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I thought the Dems were doing it because they literally couldn't whip the votes. The excuses keep changing https://twitter.com/theintercept/status/944250633514864640
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Dec 22, 2017 19:06
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Chomskyan posted:I thought the Dems were doing it because they literally couldn't whip the votes. The excuses keep changing Couldn't whip the votes in the senate to hold out for more than CHIP, correct. Some Democratic senators wanted to give the ongoing senate DACA negotiations until January to complete. That's basically been the coverage for a week now.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:10
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hey remember back when DREAMers were being insouciant, unrealistic, arrogant, [surreptitiously checks thesaurus for other synonyms for "uppity"] little jerks for acting like Democratic support for their goals wasn't a given loving lol
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Dec 22, 2017 19:19
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Trabisnikof posted:Couldn't whip the votes in the senate to hold out for more than CHIP, correct. Some Democratic senators wanted to give the ongoing senate DACA negotiations until January to complete. That's basically been the coverage for a week now. So in fact the Democrats don't have the political will to stand up to the GOP on DACA, because the situation will be exactly the same in January
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Dec 22, 2017 19:20
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The Dems were forced to choose between CHIP or DACA. CHIP needed to be dealt with immediately, DACA still has time to work with.Chomskyan posted:So in fact the Democrats don't have the political will to stand up to the GOP on DACA, because the situation will be exactly the same in January That's a very disingenuous way of looking at it.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:21
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remember the tremendous pelosi-schumer triumph of Getting Donald Trump To Commit To DACA Before Tax Reform and those goddamned CHILDREN who had the temerity to do anything other than gratefully worship them for the accomplishment of getting Donald Trump to say he'd do something lol forever
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Dec 22, 2017 19:27
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Ze Pollack posted:remember the tremendous pelosi-schumer triumph of Getting Donald Trump To Commit To DACA Before Tax Reform nope actually I don't remember that at all. Are you sure you're not confusing them for Jeff Flake?
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Dec 22, 2017 19:30
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Trabisnikof posted:nope actually I don't remember that at all. I remember a lot of gloating in the other thread around the time of the last extension about how Pelosi and Schumer were brilliant tacticians and how Trump had been played. Around the same time there was also some criticism towards Rep Gutierrez for his opposition to the agreement. Now I guess we're pretending that never happened Red and Black fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 19:33
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Here’s my question: why couldn’t the Democratic leadership have linked CHIP and DACA in negotiations? Both popular, both programs for children, both with ticking clocks. They might get blamed for allowing the government to shut down, but they have an easier fight than the Republicans on this.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:53
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Ze Pollack posted:hey remember back when DREAMers were being insouciant, unrealistic, arrogant, [surreptitiously checks thesaurus for other synonyms for "uppity"] little jerks for acting like Democratic support for their goals wasn't a given  Oh.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:58
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Democrazy posted:Here’s my question: why couldn’t the Democratic leadership have linked CHIP and DACA in negotiations? Both popular, both programs for children, both with ticking clocks. They might get blamed for allowing the government to shut down, but they have an easier fight than the Republicans on this.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:00
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Can someone explain quickly/simply why there's 2 votes for funding the government, 1 now and 1 in january? I don't know the details, but that article said, "the funding bill keeps the government open until Jan 19th", which seems short?
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Dec 22, 2017 20:03
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Ventana posted:Can someone explain quickly/simply why there's 2 votes for funding the government, 1 now and 1 in january? I don't know the details, but that article said, "the funding bill keeps the government open until Jan 19th", which seems short? That's because they couldn't get agreement to fund the government for longer. Mainly because Democrats are refusing to do so until they get DACA.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:07
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Even the milquetoast Obama bro centrists of pod save america are pissed off at democratic cowardice regarding daca.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:29
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joepinetree posted:Even the milquetoast Obama bro centrists of pod save america are pissed off at democratic cowardice regarding daca.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:37
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https://twitter.com/adamjohnsonNYC/status/944294408106766336 Yikes
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Dec 22, 2017 20:53
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https://twitter.com/TooManyVances/status/944295590275399680
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Dec 22, 2017 21:02
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https://twitter.com/rulajebreal/status/944274030059769858 lol
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Dec 22, 2017 22:01
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Chomskyan posted:I remember a lot of gloating in the other thread around the time of the last extension about how Pelosi and Schumer were brilliant tacticians and how Trump had been played. Around the same time there was also some criticism towards Rep Gutierrez for his opposition to the agreement. Now I guess we're pretending that never happened I mean, it would’ve been a smart plan if they didn’t gently caress it up.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:09
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Hey, he's not wrong that thousands of black voters are responsible for his loss! 
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Dec 22, 2017 22:12
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Democrazy posted:Here’s my question: why couldn’t the Democratic leadership have linked CHIP and DACA in negotiations? Both popular, both programs for children, both with ticking clocks. They might get blamed for allowing the government to shut down, but they have an easier fight than the Republicans on this. So when the government shuts down and CHIP is defunded, the real long term goal of republicans, republicans can then blame the democrats for shutting down the government and ending funding for CHIP because they held out for DACA.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:40
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You don't have to "give" the Republicans a chance to blame Democrats for something, they have and will continue to forever blame the Democrats for literally everything bad. They do not need plausible deniability, they will make something up if they have to. You can't oppose them by acting afraid of them pointing their god damned fingers at you.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:47
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yeah thats not funny
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Dec 22, 2017 22:49
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sirtommygunn posted:You don't have to "give" the Republicans a chance to blame Democrats for something, they have and will continue to forever blame the Democrats for literally everything bad. They do not need plausible deniability, they will make something up if they have to. You can't oppose them by acting afraid of them pointing their god damned fingers at you. So you want to shut the government down and kick 2 million kids off of health insurance on News Years Day and an additional 7 million in the following weeks? Children will die because of that decision.
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Dec 22, 2017 22:53
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karthun posted:So you want to shut the government down and kick 2 million kids off of health insurance on News Years Day and an additional 7 million in the following weeks? Children will die because of that decision. As opposed to January, when the decision is the same?
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Dec 22, 2017 23:08
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You can see the future?
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Dec 22, 2017 23:10
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:You can see the future? The decision facing democrats on January 19th is the same as the decision they faced this week. I obviously didn't mean that the democrats will make the same decision, but that the decision before them will be the same.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:15
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joepinetree posted:The decision facing democrats on January 19th is the same as the decision they faced this week. I obviously didn't mean that the democrats will make the same decision, but that the decision before them will be the same. True. Except CHIP has been funded for the immediate future so it's no longer the overriding priority.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:17
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:True. Except CHIP has been funded for the immediate future so it's no longer the overriding priority. The CR deal allocated 2.85 billion for CHIP. The yearly budget for CHIP is 14.5 billion. The 2.85 billion are supposed to cover the period starting on October 1st. So yes, it is just as much of a priority. https://ccf.georgetown.edu/2017/12/22/congress-approves-cr-but-fails-to-pass-long-term-chip-funding/
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Dec 22, 2017 23:25
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Well that complicates things.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:29
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I guess the real deciding factor will be in January. I hope that the people defending the Democrats right now won't just come up with another excuse if the Democrats aren't willing to fight for DACA in January (and I can already think of what the excuse would be - that the harm from a possible government shutdown isn't worth the risk). To be honest, the rationale for post-posting DACA to ensure CHIP funding is sort of reasonable on paper (though how reasonable it is depends heavily upon just how likely an attempt to also get DACA would have been to succeed), but what really makes me question the defense in this situation is the fact that a lot of mainstream liberals have come out against the decision to not fight for it. Like, this isn't a "leftists mad at Democrats" thing; there are mainstream Democrats like the PSA guy who also aren't happy with this, and these are people who will usually jump on any sort of plausible-sounding defense of Democratic behavior. edit: The stuff posted above also supports the argument that this is just kicking the can down the road, and suggests that priorities won't randomly change in January.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:32
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Koalas March posted:yeah thats not funny It's a little funny.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:32
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shutting down the government over things is stupid and bad and now that the republicans have thought it up doesn't mean now it has to be a democrat thing too. Blaming democrats for things republicans are doing is what people always say fox news mind control does to people, it doesn't need to be a thing democrats say too.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:shutting down the government over things is stupid and bad and now that the republicans have thought it up doesn't mean now it has to be a democrat thing too. Blaming democrats for things republicans are doing is what people always say fox news mind control does to people, it doesn't need to be a thing democrats say too. Shutting down the government is a tactic and DACA is a good reason to use it imo
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Dec 22, 2017 23:38
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Mechafunkzilla posted:It's a little funny. I missed the comma at first and thought it was a shootout between the cops and the seven year old, and somehow that didn't strike me as odd in this hosed up world.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:41
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Ytlaya posted:I guess the real deciding factor will be in January. I hope that the people defending the Democrats right now won't just come up with another excuse if the Democrats aren't willing to fight for DACA in January (and I can already think of what the excuse would be - that the harm from a possible government shutdown isn't worth the risk). The other reason some senate Democrats wanted to pass a temporary CR without DACA is because they believe the ongoing senate negotiations on a DACA bill might work. But yes, passing a long term CR or a budget without DACA would be a huge mistake. And it would be wise to pressure the senate Dems who voted for the CR to make sure they know the base will punish them.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:44
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:shutting down the government over things is stupid and bad and now that the republicans have thought it up doesn't mean now it has to be a democrat thing too. Blaming democrats for things republicans are doing is what people always say fox news mind control does to people, it doesn't need to be a thing democrats say too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7XVcqZodAM
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Dec 22, 2017 23:49
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Trabisnikof posted:The other reason some senate Democrats wanted to pass a temporary CR without DACA is because they believe the ongoing senate negotiations on a DACA bill might work. But yes, passing a long term CR or a budget without DACA would be a huge mistake. So in other words they're idiots?
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Dec 22, 2017 23:49
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karthun posted:So you want to shut the government down and kick 2 million kids off of health insurance on News Years Day and an additional 7 million in the following weeks? Children will die because of that decision. No, I don't want that, obviously. Me wanting DACA passed doesn't mean I'm just concern trolling in the hopes that children will die. I'm not arguing in favor of shutting the government down (though I feel threatening to do so is a valid strategy). I'm pointing out that your argument that Republicans will have the ability to assign blame to the Democrats doesn't have any merit to it because that has been a constant strategy of theirs regardless of whether Democrats had actually given them ammo or not. sirtommygunn fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 23:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:shutting down the government over things is stupid and bad and now that the republicans have thought it up doesn't mean now it has to be a democrat thing too. Blaming democrats for things republicans are doing is what people always say fox news mind control does to people, it doesn't need to be a thing democrats say too. Yeah, the lives of 800,000 people (plus countless others affected indirectly) is a small price to pay for decorum and civility.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:52
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