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Kiranamos posted:Craigslist is actually pretty good depending on the area. It can take a while for someone to find it, though. BGG is also a good choice but does take 3% on top of PayPal fees. Thanks. I think I'll let it sit for a while. There are a few copies on BGG, but they've been sitting, so there must not be a lot of demand for it right now.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:05
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Moriatti posted:What makes it stand out as bad agaisnt other social deduction games? I don't tend to play much in that genre but the mechanics seemed good for sowing doubt and distrust and creating pressure? The guy you quoted is dumb and wrong. Secret Hitler is better than Resistance or Avalon, and I like both those games.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:06
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rydiafan posted:The guy you quoted is dumb and wrong. Secret Hitler is better than Resistance or Avalon, and I like both those games. agreed
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Dec 21, 2017 21:07
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rydiafan posted:The guy you quoted is dumb and wrong. Secret Hitler is better than Resistance or Avalon, and I like both those games. I also enjoy it more but as I said before, it's a middle ground genre for me and not a primary genre, so I'd be willing to accept that I was misinformed.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:08
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Is Battle for Rokugan the L5R version of Dune/Rex? I really doubt it because the box looks so tiny but I can hope. You'd think they'd use the license for something as easily reskinned as that.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:12
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Secret Hitler isn't a deduction game, as it is impossible to say for sure if anything is true. By allowing blue team (liberals?) to play fascist policies (either by choice for the card effect, or involuntarily because they forced to chose between two fascist policies), it becomes impossible to deduce anything. Without deduction, it's not a social deduction game. It's just an activity you can do to pass the time while, I assume, making anti-Semitic jokes.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:12
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Moriatti posted:What makes it stand out as bad agaisnt other social deduction games? I don't tend to play much in that genre but the mechanics seemed good for sowing doubt and distrust and creating pressure?
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Dec 21, 2017 21:14
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Bobby The Rookie posted:The policy deck introduces random chance into the game's social deduction aspect, which is good only for people who are terrible liars but bad for everybody else because you can pick a good team and still get screwed on the policies. Likewise, the two-person party limit of chancellor and president is rather boring and only the slightest bit risky because of the aforementioned randomness of the policy deck. *extremely Denzel Washington voice* My man!
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Dec 21, 2017 21:15
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Chill la Chill posted:Is Battle for Rokugan the L5R version of Dune/Rex? I really doubt it because the box looks so tiny but I can hope. You'd think they'd use the license for something as easily reskinned as that. I thought I read that it was more like the L5R version of the GoT Board Game. I was also very surprised to see they put it in what is basically the same size box as their current LCG core sets. I suppose if you take the goofy FFG cardboard center-well divider out of GoT and made all the bits cardboard instead of plastic, you could potentially fit everything in that size?
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Dec 21, 2017 21:16
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Moriatti posted:What makes it stand out as bad agaisnt other social deduction games? I don't tend to play much in that genre but the mechanics seemed good for sowing doubt and distrust and creating pressure? Things it does well in comparison to Avalon: Gives a discrete goal and instructions on how to reach said goal. Components are fantastic quality, and do not seem fiddly. Things it does worse than Avalon: Introduces RNG such that it can be literally impossible to win/lose once you reach certain game states. Game can fall into a cycle where the same 3-4 people are included in every endeavor or it gets voted down. The best way to play the bad guys is to pretend to be a good guy and either get Hitler elected or let RNG pass Fascist policies for you with plausible deniability. Muddles game state such that a good guy trying to be good can sometimes look bad because the information is unreliable, and thus artificially inflates the suspicion. Invites people to make Hitler and Nazi jokes. SH and Avalon are close enough that it's not worth having both in the collection. However, because SH is prettier, easier to explain, and attracts more people a la the CaH factor, it will probably get played more despite being a worse game.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:18
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Quick Diskwars questions - will I notice the lack of a second core set if I get one + both expansions? How's the four player experience in that regard? I know I'm only getting one set of cards (and an incomplete playset of certain disks) from having just one core, but I want to know what you think.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:19
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I haven't played Secret Hitler but I remember this came up earlier this year so I went digging, here's what people cited as reasons they felt it wasn't as strong a game as Resistance:Tekopo posted:I honestly can't see how the introduction of random chance on the ability of bad guys to be able to sabotage a mission allows other players to have more concrete information about the loyalty of those players. It's the same issue that Dark Moon has, where the random elements just allow an out for the bad guys. "Why did you do that?" -> "I got unlucky", and thus ends the investigation. Tekopo posted:The only situation in which you can get meaningful information in SH is the following: PlaneGuy posted:I guess it depends on your definition of social deduction. I think there has to be some deduction in social deduction games other than reading faces. The fun comes from building a case. That's what makes Resistance great: there's this open, public information for players to grab onto and have those discussions (or weave a tale if they're lying). Otherwise you're just yelling "LOOK HE LOOKS SO GUILTY" at each other until the most forceful personalities win.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:19
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I will admit that the Secret Hitler components are amazing. More social deduction games need tiny envelopes to hold role cards, and the Chancellor placard, while wholly superfluous, is a pretty baller prop.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:26
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Merauder posted:I thought I read that it was more like the L5R version of the GoT Board Game. I was also very surprised to see they put it in what is basically the same size box as their current LCG core sets. I suppose if you take the goofy FFG cardboard center-well divider out of GoT and made all the bits cardboard instead of plastic, you could potentially fit everything in that size? drat, but thanks. Here's to hoping I can add to my Wehrle collection with a feudal japan historical game then. Even a "recent" post-Perry game about opening up the trading ports would be great and would fit really well with EIC and Infamous traffic.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:29
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Azran posted:Quick Diskwars questions - will I notice the lack of a second core set if I get one + both expansions? How's the four player experience in that regard? I know I'm only getting one set of cards (and an incomplete playset of certain disks) from having just one core, but I want to know what you think. Think of a single core like a single core of an LCG: you can play a perfectly fun game, but you pretty much pick a slightly-customized faction rather than doing actual army building. The mini-factions from the expansions should help in that regard, but you'll still get blue balls over some command cards promising a fun alternate strategy you can't really build for. As for the cards, there will be fights over/shortages of some basic ones, but they should be easy to proxy (players needing empowering command with a certain initiative keyword, that +move one). I think you'll have a perfectly fun night with a single core and expansion, but unless it flops terribly for your group, you'll get itching for a second one pretty soon.
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Dec 21, 2017 21:39
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I don't need a second copy of the expansions right?
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Dec 21, 2017 21:51
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Not realistically, especially since organized play is dead and any gimmicky two-flame-cannon or six-daemonette builds you can just proxy
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Dec 21, 2017 22:00
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Played Terra Mystica for the first time last night with 3 coworkers, and we used the "suggested" pre-setup. I played as Halflings and won with 100 VP exactly. What initially hit me was just the bevy of rules that the game comes with. I used to play a lot of Magic TCG, and can absorb the increasing complexity creep there, but learning an entire new game system each time I sit down is still a lot for me to process now that I'm getting into the hobby of board games. I knew TM would have a high level of complexity but I don't think I was quite prepared for it and felt mentally exhausted explaining the rules. That being said, I had a ton of fun, and It was very engaging how I could chart the game's evolution and legacy from Catan to inspiring Scythe (my fanboy game that's gotten me into the hobby). Playing TM made me guess at the origin via several upset yet intrepid German board gamers who were thumbing their nose at the lack of complexity and depth of Catan, that's what I got out of the game anyway. My favorite mechanic had to be the power bowl. My brain felt so alive at the constant measuring and posturing of player's pools. Constantly having to judge if it was worth it to build a structure to have my neighbor gain power, or if I wanted the power <> VP trade off when the situation was reversed to me was definitely my favorite aspect. The movement of tokens between the pools felt much more smooth than I anticipated. Also getting resources not on your turn feels great! A question I had though was if on your last turn is there any downside to burning all of your power for short term gains? I assumed there wasn't a downside but I tried to go into the final round with full power in pool 2 to be able to utilize as much of it as possible. My least favorite mechanic was the shipping / "direct or indirect" adjecency. We kept having to count if something was or wasn't adjacent, and I felt like the rules were unclear that if your opponent has multiple Shipping and is considered adjacent to where you wanted to build your Trading Post, you could do it, even if you didn't have the shipping to be adjacent to them. We played as if "if anyone says they're adjacent to you, you're adjacent to them!" for VP / Power / Trading Post discounts but it felt very hard to keep track of constantly with the Merfolk in play. I would definitely play TM again, and I enjoyed the turn-sequencing aspect of it that rewarded me for carefully laying out my turn and eeking every advantage I had out.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:01
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It's one of many euros that has all the rules front loaded but then the game just works.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:04
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What's the consensus? Is Gaia Project a worthy successor to TM? It's bloody expensive but if it's the Better Version I have no problem picking it up if it will get the amount of mileage and attention TM has enjoyed.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:53
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jmzero posted:To be fair, I don't think it's a bad game. And honestly, 1v1 games have never fit well with my group (though quite often 2P coops do well).
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Dec 21, 2017 23:03
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LLSix posted:What are some good 2P co-ops? Most I've seen are 4 player. I'd love to have more games I can play with just my wife. Codenames Duet, Consulting Detective.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:04
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OfChristandMen posted:My least favorite mechanic was the shipping / "direct or indirect" adjecency. We kept having to count if something was or wasn't adjacent, and I felt like the rules were unclear that if your opponent has multiple Shipping and is considered adjacent to where you wanted to build your Trading Post, you could do it, even if you didn't have the shipping to be adjacent to them. We played as if "if anyone says they're adjacent to you, you're adjacent to them!" for VP / Power / Trading Post discounts but it felt very hard to keep track of constantly with the Merfolk in play. Unless I've been playing it wrong this whole time (and I've played quite a few games online...) only immediate absolute geometrical adjacency (hexes sharing sides) affects trade posts and power leeching. The shipping/indirect adjacency affects your ability to build on a hex and get points for the biggest continuous kingdom bonus. The weird exception here is if a player gets a bridge that pokes another player, that connection creates direct adjacency for those purposes. Page 11/12 in the manual.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:08
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CommonShore posted:Unless I've been playing it wrong this whole time (and I've played quite a few games online...) only immediate absolute geometrical adjacency (hexes sharing sides) affects trade posts and power leeching. The shipping/indirect adjacency affects your ability to build on a hex and get points for the biggest continuous kingdom bonus. The weird exception here is if a player gets a bridge that pokes another player, that connection creates direct adjacency for those purposes. Ah! Yeah I knew that we were playing it wrong but there were so many rules floating around that we just decided "Since we started like this, let's just keep the rules this way." Which caused a lot more VP / Power exchanges than were probably necessary. That whole section of what is/isn't direct/indirect adjacency was not making sense to me and no one else really cared. We'll keep that in mind for next time. Are there any other good Euros people recommend?
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Dec 21, 2017 23:16
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FulsomFrank posted:What's the consensus? Is Gaia Project a worthy successor to TM? It's bloody expensive but if it's the Better Version I have no problem picking it up if it will get the amount of mileage and attention TM has enjoyed. Mechanically, GP is a huge improvement. The variable map makes the 2p game much better, and the changed adjacency rules make it easier to build cities and get trading post discounts. The biggest improvement is the repurposed cult track, which is much more prominent and integrated into the game. I’ve only played it four times, so I’m not sure if games will eventually become scripted, but the techs (favors) are randomized and there’s a fair bit of judgment in figuring out optimal tech/research track combinations to use with your racial power. That said, the components are a serious downgrade. Everything is plastic, resources aren’t individualized and are tracked on a bar, and a lot of people have warping cardboard. It’s a bit of a letdown for an $80 game.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:22
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FulsomFrank posted:What's the consensus? Is Gaia Project a worthy successor to TM? It's bloody expensive but if it's the Better Version I have no problem picking it up if it will get the amount of mileage and attention TM has enjoyed. That's been the consensus I've heard so far, but I've also only heard from a few people who have actually played it. I just got my copy in the mail and will probably play it either over Christmas or just after, so maybe I'll share my thoughts. Reading through the rulebook, it seems really good. Resources are less fiddly, the dig/ship levels have been folded into the religion track, and a bunch of planets have been placed that anybody can colonize fairly easily/people can fight over, but fundamentally it seems like exactly the same game. I won't really know until I play it (maybe a bunch of good ideas just vibe bad together and bring down the summed experience), but I'm pretty hopeful. Terra Mystica is probably my #1 board game, but I never bought a copy since so many people I know own it. Gaia Project coming out just felt like the excuse I needed. Prairie Bus posted:That said, the components are a serious downgrade. Everything is plastic, resources aren’t individualized and are tracked on a bar, and a lot of people have warping cardboard. It’s a bit of a letdown for an $80 game. This, but also the art is just so goddamn ugly. TM isn't a standout for looking great, exactly, but GM is kind of actively tacky-looking in a 90's cheap futurist sort of way.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:30
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OtspIII posted:Terra Mystica is probably my #1 board game, but I never bought a copy since so many people I know own it. Gaia Project coming out just felt like the excuse I needed.  I should be able to play it tomorrow since everyone's getting a half/full day off. Will post a trip report sometime since everyone's asking for them. I haven't played TM in years though so I probably won't remember enough to really compare the two.Prairie Bus posted:That said, the components are a serious downgrade. Everything is plastic, resources aren’t individualized and are tracked on a bar, and a lot of people have warping cardboard. It’s a bit of a letdown for an $80 game.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:37
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I own Gaia Project and have played it once at a con before ordering the copy that arrived yesterday. I'm pretty convinced it's an upgrade over TM mechanically in all the ways that matter to me. I feel like there's a great deal more flexibility in how you go about winning a game and fewer ways to get locked out of your strategy for things you had no control over. I've played over 100 games of TM and after just 1 with GP, I have a hard time believing I won't ultimately find it to be the better game.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:47
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Saw the updates on the Root kickstarter. Seems like Leder has taken full control of the Vagabonds  There's talk that Wehrle's "substantially changing" the Woodland Alliance and some other base faction stuff too, so hopefully they can improve the card economy going on.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:51
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Chill la Chill posted:Saw the updates on the Root kickstarter. Seems like Leder has taken full control of the Vagabonds hnmmmm.... that's not a goood sign.
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Dec 21, 2017 23:53
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Impermanent posted:hnmmmm.... that's not a goood sign. OTOH if they scrap it all and just go full on COIN game......
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Dec 21, 2017 23:58
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From my experience they need to do something for the game at any player count that's not 4. Maybe the Cat also controls the Vagabond and the Eyrie controls the Alliance. For 3 player the Vagabond could be a faction that people can buy off on their turn to aid them. A lot of people complained about the Alliance but their whole shtick is being sneaky. Once their engine is built they can outclass everyone else in raw VP, it'll just take the latter half of the game to do that in most cases.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:07
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OfChristandMen posted:Ah! Yeah I knew that we were playing it wrong but there were so many rules floating around that we just decided "Since we started like this, let's just keep the rules this way." Which caused a lot more VP / Power exchanges than were probably necessary. That whole section of what is/isn't direct/indirect adjacency was not making sense to me and no one else really cared. We'll keep that in mind for next time. Yeah the big thing to remember is that shipping only matters for a) where can I dig, and b) final scoring. I'm a big fan of Terra Mystica, A Feast for Odin, Agricola, and Puerto Rico. I'm happy to play any of those at any time.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:08
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Chill la Chill posted:Saw the updates on the Root kickstarter. Seems like Leder has taken full control of the Vagabonds Thanks to whoever convinced me to hold off on backing it. It's still a game I'm interested in, but waiting to see how it plays at release seems like the right call.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:10
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Chill la Chill posted:Saw the updates on the Root kickstarter. Seems like Leder has taken full control of the Vagabonds Cole will give a full update soon, but conspiracies are gone (and replaced with, imo, a more interesting and dynamic system). The new card designs are here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1905588/conspiracy-part-cards-removed al-azad posted:From my experience they need to do something for the game at any player count that's not 4. Maybe the Cat also controls the Vagabond and the Eyrie controls the Alliance. For 3 player the Vagabond could be a faction that people can buy off on their turn to aid them. We're designing scenarios specifically for different player counts.
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Dec 22, 2017 01:12
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Maybe this is a hot take, but I prefer games that are actually designed before being brought to funding platform. That’s like quite literally the lowest bar for me to consider something. Then again I’ve only backed 5 things total.
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Dec 22, 2017 01:45
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I dunno, I think there's something to be said for content creators taking concepts, at least relatively well formed concepts, to crowdfunding and using backer input to shape their product. It's definitely something that you'd need to be a little more discerning about and willing to genuinely approach with the classic crowdfunding mentality of "I helped them make a product a reality" instead of "I'm prepaying for this product". Shrug. I see both sides really. Though making sure it's clear to backers up front that major content changes are possible or likely is key so people don't cry foul and start tossing around garbage like "bait and switch waaaaah".
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Dec 22, 2017 01:51
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It's not like the game wasn't designed, there was a full prototype up from (almost?) day one. It's just that some elements didn't work as well as you'd expect. The fact that they're listening to player feedback and tackling the issues is a good thing, not bad.
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Dec 22, 2017 02:02
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I guess it depends on what the issues are. If they are basic and really should have been seen before now, that's bad. If it's a deep intricate intersction or an honest oversight, it's more forgivable.
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Dec 22, 2017 02:13
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Played a ton of Feast for Odin recently, it's a game I really enjoy. But it also made me realize and appreciate how noteworthy it is that Scythe manages to almost completely do away with the idea of "Phases". You just take 1 action micro turns round and round until the game end is triggered. That's pretty cool really.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:31
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