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Top Gun posted:That's stupid though because the original film tried to be science accurate when possible. The labs shown in that film didn't have loving spinal cords in jars and poo poo. Agreed. The original JP has some of the best production design ever, and JW is much lazier on all fronts. But to be fair, the whole idea of the I-Rex as a horrible hybrid Franken-saur has to be reinforced visually somehow. One crucial thing about the "labs" in the original JP is that they're part of the guest experience - you slide past them on a ride. So they're not just fake in the sense that all movie sets are fake, but are highlighted as being artificial, radically simplified, and contrived within the film itself. Does that guy with the VR gloves and pointless visor stand there all day rotating a crude model of like a dozen base pairs? What could that possibly accomplish? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDTaykXudVI Genaro's question - "This is overwhelming John... are these characters, uh, auto, auto-erotica?" is perfect, because the whole show is essentially masturbatory. They may or may not be doing some actual work in the lab, but either way it's a performance designed around the egos of the scientists - the fantasy version of their work that they want to simultaneously inhabit and present to others as the full truth. In this fantasy lab, they're organized, careful, and use the latest tech responsibly. They know what they're doing and take full responsibility for their creations. Of course none of that turns out to be true - we didn't see the real lab. That's the essential idea Crichton ran with for TLW, for better or worse. I don't remember the context of that JW shot. Is it part of a "behind the scenes" type attraction where guests get to see the scientists at "work?" Or is it a "real" lab that the characters end up running through? Either way, the pickled anatomy recalls the lab scene in JP3, which takes place on Isla Sorna - the real lab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trPOKL7Nguo Which looks much more industrial, cold, and uncaring. Stillborn failure dinos floating in goo isn't something you want to show, but it is the messy reality of the process. So I'm sure the floating spines in JW have something to do with that too - trying to indicate the essential wrongness of what's being done.
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Dec 12, 2017 03:54
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Top Gun posted:That's stupid though because the original film tried to be science accurate when possible. The labs shown in that film didn't have loving spinal cords in jars and poo poo. We're supposed to think dinosaurs getting made is totally rad in Jurassic Park, in Jurassic World it's a lab dictated by marketing and corporate, so it having "mad science" visual shorthand makes sense.
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Dec 12, 2017 03:55
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Top Gun posted:No it’s correct. On Isla Nublar the animals were fed lysine in their diet. The idea being if InGen stopped giving them their prepared food they would die off because they wouldn’t be able to get lysine from any other source on the island. However what they found out on Isla Sorna was the herbivores were eating plants that were lysine rich. No, the dinosaurs are described as having been genetically engineered to be incapable of producing lysine on their own. That makes no sense, because you don't have to genetically engineer an animal to be incapable of producing lysine; that's just the way animals are. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 03:56
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I mean, in the case of an artificially created animal wouldn't you still have to make sure it does or does not do X thing when designing it?
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Dec 12, 2017 05:19
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Xenomrph posted:Oh poo poo, I totally forgot about that. The whole "the Indominus is part raptor and can therefore control them!!!" was some goofy poo poo, but we got to see a pack of raptors go totally apeshit on a bunch of redshirts so I'm pretty okay with it. Yeah, I was legit sad with the raptor getting gibbed though. Neo Rasa posted:We're supposed to think dinosaurs getting made is totally rad in Jurassic Park, in Jurassic World it's a lab dictated by marketing and corporate, so it having "mad science" visual shorthand makes sense. That's one hell of an excuse for terrible set-design. JP1 and 3 do a better job letting you know this without cramming it down your throat just because the film assumes you're dumb.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:47
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Neo Rasa posted:I mean, in the case of an artificially created animal wouldn't you still have to make sure it does or does not do X thing when designing it? Look, I don't want to harp on this too much, but this is an obvious case of Crichton just making a scientific goof. It doesn't actually matter, I was just pointing it out as a sort of interesting science fact. But it obviously has nothing to do with the InGen scientists not genetically engineering the dinosaurs into being miraculous lysine-producing animals, and for some bizarre reason describing it in a way that sounds nothing like that but exactly like they engineered them to be artificially deficient in some way. There's also the fact that the lysine contingency was specifically meant to prevent the spread of dinosaurs in the outside world, which even the shortsighted InGen scientists would have known would not work since, as stated before, exogenous sources of lysine are abundant in nature. The InGen scientists are arrogant and operate with a severe case of tunnel vision, but they don't lack basic scientific literacy. No matter how you try to explain the fact that the dinosaurs don't produce lysine, the contingency still doesn't make sense. But again, Crichton just made a goof. If I had to guess I'd say he mixed up the meanings of essential amino acids and non-essential amino acids. Non-essential (that is, nutritionally non-essential) amino acids are produced in the body and if your body doesn't produce enough for whatever reason and you don't adequately compensate through diet you'll eventually die. So I'm pretty sure that's what he was going for. Disclaimer: I'm not a nutritional scientist any more than Crichton is so I may have gotten something wrong.
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Dec 12, 2017 07:14
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Watching those videos of the original Jurassic Park reminded me how much I love its aesthetic. It really feels like a tacky theme park, everything there seems like something out of the real world and the only time you have to suspend disbelief is in the fact they have dinosaurs there. In Jurassic World the whole place felt like it belongs 10+ years in the future. The giant holograms, the gyrospheres, the overall CG shinyness of the place all seem unreal, and so the impact of the dinosaurs is less.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:15
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Yeah it’s kind of brilliant that everyone gets stranded at the T-Rex paddock because their badass dinosaur safari vehicles are actually just electric jeeps running along an automated circuit. Chricton got a lot of stuff wrong but what he 100% nailed in JP was the commoditization of science for tacky entertainment. Jurassic World completely misses the mark by suggesting that the park wasn’t doomed from the start and would have worked perfectly fine if not for one meddlesome Dino.
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Dec 13, 2017 13:51
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Cnut the Great posted:Look, I don't want to harp on this too much, but this is an obvious case of Crichton just making a scientific goof. It doesn't actually matter, I was just pointing it out as a sort of interesting science fact. But it obviously has nothing to do with the InGen scientists not genetically engineering the dinosaurs into being miraculous lysine-producing animals, and for some bizarre reason describing it in a way that sounds nothing like that but exactly like they engineered them to be artificially deficient in some way. This is probably the case. I have been reading through the new book that was released after his death, "Dragon teeth". There are some errors in science in there too. For instance, he mentions a dinosaur tooth from "Brontosaurus" the size of a fist, when none of the teeth in a sauropod would be that large. Now, if he meant a Brontothere, then, yes, they have teeth that large, but they most certainly aren't dinosaurs. However, he goes on to describe the sauropod. So, I have to agree that while he tried to get the basic ideas down, he did flub up some of the details here and there.
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Dec 13, 2017 16:17
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exquisite tea posted:Yeah it’s kind of brilliant that everyone gets stranded at the T-Rex paddock because their badass dinosaur safari vehicles are actually just electric jeeps running along an automated circuit. Chricton got a lot of stuff wrong but what he 100% nailed in JP was the commoditization of science for tacky entertainment. Jurassic World completely misses the mark by suggesting that the park wasn’t doomed from the start and would have worked perfectly fine if not for one meddlesome Dino. Zoos are a thing and have been for decades, why would a specifically dinosaur park be doomed to fail forever? Like yeah Crichton's book was using a dinosaur park to illustrate chaos theory and unpredictable systems, but he could have done that with pretty much anything - and he did, with Westworld. He wasn't saying that dinosaur parks in general are an impossible pipe dream, he could have written a period story about an early conventional zoo falling apart. The park in the movie fell apart because of one traitorous idiot, and the one in the book had issues because the staff were learning as they went and dealing with a bunch of unknowns. Early zoos had the same exact problems and obviously they overcame them.
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Dec 13, 2017 17:02
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I would love to watch Petting Park. Alpacas could sub for dilophosaurus
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Dec 13, 2017 17:16
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The failure of Jurassic Park the First was set up well by the story. It's true that Dennis Nedry was the catalyst who shut down all the security systems, but he was first seduced by a rival corporation because he was an overworked, underpaid techie expected to run a billion-dollar zoo with minimal staff. Despite Hammond's infamous "spare no expense" catchphrase it's made obvious that the park was cutting corners at every possible step to avoid paying its workers. Dr. Wu barely knew the names of the creatures he was making, JP's own doctors had no understanding of dinosaur biology and what could be making them sick out in the wild, InGen's own DNA samples were misspelled, their luxury helicopters didn't even have functional seatbelts, the raptors can't even be shown to the public because they're vicious homicidal monsters yet they keep making them, the list goes on and on. All of these little moments cumulatively set up the idea in the viewer's mind that this park is not the impossible wonderland it purports to be, such that Nedry's betrayal is not some shock turncoat moment but the inevitable result of corporate culture that values the commoditization of science over stability. Compare this against Jurassic World where everything is shown to be operating profitably and successfully until one, isolated cascade of failures brought on by the Big Bad Dino, which stretch the limits of plausibility and makes everyone involved look like those idiots in the black & white portions of made-for-TV ads who dump a cabinet full of cookware onto their heads.
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Dec 13, 2017 17:21
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Xenomrph posted:Zoos are a thing and have been for decades, why would a specifically dinosaur park be doomed to fail forever? Jurassic Park didn't have dinosaurs.
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Dec 14, 2017 01:58
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exquisite tea posted:InGen's own DNA samples were misspelled This is a great post and I dig you working a movie flub that's bothered me for decades into your reading of the film.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:04
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The drat movie should've focused on Wu. Zero irony, that would've been amazing. I will never run a studio, because the Jurassic Park movie I want is about Wu as an amoral genius whose ambition to play God destroys all his human connections and leaves him a broken man in his white-and-amber-colored office. It's There Will Be Blood with dinosaurs.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:09
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The part with Wu in it was seriously good, in my recollection the only good part of the movie. Haven't seen B.D. Wong that sinister and sleazy since Father Ray Mukada on Oz.
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Dec 14, 2017 22:38
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The Island of Doctor Wu would have been a genuinely good setup for a new Jurassic series instead of what we got.
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Dec 15, 2017 10:00
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Also it would've been good not to have 8 pointless subplots.
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Dec 16, 2017 01:06
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The plot with weyland -yutani trying to weaponize raptormorphs was really dumb in 2017.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:31
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Xealot posted:Zero irony, that would've been amazing. So Prometheus/Alien: Covenant? I'm down.
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Dec 16, 2017 21:50
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exquisite tea posted:
except that's not true, the park is failing just very slowly that's why they're trying to get in with the military it's why they're having corporate sponsors names attached to their new projects jurassic world is definitely one of my top 10 favorite godzilla movies.
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Dec 17, 2017 11:35
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They tried to do the same thing as Jurassic Park but completely failed in the setup. The series of events required for the big bad dino to escape and all hell to break loose, including a literal "duh where'd he go?" headscratching moment on behalf of our lead, is so contrived that it makes everybody involved look like gigantic idiots. There's no hubris involved and therefore no drama, just a group of idiots taking the most idiotic action at each possible moment. It defies belief how any of these characters tie their own shoes in the morning, let alone operate a futuristic dino park that apparently has been going on without incident until this one fateful day. Jurassic World is pretty much Final Destination with dinosaurs except the audience doesn't even get the gratification of seeing most of the cast killed for their stupidity.
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Dec 17, 2017 14:07
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Elfgames posted:except that's not true, the park is failing just very slowly that's why they're trying to get in with the military it's why they're having corporate sponsors names attached to their new projects Yeah, there's a line in there about how revenues are good but they're flat, because, you know, yay capitalism, corporations always have to be making more.
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Dec 17, 2017 16:00
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banned from Starbucks posted:The plot with weyland -yutani trying to weaponize raptormorphs was really dumb in 2017. "Just imagine if we had these raptors in Afghanistan" *Insert shot of the Taliban roasting raptors legs over an open fire*
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Dec 18, 2017 01:36
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Jurassic World was dumb garbage and this will be too. JW was just bad on so many levels and it reminded me of Prometheus in that everyone is going out of their way to make the worst decisions possible. The characters were weak too. Chris Pratt is just there and his love interest is a woman who dresses nice. I didn't care about anyone and there were no stakes. RobotDogPolice fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Dec 18, 2017 |
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Dec 18, 2017 20:20
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I care about the Raptors.
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Dec 21, 2017 05:17
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Then, Sir Drone, you will love this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJD7jZqZEk I have to admit, I am pretty intrigued.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:17
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As if I wasn't into more dinosaurs anyway, that's a more compelling and clear through-line from the first to this sequel than the earlier trailers.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:23
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there is no way this is going to be good right
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Apr 18, 2018 21:41
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The next JW sequel will just be a Chris Pratt and Blue buddy cop movie.
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Apr 18, 2018 21:55
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MrMojok posted:Then, Sir Drone, you will love this: Wow this looks even worse, lol how the gently caress did they manage that?
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Apr 18, 2018 21:58
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s.i.r.e. posted:Wow this looks even worse, lol how the gently caress did they manage that? It looks like two different movies merged into one. Fighting hybrid mutant dinosaurs created by greedy corporate fucks while also escaping from an exploding Island?
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Apr 18, 2018 22:04
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viral spiral posted:It looks like two different movies merged into one. Fighting hybrid mutant dinosaurs created by greedy corporate fucks while also escaping from an exploding Island? I'm pretty sure that the first half of the movie is getting convinced to return to the island and then escaping from it when it explodes, and then the second half is finding out where the greedy corporate fucks took all the dinosaurs and getting them back while fighting mutant hybrids. So yeah, pretty sharp tonal shift in the middle.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:08
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So it goes from Jurassic Park 3 to some lovely Resident Evil plot with dinosaurs? Yeah, this is going to be strange.
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Apr 18, 2018 22:27
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Jurassic World : The Lost World 2
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Apr 18, 2018 22:46
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Yeah I was reminded of the last raptor fight in the Lost World. Also the last shot of the evil dino and the kid in the bed made me think of Alien. So what's the deal with the new dinosaur? Intelligent, but can it become invisible as well?
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Apr 18, 2018 23:32
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Nice to see this franchise further transitioning into Batshit insanity. No seriously I’m into it I hope they go hogwild.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:48
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One of favorite reactions to the Jurassic World trailers has been the rant from friend Dr. Matt Lamanna who is the curator of Paleontology at the Carnegie Museum who was doing a Q&A after a screening of JP for a 21 & over event at the museum. (lot of great not dumb drunk questions too). He was really upset that finally a Jurassic Park movie showcases one of his favorite dinosaurs, Carnotaurus, and it is immediately killed by the T. Rex; mainly because his goal in life as a paleontologist (other than going to the Bahariya Oasis to find another Spinosaurus specimen just like Stromer) has been trying to get the public interested in Southern Continent dinosaurs (which is why he's mostly goes on expeditions in Antarctica, Northern Africa, and Patagonia). Anyway this movie is going to be poo poo and the only reason I'm glad these Jurassic World movies exist is that they were successful enough to get an upscaled Jurassic Park Operation Genesis made with Jeff Goldblum narration.
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Apr 18, 2018 23:56
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Gaz2k21 posted:Nice to see this franchise further transitioning into Batshit insanity. The only way this turd could be polished is if Vincent Price was still around to ham it up as the evil scientist actually running things behind the scenes.
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Apr 19, 2018 00:09
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Gaz2k21 posted:Nice to see this franchise further transitioning into Batshit insanity. The first movie was on the verge of becoming as insane as I wanted it to be, this one looks like it pulls it off. Very excited.
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Apr 19, 2018 02:42
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