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Dachshundofdoom posted:I am extremely excited for the idea of a Crawl that hasn't had all the joy and fun slowly sucked out of it. Good luck. Agreed. Also, can I say that a minor but persistent annoyance is that they're keeping the 'stone soup' title which, to me, seems to represent a 'has a bunch of neat and interesting things all together!' connotation? I propose the current crawl devs rename to: Dungeon Crawl: Tepid Broth
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Dec 21, 2017 23:23
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| # ? May 31, 2024 03:46 |
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The idea of 'Stone Soup' is that an entire community contributes different ingredients to the soup to create a full meal. Everyone contributes a little bit and the end result is a substantial meal they all can enjoy. Crawl presumably took the name because its a community developed project that took input from tons of different people in the past. Nowadays with the extreme vetting the devs put into every change its not really an appropriate name...
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Dec 21, 2017 23:30
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Internet Kraken posted:The idea of 'Stone Soup' is that an entire community contributes different ingredients to the soup to create a full meal. Everyone contributes a little bit and the end result is a substantial meal they all can enjoy. Crawl presumably took the name because its a community developed project that took input from tons of different people in the past. Dungeon Crawl: Vegetable Broth
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Dec 21, 2017 23:49
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dungeon crawl distilled water
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Dec 21, 2017 23:52
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Dungeon Crawl: hot H.A.M. water
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Dec 22, 2017 00:04
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Dungeon Crawl: Crab Rangoon.
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Dec 22, 2017 00:27
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Dungeon Crawl: Campbell's Soup
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Dec 22, 2017 01:22
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Dungeon Crawl: Almost but Not Entirely Unlike Stone Soup
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Dec 22, 2017 01:31
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Dungeon Crawl: Soup* * Stone was removed for being too confusing to new players.
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Dec 22, 2017 01:34
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Here's my 2 cents that ties in to HOM* and the whole talk about optimal and/or "right" ways to play: DCSS doesn't have enough ways to push the player into playing better or even different overall. Sure, there's actually winning, score, turn count and timers, but all of these are actually incredibly ambitious goalposts if you haven't actually won a game yet. Number of runes makes for good milestones but they are a little too vague in terms of defining what it takes and what you accomplished. Race/background combos are okay for adjusting difficulty but the same issues apply. This is why I think online play is more appealing to me and many others: leaderboards that let you compare yourself to others, banners in tournaments are essentially a really cool achievement system but because it's not part of DCSS proper you have to be interested in these online tournaments to experience it. Even worse, there's a lot of interesting unnamed "achievements" that are possible and the data is there to fetch but only people knowledgeable on how to make queries on Crawl's database can find it. The whole banner thing is a great way to nudge players in the right direction to explore new strategies and ways to play. My point is: DCSS could use trophies/achievements as a core feature to help players achieve all sorts of minor+major goals. They're fun, and it gives developers a medium for teaching basic/advanced concepts if they're so inclined. But mostly they're just fun. *I get that HAM rolls off the tongue but if we're going to use a term to describe "unlikely/possible optimal play" can we please stick to HOM? The former is pretty insulting/childish
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Dec 22, 2017 02:10
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PMush Perfect posted:Dungeon Crawl: Soup* Dungeon Crawl: Food Ration * * Soup was renamed to Food Ration to reduce redundancy
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Dec 22, 2017 02:16
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please don't make reference to autism. also, please add steam cheevos
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Dec 22, 2017 02:24
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:please don't make reference to autism. also, please add steam cheevos Using autistic as an insult is in pretty bad taste please don't be dense
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Dec 22, 2017 02:26
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no
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Dec 22, 2017 02:28
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I... don't think you two actually disagree right now?
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Dec 22, 2017 02:28
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PMush Perfect posted:I... don't think you two actually disagree right now? Inexplciable Humblebrag uses autism as an insult all the time. The former post was making fun of apple for wanting achievements in a game while not wanting to be called autistic.
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Dec 22, 2017 02:32
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every action in the game is measured in auts, come on
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Dec 22, 2017 02:34
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Ah. Never mind, I give too much benefit of the doubt apparently.
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Dec 22, 2017 02:34
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internet kraken keeps posting about wanting to murder the crawl devs
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Dec 22, 2017 02:38
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I had a few thoughts while working my way through the survey: - Rods and other rechargeable evocables should have some kind of UI element to indicate when your next charge is coming up. Also they should have a better name than "evocable items." - The deleted wands (haste, cure wounds) could be brought back as uncommon rods or misc rechargeables -- finding or buying one would have a big impact on your game, and would give you a permanent "oh poo poo" button, but you wouldn't be able to burn through a pile of charges in a prolonged stairdancing encounter (or whatever) without dipping into your limited stash of potions. - Wand of Teleport should be brought back as Wand of Teleport Other. - The cut zealots can probably go, but Jiyva would be a good candidate for a zealot since he's weird enough (maybe also ashenzari, maaaaybe also chei). - The tomb stair gimmick is only awful in conjunction with the gigantic ambush. This is pretty vague, but I think something with lots of dangerous runed doors and environmental hazards (miasma, statues) would be good in its place. - Shake up the endgame a little by adding Desolation and Wizlab runes, and make up for the difference by turning Hell into 2 random branches or pulling a random pair of the fixed Pan lords. Also, make the Seraph one of the possible rune holders. - An idea for miscast reform: At very low failure chances, a miscast spell should cause something very mild like reduced spellpower or a weaker effect. At higher fail rates, miscasts should be harmful to the player but still produce some kind of desirable effect, like the classic damaging AOE or a buff that also hits nearby enemies, so you're put in a bad spot but haven't totally wasted your turn. It may or may not be a good idea to carry this idea on into very high fail rates; intentionally failing a powerful spell to destroy your enemies in the hopes that you'll manage to survive is cool, but having that option available at all times might be bad. e: Make spellbooks consumables that permanently add their spells to your list of memorizable spells Samog fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 02:50
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Please no official cheevos
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Dec 22, 2017 02:50
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:internet kraken keeps posting about wanting to murder the crawl devs Making poo poo up like this is really weird and doesn't give your tepid insults any more impact.
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Dec 22, 2017 02:50
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Internet Kraken posted:Inexplciable Humblebrag uses autism as an insult all the time. The former post was making fun of apple for wanting achievements in a game while not wanting to be called autistic. I couldn't care less if he used it to insult me, rather the use in general (even if encapsulating in an acronym) is indeed in pretty bad taste. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why doing this is exclusionary. At least I tried 
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Dec 22, 2017 02:52
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Samog posted:- The cut zealots can probably go, but Jiyva would be a good candidate for a zealot since he's weird enough (maybe also ashenzari, maaaaybe also chei). What's the reason that Jiyva isn't a temple god/zealot god in the first place? I've never had a chance to play a game with them since I've never seen an altar before picking a god at Temple.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:01
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dprk -i juche.deb posted:What's the reason that Jiyva isn't a temple god/zealot god in the first place? I've never had a chance to play a game with them since I've never seen an altar before picking a god at Temple. Jiyva is a really bad god to worship early. The slimes eating your loot and exp causes your character to be weaker and playing the entire game under this penalty will significantly hinder you. By putting her only guaranteed altar later on you keep players from being "tricked" into thinking she is a traditional god.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:05
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actual cheevos would be great. I wouldn't like re-earning things, but, there's a reason people like the tourny banners and stuff like greatplayer so much... but they're attached to either IRC, which is clunky as hell, or a website which is also kinda clunky and only at some times of the year.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:20
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Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:every action in the game is measured in auts, come on lol. Ok you're alright.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:35
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My bad for not using HOM, I often forget the term and the other one sticks much better.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:38
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IronicDongz posted:actual cheevos would be great. I wouldn't like re-earning things, but, there's a reason people like the tourny banners and stuff like greatplayer so much... but they're attached to either IRC, which is clunky as hell, or a website which is also kinda clunky and only at some times of the year.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:40
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I thought ham meant hard a** motherfucker
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Dec 22, 2017 03:44
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It does now.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:46
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The people described by the term are extremely soft rear end
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Dec 22, 2017 03:58
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PMush Perfect posted:It could kind of be done the way DoomRL does it? That's definitely beyond the scope of just a standard fork, though. Yeah it'd definitely be a hefty addition, I don't even know if DCSS source code has anything in place to facilitate the tournament banner stuff or if it's all done by processing morgue files/replay files. Now that you mention it DoomRL was open sourced not too long ago, but I'm not sure how useful that would be for reference since it's written in another language. That system was pretty cool, you'd unlock additional ranks as you completed more "achievements" and they'd show up on your morgue file. You could get ranks like Lt. Colonel CYBERDEMON
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Dec 22, 2017 03:59
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I want to bring up making the poison spell "virulence", that checks MR to low poison resistance, castable by players. I already brought this up in my comments on the poll, but since this is tied to a larger issue that I'm, maybe, interested in working on, I also want to discuss it now. Poison magic sucks. Even if you accept the arguments that it's particularly effective (it isn't), it's not much fun to use starting quite early, since the strengths of its best spells don't overcome the frustration of their not working on increasingly many dangerous enemies as the game progresses. Many people who train poison magic feel the experience is wasted, and most people think it's only ever worth it to train if you're a venom mage or, possibly, if you find PArrow quite early. But I don't think the way to fix it is to make its damage spells more applicable, at least not directly. The game already has too many broadly similar damage spells. Damage, but red; damage, but light blue; damage, but dark blue; damage, but purple; damage, but green, etc. aren't really interesting distinctions for spell schools. I think poison should keep damage spells like poisonous vapors, OTR and PArrow, that deal good damage with strong, easy to use mechanics, but not reliably against all enemies. But rather than making another spell you cast to let those spells deal damage to more targets, I think poison should get some strong, mid-high level utility spells that are useful against anything. That makes the player feel rewarded for investment in the school, without turning poison into green damage as opposed to purple damage. One thing I might do, with no promises at all, is write some new spells. Coding is slow work for me and I don't have much free time. But, I'm especially interested in writing short term, powerful buffs to spice up the charms school. If people have good ideas that look like I could figure out how to implement, I might do some poison spells as well. One suggestion I'd make for a player virulence, would be to have it not only reduce poison resistance, but for it to be to work against more than one resistance. I'm not sure of the details. Perhaps it could be a buff that makes the players attacks reduce several resistances, randomly chosen, for a short time, but at some cost to the player, like self-damage. That would have a major interface problem, though. How to communicate easily which resistances were reduced? Maybe it could work as a silence-style aura that reduces all enemies resistances and AC, but applies the same effect to the player. I'm open to other suggestions. If anyone has other ideas for utility spells in the poison school, let's discuss them.
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Dec 22, 2017 06:20
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I sorta like what hellcrawl did with magic, which was to just completely axe conjuration and poison magic. Dual-school conjuration spells became single school and single-school conjuration spells either got deleted if they were boring or classified as an element if they were cool (like air magic dart and earth orb of destruction). I'd suggest doing the same with poison--axe the school and reassign individually cool spells. Removing does go against the gooncrawl ethos though so I'm not even remotely proposing this for the initial pass.
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Dec 22, 2017 06:59
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Acid spells which deal lower damage but corrode the enemy to temporarily lower its damage and armor. Really, if you're worried about elemental damages being too interchangeable, you could make all fire attacks have a chance to apply sticky flame, all cold attacks have a chance to apply the movement slow of Freeze, etc.
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Dec 22, 2017 06:59
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I think the spell schools are pretty distinct at the bottom and top of their spell lists but get sorta murky and indistinct in the middle (do bolt of draining, fire, and ice all really have to be basically the same?). My first pass thought is replace bolt of draining with bolt of acid (a poison spell, corrosion and draining are pretty similar), replace bolt of fire with the projectile conjure flame draconians get, and just remove bolt of cold, replacing it with freezing cloud in all spellbooks containing it (and make it dual school instead of the brutal triple school).
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Dec 22, 2017 07:05
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Man, I hadn't played for almost two years after one of the servers went down and took a DEFE deep into extended with it. I've started up again, won with MiBe to get my feet wet again and hit my tenth win, and now I'm back in the swing of things with a DEFE^Vehumet who picked up a Ring of Fire, got to Lair and realized I have no idea anymore how to play a blaster caster in the midgame. I picked up like half a dozen books and have no idea what spells to go for anymore or how to skill up. Made a pastebin here with my character. My strategy so far is to Fireball down groups or scary dudes, Throw Icicle and Flame Tongue down individuals, Sticky Flame and kite if I'm in trouble, and try not to die.
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Dec 22, 2017 09:51
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I coded a couple things that weren't really in line with that the core team wanted, so I'm re-linking them here in case you would like to reuse them (the code is mostly done, it would just need updating). Archaeologist: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22779 Skill locked chests (based on the above): https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23259 Skeletons: https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23196
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Dec 22, 2017 13:24
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| # ? May 31, 2024 03:46 |
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Oh hey, I've had the flu for a few days, let's just see if there's been any activity in the crawl thread...  I will be coding book amnesia back in the game, if you don't commit the branch Vehumet will send you bad mexican food so your butthole BURNS IN HELLFIRE.
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Dec 22, 2017 14:32
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