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BioEnchanted posted:This isn't going to end until a network exec comes into his living room to see his 12 year old watching Whatever Happened to Baby Jane and Casablanca on Bravo, and when asking why he isn't watching CN just being told "There is literally nothing on. I checked Nick and Toon Disney, they're all crap now too. Now shush, I'm just getting to the good part..." Nah, that 12 year old's already on KimCartoon watching pirated episodes of shows that should have been on CN/Nick.
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Dec 21, 2017 11:38
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Domestic Amuse posted:KimCartoon Like KissCartoon but with insidious pro-North Korean messages everywhere?
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Dec 21, 2017 15:01
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We.... .....Are the Juche Gems....
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Dec 21, 2017 16:36
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Anyone want to watch a portugese SU commercial? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v612RStrp8
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Dec 21, 2017 17:28
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Domestic Amuse posted:Nah, that 12 year old's already on KimCartoon watching pirated episodes of shows that should have been on CN/Nick. Whiz Palace posted:Like KissCartoon but with insidious pro-North Korean messages everywhere? Kisscartoon is full of malware now, don't go there. Kimcartoon is what sprung up to take its place, although I still don't fully trust it. Mr.Pibbleton posted:Anyone want to watch a portugese SU commercial? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v612RStrp8 This is a delight, whoever made it did a fantastic job.
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Dec 21, 2017 18:42
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khwarezm posted:Lol, this conversation is fascinating to me because you'd swear to god this was the hardest thing in world to keep consistent, but it isn't. Watch almost any other cartoon on the air today and they probably won't have anywhere near the same amount of off-model, bizarrely proportioned characters that SU does. Trust me, the animation industry has existed for more than a century and they've long figured out basic things like model sheets to keep things consistent, and consistency is kind of important since the entire point of animation is drawing the same thing over and over to create the illusion that it's a singular thing going through motion. If the Crewniverse want's my actionable advice maybe just stick to the drat sheets and don't let your story-boarders fly off in any direction they want constantly. There, the empty criticism is now filled. Methodology is integral to generating a style, and the style is the lifeblood of any cartoon that doesn't want to look generic. because style is part of the general aesthetic or "feel" of the show. Changes in methodology lead to changes in style lead to changes in the aesthetic/feel. And a lot of shows employ changing character sizes to make them feel more or less imposing as needed. But, more importantly, It's weird to see someone argue like this on the topic from the opposite end of where it usually is. Too many times I've seen goony internet animation nerds usually argue the exact opposite, that being TOO on model makes it not real animation. The simpsons, family guy, etc, aren't real animation to a lot of the cartooning community BECAUSE they don't let the characters go off model for comedic effect or to exaggerate action or emotion ever to these people. Including notable geniuses/crazies like John K. Their animation policy in general is to "never draw the same pose or expression twice", and to be as inconsistent as possible to create their animations. John and their studio has other problems, but the actual quality of the animations are not one of them. Either way, you are exactly as lovely as those people, because you're taking a prescriptivist stance on a topic where it really isn't needed in a conversation where it's not wanted. And you're copping a weird holier-than-thou attitude about it while doing so. And has been pointed out, this is pretty antithetical to the show's message and breezy relaxed feeling, and is just ignorant of the artistic side of animation in general. So, please just shut up about it. Not because you're wrong, but because you and this derail are both tedious. If you feel the urge to post about inconsistent sizes again, just repeat to yourself "If every porkchop was perfect, we wouldn't have hotdogs." until it goes away. Focacciasaurus_Rex fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 12:04
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I'm pretty sure the main issue with the John K style is that they aren't never on model, necessarily, but they go out of their way to emphasise things with new poses, and that it's a shitload of work to do so. Even given he quickly turned into a crank, John K still gets a fair amount of respect probably because he clearly believed in putting in a ton of work in cartooning and that the visual storytelling is important. (though I think he ended up neglecting the writing for a lot of it) Of course, even the direly 'on-model' shows like post-CG Simpsons and Teen Titans Go- and hell, South Park for that matter- still end up having similar issues with scale and inconsistency if you're crazy enough to compare scenes to scenes, maybe less often but it still happens because composition is more important than consistency. I think people generally have an acceptance for that, because cartoons are meant to be an abstraction of events that would be another load of work to depict in 'reality', with features that wouldn't translate to anything but horror if you saw them in real life, but are cute and easy to follow on the 2D screen. You're already suspending disbelief and watching drawings move about for you, doesn't matter that some drawings are inconsistent when you know they're drawings. (generally) Also, of all the Gems to have an implied bout of alcoholism... actually, I really shouldn't be surprised it was Peridot.
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Dec 22, 2017 12:26
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Inescapable Duck posted:I'm pretty sure the main issue with the John K style is that they aren't never on model, necessarily, but they go out of their way to emphasise things with new poses, and that it's a shitload of work to do so. Even given he quickly turned into a crank, John K still gets a fair amount of respect probably because he clearly believed in putting in a ton of work in cartooning and that the visual storytelling is important. (though I think he ended up neglecting the writing for a lot of it) Yeah. Generally with John K. the problem isn't how it's animated, but what was decided to be animated in the first place, and that he finds other considerations like likable characters or enjoyable stories a secondary concern at best. I was mostly just trying to point out that his statement "I thought this would be a very uncontroversial statement.", is in fact very controversial in the animation community, because there's so many different ways to go about things, and each different way produces different results. Personally, I think a lot of SU's animation problems come from budget constraints more than anything, but that's usually how it is. I'd love to see a full budget steven universe movie with extra lush animations. 
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Dec 22, 2017 12:46
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khwarezm posted:Lol, this conversation is fascinating to me because you'd swear to god this was the hardest thing in world to keep consistent, but it isn't. Watch almost any other cartoon on the air today and they probably won't have anywhere near the same amount of off-model, bizarrely proportioned characters that SU does. You are horribly incorrect. Like unless you're gonna unironically point at something that's made with Flash puppeteering or point sat the stiff, lifeless expressions of The Simpsons these days as a good thing. Augus fucked around with this message at 14:58 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 14:53
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*deletes a long meandering post about John K and specific acting*
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Dec 22, 2017 14:55
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 http://hilaryflorido.tumblr.com/post/168762683598/this-is-the-first-episode-with-amber-as-my-board Space Cadet Omoly posted:
  http://lions-dimensional-mane.tumblr.com/post/168771568871
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Dec 22, 2017 16:55
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Augus posted:You are horribly incorrect. Well, let's have a look see: me posted:certainly look at stuff like what you see on Netflix and I'll take SU's sloppiness over their sterility if I'm forced to choose me, again posted:I absolutely agree with you that I'd take the old sort of unstable, rubbery animation to the current stale-rear end crap (also it's not technically inferior by most measures), which is why I said earlier for whatever problems I have with SU I also prefer it to, say, the kind of sterile, rigid stuff you see on most Netflix shows for example. Oh. You see, this is one of the reasons why I'm being such a dickhead about this, my complaint isn't exactly unfair or unwarranted and I give the show a lot of credit where it's due. But in spite of that too many people absolutely cannot abide any of this. I don't think it's because most people actually like the zig-zagging sizes, as evidenced by the weak-rear end defenses that have been offered so far, the best of which is 'well I don't care!', it's more to do with the fact they really like the show to the point that even the lightest criticism is an attack on their person. And to be fair I've taken that attitude a bit in the past, but again, it's just a cartoon. So bringing this around to your post, again, thank you for repeating basic things about animation I already know and missing most of my pretty bluntly obvious arguments for whatever you think I'm saying. I thought it was kind of obvious from what I've been posting for ages now that there's no problem with SU going off-model when they have good reason to do so, the problem is they too often don't have good reason and clearly it happens either because nobody's paying enough attention or because they aren't willing to reel in their story-boarders more than they should. There is a middle ground between ramrod rigid, sterile Family Guy-esque animation and not paying any attention to the visual consistency of your characters from scene to scene, SU would be improved if it found that ground more often. I don't care about other people being too dickish when talking about other shows not going off-model enough, I care about the Crewniverse holding themselves to better standards of consistency and avoiding awful looking crap like Macrocephaly Connie on the right here:  Focacciasaurus_Rex posted:So, please just shut up about it. Never.
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Dec 22, 2017 21:01
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Maybe if we keep telling him he's wrong, he'll eventually realize it!
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Dec 22, 2017 21:54
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honestly while I don't really mind when things look off I also don't mind people being bugged by the more egregious examples (like that connie pic, though she looked fine for most of the episode)
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Dec 22, 2017 22:01
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I've never noticed in the show but some of these screenshots are pretty hilariously wack.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:20
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That's because if you try, you can make any animation look bad through the magic of still frames.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:57
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I always thought Minecraft Superman was a weird creative decision...
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Dec 22, 2017 23:03
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TwoPair posted:That's because if you try, you can make any animation look bad through the magic of still frames. That's just a smear...
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Dec 22, 2017 23:22
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honestly 90% of the time you don't even notice when watching (compare that with say some more on-model shows where I'd say 95% of the time none of the weirdness is noticeable)
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Dec 22, 2017 23:29
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It's not noticeable or a big deal at all in context and I am mystified by reports of people who are supposedly ripped out of the experience by it I've seen that comparison of Connie at least a dozen times now and I've yet to figure out what incredibly damning point it's supposedly illustrating
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Dec 23, 2017 00:26
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TwoPair posted:That's because if you try, you can make any animation look bad through the magic of still frames. Characters looking strange when in the middle of action is different from a character having a head larger than their body for no reason for the duration of a talking scene.
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Dec 23, 2017 00:31
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misadventurous posted:I've seen that comparison of Connie at least a dozen times now and I've yet to figure out what incredibly damning point it's supposedly illustrating To be fair big head Connie just looks off and is part of that 10% of the time where it's noticeable to casual viewers
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Dec 23, 2017 01:02
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I like how khwarezm keeps telling people that it's just a cartoon and not to get your feathers ruffled up about it, only to get butthurt whenever people say it's a small and pointless criticism, and keeps bringing up the same points ad nauseum, nevermind that he linked that stupid video in the first place like it's some flawless holy grail of animation advice. Come to think of it, when SU's not being all serious with the story, it's unbelievably cartoony. It's a show about magic gay space rocks with superpowers and crazy hair. Nobody's gonna be surprised if this show's proportions ain't perfect. And even things like the Peridot height can be justified by seeing it from a matter of perspective depending on the scene. also also the difference between the two Connie's is that one is super uptight and socially awkward with no friends while the other is far more relaxed at a party setting and lets herself go. BOOM
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Dec 23, 2017 01:44
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Shitenshi posted:also also the difference between the two Connie's is that one is super uptight and socially awkward with no friends while the other is far more relaxed at a party setting and lets herself go. BOOM nah Katie Mitroff tends to draw characters tiny and chibi and in that specific scene either she went too far or the animators drew her connie kinda off
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Dec 23, 2017 01:53
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The Ayshkerbundy posted:nah Katie Mitroff tends to draw characters tiny and chibi and in that specific scene either she went too far or the animators drew her connie kinda off Oh I wasn't even trying to make a serious point about animation, I just think the reason of, "It has to have a point for being off-model!" is ridiculous when you can theoretically make any excuse why certain off-proportions are "justifiable." Even Pearl being taller than Lapis in Hit the Diamond serves a point. Pearl is like a worried mother while facing the HW Rubies and Lapis is the chill kid who quite frankly doesn't give a gently caress either way.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:04
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Shitenshi posted:I like how khwarezm keeps telling people that it's just a cartoon and not to get your feathers ruffled up about it, only to get butthurt whenever people say it's a small and pointless criticism, and keeps bringing up the same points ad nauseum, nevermind that he linked that stupid video in the first place like it's some flawless holy grail of animation advice. Come to think of it, when SU's not being all serious with the story, it's unbelievably cartoony. It's a show about magic gay space rocks with superpowers and crazy hair. Nobody's gonna be surprised if this show's proportions ain't perfect. And even things like the Peridot height can be justified by seeing it from a matter of perspective depending on the scene. Weellll people keep on responding to me and acting real butthurt and insulted themselves like you are here so ok. Also is it normal for your head to turn into a balloon when you're comfortable with friends? I need to look into this.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:21
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you're not even complaining about frames that look bad, just ones that look different from other frames it's an obnoxious thing to whine endlessly about regardless of how "butthurt" you think people are.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:25
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Steven Universe is a good show.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:29
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A complete lack of new episodes = height chat Noted. 
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Dec 23, 2017 02:36
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khwarezm posted:Weellll people keep on responding to me and acting real butthurt and insulted themselves like you are here so ok. u mad bro? man y'all just need to chillax rofl ppl are so uptight these days. now I'm gonna keep shitposting over the same point, later peepz!
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Dec 23, 2017 02:37
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Infinitum posted:A complete lack of new episodes = height chat I'll be here till January, I've already let my family know I'm skipping Christmas this year to complain more about cartoon height on the internet.
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Dec 23, 2017 02:52
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Yes, clearly what Steven Universe needs are Family Guy style clean up boards where everything is tweaked at great expense: http://coreymbarnes.tumblr.com/post/152250760677/inside-family-guy-retake-storyboards That would add so much to the immersion of the story. Seriously though, while the looser nature of the boards doesn't always work as well in SU as AT or OKKO, let alone Rebecca Sugar's favorite, Ed, Edd n' Eddy, that's only noticable if you watch it incessantly and pedantically. It's literally "magic xylophone" nonsense nitpicking that only cartoon nerds would even give a half care about. Most people would never even notice without screen shots and over wrought online discussion. Maybe that's the real problem with 180 day gaps between new episodes - too much time to spend on noticing nothing of importance.
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Dec 23, 2017 03:11
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misadventurous posted:It's not noticeable or a big deal at all in context and I am mystified by reports of people who are supposedly ripped out of the experience by it people with autism love to get obsessive about things non autists either don't get bothered by or consider trivial
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Dec 23, 2017 03:22
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mods pls make the term "butthurt" a bannable offense
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Dec 23, 2017 03:24
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Hot take, I think it's ok for people to think some of the frames in the show look bad. It's ok for other people to think they don't look bad. Art is subjective, if you like it, fine, if you think it looks bad, fine. Idek how this conversation is still going. So unrelated, but what do you guys think we'll see in the episodes besides what we've already seen previewed/leaked?
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Dec 23, 2017 03:30
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underage at the vape shop posted:people with autism love to get obsessive about things non autists either don't get bothered by or consider trivial Cool cool, very cool good post, not a weird and lovely jab at autistic people for no reason at all Well, see you all in January I guess
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Dec 23, 2017 03:33
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I slipped on some ice and fell on my butt and hurt my butt, and now my butt hurts.
Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 03:37
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Dirty Deeds Thunderchief posted:Hot take, I think it's ok for people to think some of the frames in the show look bad. It's ok for other people to think they don't look bad. Art is subjective, if you like it, fine, if you think it looks bad, fine. Idek how this conversation is still going. I'll tell you what, I'll do my bit and talk about this instead. I'm a bit disappointed that there are only two 11 minute episodes so I presume that they won't cover a huge amount of ground. I find myself doubting that we'll see lapis this time around, that might be something they'll let stew for a while longer, having said that I really don't know what they could do with the Jungle moon concept in terms of big plot developments otherwise unless they just make it into another study about Connie and Steven's relationship.
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Dec 23, 2017 03:41
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Dirty Deeds Thunderchief posted:Hot take, I think it's ok for people to think some of the frames in the show look bad. It's ok for other people to think they don't look bad. Art is subjective, if you like it, fine, if you think it looks bad, fine. Idek how this conversation is still going. pretty much  some of the people who don't like it are making way to big of a deal and give off the implication that it happens more than it actually does (generally more the people outside of the thread than the ones in the thread), but on the flipside many of the people who don't mind get way too defensive
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Dec 23, 2017 04:23
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I thought the new episode was tonight, but alas, it's next Friday. As far as things being "off model" goes, the only one I can remember bugging me while I watched it was Pearl in "Adventures in Light Distortion":  Yeesh.
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Dec 23, 2017 05:34
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