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I'm starting to get the itch to run mill on more casual nights. Is it as fun as it seems? UR Breach seems like a pain in the rear end right now tho
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Dec 16, 2017 03:58
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Walked posted:I'm starting to get the itch to run mill on more casual nights. Is it as fun as it seems? I've been playing some form of it on and off since 2013 and I think it's a lot fun. This will sound really pretentious but I think it rewards smart play and knowing the opposition; there's a number of neat synergies baked into the deck that can put it over the edge in some games. As far as success goes, it's bad against aggro and midrange (Eldrazi Tron is nigh-unbeatable), good against control, and great against combo, so if you have a slower meta then I say go for it. If you are feeling feisty you can splash white for Path as your one-mana removal, which I have done in the past (also goes well with Archive Trap and Mind Funeral!). Also please don't poo poo on UR Breach just as I'm starting to build it 
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Dec 16, 2017 05:30
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C-Euro posted:I've been playing some form of it on and off since 2013 and I think it's a lot fun. This will sound really pretentious but I think it rewards smart play and knowing the opposition; there's a number of neat synergies baked into the deck that can put it over the edge in some games. As far as success goes, it's bad against aggro and midrange (Eldrazi Tron is nigh-unbeatable), good against control, and great against combo, so if you have a slower meta then I say go for it. If you are feeling feisty you can splash white for Path as your one-mana removal, which I have done in the past (also goes well with Archive Trap and Mind Funeral!). Oh, no. I run breach myself. It's fine! I'm just saying it runs around a bit these days and emrakul plus counters feels like a tricky matchup for mill I'll probably give your build a try for kicks
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Dec 16, 2017 05:32
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Walked posted:Oh, no. I run breach myself. It's fine! I'm just saying it runs around a bit these days and emrakul plus counters feels like a tricky matchup for mill Oh OK phew. Yeah Emrakul can be a bit tricky but you have maindeck Crypt Incursions and Surgical Extractions to handle her. The trick is to sandbag a couple of Mill spells until you can cast something that removes her from the yard, ideally a Surgical. In that matchup I'd board out all of the removal and bring in the fourth Surgical and whatever mix of Negates and Ravenous Traps made you most comfortable. I think you could get away with pulling out both copies of Fraying Sanity as well.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:38
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Walked posted:UR Breach seems like a pain in the rear end right now tho Might I recommend looking at the Jeskai Breach deck that top 8’d the last GP.
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Dec 16, 2017 13:59
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Played Bant Spirits last night and won prizes for the first time all year in modern. Turns out when your deck doesn't malfunction every game it's easier to win! Round 1 win the die roll vs Jund I keep a normal hand of lands and bad cards he discards my Queller, turn 3 Geist into turn 4 Nebelgast Herald crushes his one blocker he leaves back every turn. Out: 2 Phantasmal Image In: 2 EE I think Game 2 I keep a mediocre 7 with 4 lands + Gavony, Rattlechains, and I think Collected Company. He has no discard, kills my creatures on turn 2 and 3, and I company into Geist + Selfless Spirit in response to his Collective Brutality. He dies to Geist + Gavony a few turns later after spending 3 pieces of removal on the angel tokens. Round 2 I lose the die roll vs straight UW. Game 1 I fetch/draw all my basics in the first 3 turns only to realize what he's playing after the fact. He has an early Search for Azcanta that I unfortunately can't stop with a Mausoleum Wanderer. Lucky for me I've drawn 3 of my 4 Paths!  I play a few early guys, counter a crucial Mana Leak with my Wanderer, and get wrecked by a Supreme Verdict off the top the turn he's dob. Fortunately my backup plan of slowrolling a Geist + Hierarch very cleanly deals with his follow-up of Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. After a judge clarifies that yes, Geist will be a 3/3 even though it's not the only attacker, he takes 3 from Geist, 4 from the angel, and goes down to 3. He untaps, plays a Gideon Jura, plusses and Field of Ruins my Gavony in my draw step for some reason, leaving him with 1 white mana up. Lucky for me I know how my cards work and we get another judge call to confirm that the lethal angel does not have to attack Gideon. He doesn't have the 4th Path so I don't have to cast my Spell Queller and that's game. Funny enough my 3 Paths actually let me win by eating a 3 mana Gideon, a Colonnade, and a counter. I also won at 2 life so it's entirely possible that fetching my basics let me win.Out: 4 Path, 1 Image In: 2 Negate, 2 Pridemage, 1 Runed Halo Game 2 I keep Geist, Queller, Captain, Negate, and 3 lands. He has a pair of Spreading Seas, one of which I Negate just to use my mana. He gets mana screwed and never hits the 4th land for Verdict or the 2nd white for baby Gideon. Not that I really would have cared as again I was slowrolling Geist + Hierarch in case of one. I save the Geist until it allows me to get lethal in with Wanderer triggers. Match 3 lose the die roll vs Esper Shadow I recognize this opponent (he's cubed with me before) so we started talking. I inform him that he's received the bye. In over a year I have never failed to go 2/0 into 0/2 via the matchup lottery and/or variance. Not only that but I inform him that in game 1 I'll draw 2 lands and never hit a 3rd, and in game 2 I'll draw one spell. Game 1 I keep Forest, Misty, Geist, Queller, Rattlechains, Company, Lord. He Thoughtseizes my Queller, I never draw a 3rd land, and die with a hand that couldn't have lost if I'd drawn a white or blue source. Out: 2 Image 1 Geist In: 2 RiP 1 Runed Halo Game 2 I keep 3 lands and some spells I can't remember aside from a Wanderer. I let him Thoughtseize me, then I draw a land. He Thoughtseizes my company, I draw a land. He does nothing. I draw.... a Gavony. Still a land. It's beginning to look like I was wrong about the drawing one spell thing. He casts a Gurmag Angler, I wish they hadn't ever printed delve. I draw.... a Rattlechains! I take 5, he goes to 4 and plays a Death's Shadow. And a Lili which he minus 2s to kill my Hierarch. Observant readers will note that he was dead if he'd plussed. Flash in Rattlechains + Hierarch + Gavony = 4. I draw a land and attack for 3. He attacks for 12. I'm at 12. Note that he had a fetch in play so even if I hadn't attacked I was dead to any removal to kill Rattlechains and I was in double Abyss mode anyway. Round 4 win the die roll vs Bant Company with the Knight combo My opponent no-sirs the 5/4 split so I know this can only end with yet another 2/2 finish for nothing. Game 1 I keep some cards which apparently include a Hierarch, Rattlechains and Queller. I don't remember. My turn 1 Hierarch is better than his turn 2 Bird. He plays a turn 2 Knight which I Quell, and a turn 3 Reflector Mage on my Spell Queller. I don't know if you've ever Rattlechains'd a Reflector Mage trigger but it's *italian chef kissing his fingers* a delight. He has a follow-up Knight on 4 and I EOT Company into Geist + Wanderer, so I'm feeling pretty safe, especially when combined with Gavony. It does leave me open to a Retreat or a Company for 1 turn but after that I've got lethal next turn several different ways and a Queller on top of it. I ask him not to kill me and he's nice enough to comply. Out: 2 Image, 1 Geist In: Linvala, 2 EE. I think about Pridemages but I haven't seen a Retreat and it's easy enough to play around anyway. There's also random, stupid things like Worship. Immediately after shuffling I realize I should have left the Images in and cut the Geists. Oh well. Game 2 I draw double EE, Hierarch, Geist, Queller, Captain, Rattlechains. Perfect! My 6 has forest, Misty, EE, Queller, double Company. He has turn 3 Knight, turn 4 Knight. I have 2 lands, 13 life, and a Rattlechains. I draw my 3rd land, play EE on 3, and hope I don't lose to a Retreat or a Pridemage. I don't, and I draw my 4th land so I can flash in a Selfless Spirit and still blow the EE. Everything's coming up Millhouse! I try to Path one of his guys but he has a Spell Queller, which doesn't seem fair to me. How am I supposed to beat a 2/3? By hitting a Drogskol Captain and a Wanderer off of my first company, that's how! Suddenly my 2/1 creatures are effectively unblockable. He has another Spell Queller that he main phases just to make sure it resolves. I untap and draw another lord so I have double hexproof on most of my creatures, hexproof on all of my creatures, and 4 attackers, any 2 of which are lethal. He does the math, gains 4 life with Blessed Alliance (which I played around by attacking with the Noble Hierarch: smuggo: ) and scoops. He wasn't actually dead at 10 life but he had to chump with both Quellers, so I'd get my Path back to get rid of his only other creature and I can't imagine he has outs in his deck against a minimum of 15 power spread across 5 creatures, all with hexproof. Tl;dr: Geist is a messed up card. I should probably be playing 4. Somehow I kept drawing my Geist of Shame too. It's the only English card in the main.
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Dec 19, 2017 15:50
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suicidesteve posted:
I play 3 Geist in the main, but I'm not playing EE or Linvala or Negate in the board, and I'm not on the Nebelghast Herald tech (how is that btw?) Are you playing a singleton Kira in the main?
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Dec 19, 2017 17:24
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any thought to playing Kataki, which I believe is a spirit?
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Dec 19, 2017 17:36
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:any thought to playing Kataki, which I believe is a spirit? It's been a while since I've played Spirits, but I think the consensus is that it's just better to run Stony Silence. I dunno, I'd probably run one plus a silence or two in the board. You can also main a Kataki if you want to get'em every once in a while (or get yourself as you sac your Aether Vials).
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Dec 19, 2017 17:54
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What are people's Spirits lists these days? Once I finally get off my butt to get my 4th Hierarch I will only need the SOM block Spirits and a couple of Geists to build it.
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Dec 19, 2017 18:07
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Mezzanon posted:I play 3 Geist in the main, but I'm not playing EE or Linvala or Negate in the board, and I'm not on the Nebelghast Herald tech (how is that btw?) List that I forgot to post. Kira has consistently been horrible whenever I played one. Herald has been good when I've drawn it. It's almost impossible to race, especially if you have a Rattlechains. You also get some sicko plays like flash in Rattlechains to protect Herald from a Terminate while also tapping a Death's Shadow. If the entire deck didn't already cost 3 or if I could play 7 Hierarchs, I'd probably drop the other 2 Images for the 4th Geist and the 2nd Herald. Linvala isn't normal but I decided I really didn't want to lose to other company decks. Negate is just a really good card. It snags so many of the cards you'll have problems with otherwise. Johnny Five-Jaces posted:any thought to playing Kataki, which I believe is a spirit? Thinking emoji
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Dec 19, 2017 18:28
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suicidesteve posted:List that I forgot to post. Okay our mains are pretty similar. Spell list is exactly the same, creature list is I'm +1 Kira, -1 Herald. Lands are almost the same except I'm at one gavony/one cavern and you're two gavony zero cavern. SB has some changes, my SB is: 2 pridemage 2 war monk 2 rest in peace 2 stony silence 2 kataki 2 eidolon of rhetoric 2 blessed alliance 1 worship
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Dec 19, 2017 18:34
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Cavern is another card I just didn't care about. You're already so good against counters that it seemed like overkill. Gavony is an insane card that won me 3 or 4 games last night and playing less than 2 feels like a mistake. I was going to try out Eidolon but it's good against like, one deck, and it's not a particularly bad matchup to begin with. I went something like 7/2 against storm playing for fun last week and it felt like it got better after sideboard. Also I forgot and I didn't feel like digging my Russian copy out anyway. I cut my Blessed Alliance for one of the Negates for a similar reason. It's good against Bogles and Burn, which are ok matchups already, and occasionally Death's Shadow when they don't have a Stubborn Denial (never.) I'm thinking Worship is probably the next cut but it's done good work in the past. Triple lord + Worship is a lock against most decks (though you're winning that one anyway,) Geist alone + Worship is a lock against some decks. That's kinda my metric for bringing it in. If I'm very likely to win a game where I curve Selfless Spirit into Geist into Worship I'll bring it in. Also also I lied about the Geist of Shame being my only English card. I have judge Hierarchs too because I have standards. suicidesteve fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Dec 19, 2017 |
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Dec 19, 2017 18:42
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suicidesteve posted:Cavern is another card I just didn't care about. You're already so good against counters that it seemed like overkill. Gavony is an insane card that won me 3 or 4 games last night and playing less than 2 feels like a mistake. I was going to try out Eidolon but it's good against like, one deck, and it's not a particularly bad matchup to begin with. I went something like 7/2 against storm playing for fun last week and it felt like it got better after sideboard. Also I forgot and I didn't feel like digging my Russian copy out anyway. I cut my Blessed Alliance for one of the Negates for a similar reason. It's good against Bogles and Burn, which are ok matchups already, and occasionally Death's Shadow when they don't have a Stubborn Denial (never.) I'm thinking Worship is probably the next cut but it's done good work in the past. Triple lord + Worship is a lock against most decks (though you're winning that one anyway,) Geist alone + Worship is a lock against some decks. That's kinda my metric for bringing it in. If I'm very likely to win a game where I curve Selfless Spirit into Geist into Worship I'll bring it in. I too have the full playset of judge hierarchs. I do agree about Gavony, the card is pretty much must answer, and I do find myself sometimes siding out the singleton cavern to run at 21 lands, I could see myself making room for another gavony by cutting a fetch. Worship is a recent addition for me I traded out my runed halo for a worship and it has done a lot of work, winning me multiple games at the last 5k I went to. I think you're sleeping on Eidolon (I switched out my meddling mages for them) It's not just good against storm, a lot of people have no idea how to play against it. I usually bring it in against deaths shadow and scapeshift decks as well.
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Dec 19, 2017 19:10
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Modern crew- how useful is Ceremonious Rejection as a sideboard card? Thinking I should replace the 3 Negates in my Mill SB with 3 Rejections as Affinity and Eldrazi Tron are both terrible matchups for the deck (though it's probably more useful against the latter of the two). Then again I have two maindeck Damnation and a fair amount of applicable removal in my SB already (including 2x Hurkyl's Recall for Affinity), so I don't know how much SB space I want to commit to a couple of already-difficult matchups. What else is Ceremonious Rejection good against to justify using it over a more general answer in Negate? E: Sideboard for context- 2 Cryptic Command 3 Echoing Truth 1 Hero's Downfall 2 Hurkyl's Recall 3 Negate 3 Ravenous Trap 1 Surgical Extraction Yes the Cryptics are super-spicy but now that I have a couple copies I want to try them out. They will probably turn into Thoughtseizes or Pithing Needles sooner or later. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 05:22
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Rejection is a much better card for hosing Tron than just Affinity, although it's really useful in that match up as well. I personally like it better than negates, but then most of the modern decks I play have really weak match ups vs Tron, so I tend to favor Rejection much more.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:37
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What are you commonly using negates against that aren't the things you're hitting with ceremonious rejection?
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Dec 22, 2017 19:57
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:What are you commonly using negates against that aren't the things you're hitting with ceremonious rejection? Any of the Wraths that aren't Verdict, any spell in storm, Company/Chord (though I don't actually bring it in there,) Spreading Seas, planeswalkers, Cryptic, Dispel, Bolt, Path, Helix, Tbrough the Breach, Scapeshift, heck maybe even Serum Visions if they're missing lands.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:16
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i don't think esper mill is doing all of those things
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Dec 22, 2017 20:39
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Johnny Five-Jaces posted:What are you commonly using negates against that aren't the things you're hitting with ceremonious rejection? Steve beat me to it, but combo spells like Scapeshift (though I generally like my combo matchups thanks to Surgical) and planeswalkers are the big ones, as well as stopping non-creature artifacts and enchantments like Leyline of Sanctity or Blood Moon (though people aren't hardcasting Leyline all that often). Permanents that aren't creatures or lands are tough for the deck to interact with in general, but I have quite a bit of removal in the SB already. Maybe putting Rejection in over Negate makes Command a more appealing SB card, since it can counter or bounce the threats that Negate would stop. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 20:41
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yeah scapeshift and... well basically liliana of the veil were the cards I could think of that don't get hit by dispel or ceremonious rejection, though now that i actually read the post i see there aren't dispels in there either so that's more cuts you'd have to make
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Dec 22, 2017 20:43
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Disdainful stroke is a very real SB card in modern, it hits most cards that you bring in negate against as well as primeval titan, eldrazi and delve creatures.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:49
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uninverted posted:Disdainful stroke is a very real SB card in modern, it hits most cards that you bring in negate against as well as primeval titan, eldrazi and delve creatures. That's actually a great idea, especially since I almost never need to tap out on turn 4. Thanks!
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Dec 22, 2017 21:01
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2-2 with UB Mill at FNM tonight. Held out against Jund for a while before eventually losing, lost a close one to Storm, then handily beat Mardu Pyromancer and Monoblack Devotion. Won almost all of my games (and nearly won game 2 vs Storm) by grinding people down with Mesmeric Orb  Misjudged the local meta and ran 3 each of Push and Surgical main with the 4th of each in the SB, I thought I would see more combo. Definitely going to run 4 Push mainboard and a 2/2 split on Surgicals going forward. Also had a guy ask me if Mill runs SB Leyline of Sanctity, which I would love to include but the sideboard feels so stretched thin already. I still can't decide if I like Set Adrift or Echoing Truth more as bounce removal, especially having lost to Empty the Warrens tokens from Storm and playing a token-heavy deck in Mardu. Lastly, I boarded out Fraying Sanity a lot and I wonder if it's maybe too slow. I like my odds in longer grindier games so a card that is better against faster clocks might be a better use of that slot, but I can't think of what that might be. Highlight of the night was the store doing 25% off singles for their end-of-year sale and me getting my last Snapcaster for Blue Moon at $40 
C-Euro fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 05:52
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There was a G/B, Eldrazi Rock deck floating around, right? Here's my stab at it: 2 Abrupt Decay 4 Oath of Nissa/Birds of Paradise 4 Fatal Push 2 Grim Flayer 4 Inquisition of Kozilek 3 Liliana of the Veil 1 Liliana, the Last Hope 1 Maelstrom Pulse 4 Matter Reshaper 4 Reality Smasher 1 Scavenging Ooze 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Thought-Knot Seer 4 Eldrazi Temple 1 Forest 1 Hashep Oasis 3 Ifnir Deadlands 4 Llanowar Wastes 2 Overgrown Tomb 2 Swamp 1 Twilight Mire 4 Verdant Catacombs So, I’m testing out Birds vs Oath. Turn 2 Lili with the bonus of painless mana fixing is super nice but at the same time, turn 1 card selection in a Rock deck that fixes for the Walkers and contributes to Goyf/delerium is also super nice. It is a conundrum. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 02:02
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I got my Lotus Vale in 8/2015 for $3.61 Somehow, my casing of the reserve list over the time since, didn't ever cause me to recognize it as an RL card. If I had, say, a week ago, then I also would have noticed that it had gone from $3.61 to $9 in that time, and I would have been pretty tempted to just throw $500 at it. If I had done all those things, I'd feel really loving smart right now. As it is, I guess I should just appreciate the 1000% appreciation I've seen in two years? 
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Jan 5, 2018 21:55
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Ha, I painted a lotus vale into a black lotus for a vintage tourney about a year ago. Woops!
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Jan 5, 2018 22:02
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I sure am glad that they left Terminus legal, it's such a fun card to lose to off the top every game.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:42
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Anyone else excited we may see a new Legacy deck emerge tanks to Bloody Sun?
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Jan 6, 2018 03:44
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Smashing Link posted:Anyone else excited we may see a new Legacy deck emerge tanks to Bloody Sun?
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Jan 6, 2018 03:52
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Smashing Link posted:Anyone else excited we may see a new Legacy deck emerge tanks to Bloody Sun? I'm excited by it not happening.
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Jan 6, 2018 03:58
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Smashing Link posted:Anyone else excited we may see a new Legacy deck emerge tanks to Bloody Sun? A card that is worse than Blood Moon, when the Blood Moon stomp decks aren't even very good. My experience tells me that this isn't going to happen.
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Jan 6, 2018 05:23
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what does that deck look like? a two- or three-color deck that uses 4 of the requisite OG duals and some other awful lands to try and cheese peoples' reliance on fetches? the upside of that strategy is you can use blue to filter your draws, thereby removing the biggest problem that the current stompy decks have but i'm unconvinced
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Jan 6, 2018 06:30
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I think r/g tron might test it.
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Jan 6, 2018 06:35
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i preordered my playset of snapcaster mage: red edition. today was the first time i've seen that card, and it seems like it could be really good? are there any obvious decks that just already want it?
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Jan 6, 2018 06:56
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It (Blood Sun) has potential in modern to make the ravnica bouncelands just etb tapped sol lands. So perhaps some sort of primeval titan/amulet deck would benefit from this as well, with its hosing of fetches being incidental to its playability
L0cke17 fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 06:57
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Soul Glo posted:i preordered my playset of snapcaster mage: red edition. Humans might. I'm going to test it out. Ziggurat is an issue but I've already shaved to 3 there
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Jan 6, 2018 06:59
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Mezzanon posted:I think r/g tron might test it. i meant in legacy my guy, but yeah RG tron seems like a spot in modern. you can get away with all kinds of hosed up repugnant poo poo like "playing non-shocklands" in your manabase in that format
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Jan 6, 2018 07:10
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Walked posted:Humans might. I'm going to test it out. Ziggurat is an issue but I've already shaved to 3 there With vial it can do an actual snapcaster impersonation.
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Jan 6, 2018 07:10
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L0cke17 posted:It (Blood Sun) has potential in modern to make the ravnica bouncelands just etb tapped sol lands. So perhaps some sort of primeval titan/amulet deck would benefit from this as well, with its hosing of fetches being incidental to its playability Isn't a big part of that deck being able to bounce Tolaria West back to your hand?
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Jan 6, 2018 07:20
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