like. You don't think maybe he'd first try to have a heart to heart with his nephew before beheading him?
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
Jewmanji posted:They have artistic license to do that. It clearly works for a lot of people. I think it's bad writing. A random person might be tempted in that kind of moment, but not the Luke from the end of ROTJ. The whole point of the "cycles" talk is that Luke is the person to break these types of cycles by espousing non-violence. He's Christ-like. You don't think maybe he'd first try to have a heart to heart with his nephew before beheading him? I think he would have, because the character looks into the camera and tells us that. It's funny you make the Christ comparison, because in Christian mythology Christ was tempted. Resisting the temptation is what counts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:42
|
|
|
Arist posted:It clearly wasn't told, because now this movie exists. And why can't a movie portray regression, especially for only the briefest of moments? What was so wrong with the simple optimistic ending in RotJ? Why do they need to ruin that? Everyone was fine with it for 35 loving years. The second it's out of Lucas' hands they undo everything in the OT. All the main characters are dead. The galaxy is in the same place it was at the beginning of a New Hope I get that this is all make believe and it doesn't matter. I just wish they would've left the OT alone.
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 22:37 |
|
|
Cnut the Great and Mark Hampell both agree that TLJ is "not my Luke Skywalker"
|
|
#
?
Dec 21, 2017 01:49
|
|
