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Ferrinus posted:Acid spells which deal lower damage but corrode the enemy to temporarily lower its damage and armor. I feel like those are more appropriate as the province of a few specific spells, rather than entire schools. I wouldn't be opposed to an acid spell, with the focus on corrosion and control over damage, but I don't think acid should the new theme of poison. Different flavors of damage, even if the damage has low to mid impact special effects attached, still don't significantly change the way you play the game. Ideally, each spell school should have a clear play style attached to it, or at least a niche that changes the way your character approaches fights. And Crawl is actually really good about that, in general. Fire is pure offense, ice provides support to pretty much every role, air is wildly powerful offense with drawbacks, along with some defense and escape, earth is reliable offense along with stealth and utility. These schools' identity is determined not by the flavor of damage they do, but by the way they do it and by what else you get from investing in the school (e.g. an ice elementalist gets bolt of cold to deal damage, but the school's real identity comes from simulacrum, metabolic englaciation, ozo's armor and other powerful tools that come attached to the same package) cheetah7071 posted:I sorta like what hellcrawl did with magic, which was to just completely axe conjuration and poison magic. Dual-school conjuration spells became single school and single-school conjuration spells either got deleted if they were boring or classified as an element if they were cool (like air magic dart and earth orb of destruction). I'd suggest doing the same with poison--axe the school and reassign individually cool spells. Removing does go against the gooncrawl ethos though so I'm not even remotely proposing this for the initial pass. Removal of conjuration is one of my favorite changes in hellcrawl. I find it actually adds far more to the game than it removes, since casters now are heavily encouraged to focus on more than just the damage spells in their schools, which brings the unique design of each school much better into focus. I actually kind of like poison magic, except for how generally bad it is and how it just goes nowhere at the higher levels (no, PArrow is not enough). I wouldn't too sad if it were axed, but I'd rather design some new spells to improve it and rework venom mage as some kind of warrior mage background. cheetah7071 posted:I think the spell schools are pretty distinct at the bottom and top of their spell lists but get sorta murky and indistinct in the middle (do bolt of draining, fire, and ice all really have to be basically the same?). My first pass thought is replace bolt of draining with bolt of acid (a poison spell, corrosion and draining are pretty similar), replace bolt of fire with the projectile conjure flame draconians get, and just remove bolt of cold, replacing it with freezing cloud in all spellbooks containing it (and make it dual school instead of the brutal triple school). Hellcrawl removes bolt of cold, which I think is a good idea. It keeps bolt of draining, presumably not because the draining mechanic is itself interesting, but because a necromancer can shoot the bolts through their minions. I think bolt of fire is fine, it's a really good spell archetype and if bolt of cold were removed, that would make fire magic more appealing as the school focusing primarily on destruction. Bolt of venom and bolt of magma are just awful. I think magma should just be cut entirely and bolt of venom should be replaced by something else. Hellcrawl also axes lightning bolt and replaces it with fulminant prism, now an air spell, which is also a change that I like.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:19
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Freeze, Flame Tongue, Shock and Sandblast are all distinct. Fireball, Ball Lightning, Refridgeration and Rapid Deconstruction (and freezing cloud) are all distinct. Shatter, Tornado, Firestorm and Glaciate (and chain lightning) are all distinct. Even when you're going full offensive the elemental schools are very different. Bolts of Venom, Magma, Cold and Fire are pretty boring but everything else about the schools is special. Lightning and Draining are good bolts though imo. Even magic dart -> battlesphere -> orb is solidly different from those four schools. Which reminds me, another FR: Return battlesphere to the conjurer starting book.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:38
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Dee Ehm posted:Man, I hadn't played for almost two years after one of the servers went down and took a DEFE deep into extended with it. I've started up again, won with MiBe to get my feet wet again and hit my tenth win, and now I'm back in the swing of things with a DEFE^Vehumet who picked up a Ring of Fire, got to Lair and realized I have no idea anymore how to play a blaster caster in the midgame. Well, you're splitting experience in fire and ice and your currently memorized spells for them are dual-schooled with Conjurations. Why aren't you skilling Conjurations instead? Or using Mystic Blast instead of Throw Icicle for approximately the same niche (single target non-elemental magic damage)? Ditch the books that aren't going to provide you utility or blasting damage; you're likely never to Transmute yourself so Book of Changes is out and Hexing needs more investment than what you'll have in the midgame so toss that Book of Misfortune too. You might want to try out that troll leather armour in case you need to start kiting more often with Sticky Flame. I might be overvaluing regen though.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:47
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Dee Ehm posted:Man, I hadn't played for almost two years after one of the servers went down and took a DEFE deep into extended with it. I've started up again, won with MiBe to get my feet wet again and hit my tenth win, and now I'm back in the swing of things with a DEFE^Vehumet who picked up a Ring of Fire, got to Lair and realized I have no idea anymore how to play a blaster caster in the midgame. Looks pretty good! I wouldn't worry about picking up new spells right now, unless vehumet gives you something really good. Eventually, you're going to want something more than icicles for fire resistant enemies, but they'll serve you well for a long time. I'd either work on building up your spell schools to deal more damage with your spells or beefing up your defenses. The only piece of advice I'd give is to use conjure flame way more often. It's by far your most efficient damage spell, and I've seen it ranked as overall the best attack spell in the game for how much damage it can do compared to how much it costs to cast compared to how early you can cast it. It's more useful to beefier fire mages, though. Darox posted:Freeze, Flame Tongue, Shock and Sandblast are all distinct. Fireball, Ball Lightning, Refridgeration and Rapid Deconstruction (and freezing cloud) are all distinct. Shatter, Tornado, Firestorm and Glaciate (and chain lightning) are all distinct. Yeah, this is true. I like utility casters more, so I probably overlook how well designed most of the damage spells are. I still think there are quite a few overlapping spells, though the bolts are the worst example. Here's an idea for a poison spell to replace bolt of venom. Corrosive Siphon: poison 4 / whatever 4: targets an enemy and creates a constant beam of acid that flows from that enemy to you. It doesn't affect the target. The damage is not high, but it can add up fast and it corrodes everything it touches. This is shamelessly stolen from Pillars of Eternity, but I think it could work well in Crawl.
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Dec 22, 2017 15:58
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If ya'll gently caress up me finally getting to play with Virulence I will cut ya'. I just want to combo up a virulence, OTR, virulence, ignite poison to the demons of hell already!
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Dec 22, 2017 16:32
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Floodkiller, if you're still taking requests, I would like a timed Wizlab to spawn every game. They're great content.
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Dec 22, 2017 16:49
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Please bring back battlesphere.
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Dec 22, 2017 16:53
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Worthleast posted:Floodkiller, if you're still taking requests, I would like a timed Wizlab to spawn every game. They're great content. This is a Good Suggestion. Also, I love bazaars. More bazaars or opportunities to spend my money would be awesome.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:00
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World Famous W posted:If ya'll gently caress up me finally getting to play with Virulence I will cut ya'. I'd rather have Virulence, but actually good and worthwhile and interesting. Imagine if you could do the same, but virulence reduces rF also, so you absolutely torch the poo poo out of all those demons.
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Dec 22, 2017 17:33
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Bad suggestion: Add a Poison spell that ONLY works on undead, demons, and other poison-immune creatures
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Dec 22, 2017 17:45
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Worthleast posted:Floodkiller, if you're still taking requests, I would like a timed Wizlab to spawn every game. They're great content. This
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Dec 22, 2017 17:47
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Wizlabs are the best.
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Dec 22, 2017 18:15
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I'm extremely unexcited by poison magic personally but the gooncrawl ethos should be to add not remove at least at first so I'm not in favor of touching it in any way other than giving it a few high end spells. I sorta agree that axing conjurations does add to the game but I won't push on that point I agree on restoring battlesphere to the conjurer book for as long as the background exists though
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Dec 22, 2017 18:25
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I like poisonous vapors as an early smite spell. It's great
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Dec 22, 2017 18:30
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Sage Grimm posted:Well, you're splitting experience in fire and ice and your currently memorized spells for them are dual-schooled with Conjurations. Why aren't you skilling Conjurations instead? Or using Mystic Blast instead of Throw Icicle for approximately the same niche (single target non-elemental magic damage)? Ditch the books that aren't going to provide you utility or blasting damage; you're likely never to Transmute yourself so Book of Changes is out and Hexing needs more investment than what you'll have in the midgame so toss that Book of Misfortune too. Heithinn Grasida posted:Looks pretty good! I wouldn't worry about picking up new spells right now, unless vehumet gives you something really good. Eventually, you're going to want something more than icicles for fire resistant enemies, but they'll serve you well for a long time. I'd either work on building up your spell schools to deal more damage with your spells or beefing up your defenses. Thanks you guys. It went really well until I got greedy and tried to get into a Volcano, random blinked away from some enemies who had gotten on me, and found myself pulling a pack of dream sheep. Was my first time really seeing those things in action! Dream sheep are baaaaaaaaaaaad.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:33
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Dream sheep are cool but its really dumb that they just replaced every instance of sheep with them. Some vaults that had sheep in them as a joke became ridiculously dangerous because they now contain dream sheep, usually shoved behind a bunch of other monsters.
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Dec 22, 2017 19:46
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Do dream sheep still have the sticky flame interaction? If they do I'm not gonna mourn regular sheep because that was the only interesting thing about them
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Dec 22, 2017 19:50
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unfortunately, jiyva is also a bad god to worship late
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Dec 22, 2017 19:57
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Internet Kraken posted:Dream sheep are cool but its really dumb that they just replaced every instance of sheep with them. Some vaults that had sheep in them as a joke became ridiculously dangerous because they now contain dream sheep, usually shoved behind a bunch of other monsters. Uh Yeah....like a giant slaughterhouse filled with freezing clouds and dream sheep that also has death yaks and armed humans who open the doors and let them all out. You can possibly run into this one pre-Lair and pre-Orc. pre:##############################################################################
# Slaugherhouse (Zaba)
#
# Butchers have either knives (daggers) or hand axes. They have some chance
# of opening the doors so animals can go for a walk, that's intended.
#
NAME: slaughterhouse
DEPTH: Lair:5-, D:11-
TAGS: no_monster_gen
ORIENT: float
WEIGHT: 5
MARKER: F = lua:fog_machine { \
pow_max = 10, delay_min = 10, delay_max = 40, \
size = 4, size_buildup_amnt = 4, \
size_buildup_time = 25, cloud_type = "freezing vapour" \
}
MONS: death yak w:5 / dream sheep w:3 / yak w:7
MONS: generate_awake human ; dagger | hand axe
SUBST: F=d, 2=2.
ITEM: ration w:5 / nothing
MAP
cccccc ccccccc
cddddcxxxxxxxxcddddc
cdFdd+..+..+..+ddFdc
cddddcxxx..xxxcddddc
cccccc..x..x..cccccc
.........x2.x.........
.nnnnnn..x..x..nnnnnn.
.n1111nxxx..xxxn1111n.
.n1111+..+..+..+1111n.
.n1111nxxx..xxxn1111n.
.nnnnnn..x..x..nnnnnn.
.........x.2x.........
xxxxxx..x..x..xxxxxx
x...2xxxx..xxxx2...x
x..2.+..+..+..+.2..x
x...2xxxx..xxxx2...x
xxxxxx x..x xxxxxx
x++x
@.
ENDMAP
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Dec 22, 2017 19:59
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im a proponent of giving poison a high-end spell that uses acid
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Dec 22, 2017 20:00
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Tollymain posted:unfortunately, jiyva is also a bad god to worship late I like Jiyva as a crutch for extremely weak characters. Slimify is really, really good at pushing you through a 3-rune victory because OoFs are the only enemies it doesn't affect and it's basically a one-shot kill. Being able to commit to slimifying everything dangerous other than OoFs frees up all your other consumables for the orbs themselves so you can pop might/brilliance/haste/whatever like candy against them without worry
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Dec 22, 2017 20:04
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Balance thoughts : move Poisonous Vapours to level 1, remove/strongly buff Sting and Venom Bolt. Mephitic could easily move to something like level 4 Poison:Hexes as well. I'd love to see dual- and tri-school magic spells reworked so that the skill split wasn't even but was heavily weighted towards one of the schools. For instance, Poison Arrow (Poison Magic : Conjurations) could go from 50:50 to 67:33; Mephitic Cloud (Poison Magic : Air Magic : Conjurations) could go from 33:33:33 to 50:25:25. The ratios could be made to favour the primary school even more. (IMO obviously) Mephitic and PArrow are strong enough that they'd still be worth the investment, and you'd get rid of the goofy situation of being able to cast strong Mephitics with Poison Magic being your weakest skill. Personally, I find the Poison school to be a nice trade-off - two very good early- and mid-late-game spells, but nothing stronger than PArrow. Do you invest in Poison Magic and be more likely to reach the mid- or late-game but then perhaps struggle, or do you choose something else that might be weaker in the early game (depending on your choice) but would give you a better late-game? I think there's room for that sort of spell-set, just as there are gods that are better in the early- or late-game. But I equally understand why people hate that there's no Poison spell beefier than PArrow. Alternatively, make all the poison spells scale MUCH more with spellpower than the other schools. An idea for a low-level Poison spell : Caustic Sludge (or something, naming things is hard). Lasts for a few turns, mild damage each turn, AND slows the target dramatically / stops them moving entirely / the target takes significant damage when it moves (like barbs). Make it have a low cast range (maybe 1-tile always-hit like Freeze?), level 2 Poison:Earth maybe.
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Dec 22, 2017 20:21
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cheetah7071 posted:If they do I'm not gonna mourn regular sheep because that was the only interesting thing about them  FnF posted:Personally, I find the Poison school to be a nice trade-off - two very good early- and mid-late-game spells, but nothing stronger than PArrow. Do you invest in Poison Magic and be more likely to reach the mid- or late-game but then perhaps struggle, or do you choose something else that might be weaker in the early game (depending on your choice) but would give you a better late-game? Having one and only one skill be an exp trap (and most of the good poison spells are multi school so you can ignore it all together) has been something I been calling out a long time now.
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Dec 22, 2017 23:42
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Worthleast posted:Floodkiller, if you're still taking requests, I would like a timed Wizlab to spawn every game. They're great content. This. The amount of content crawl refuses to just spawn each game is hilarious, especially when they keep taking things out in addition to it.
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Dec 23, 2017 00:42
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I had this idea a few versions back but: I think the way to make Poison more interesting is to make it into Blood Magic. So it handles all sorts of chemical changes, not just poison. You can make Regeneration Blood Magic instead of Necromancy, and drop Transmutation from Ignite Poison. And it opens up the theme a lot for new stuff. You could have the Demonspawn Ignite Blood power as a spell, or something like the Witcher Black Blood power (that makes enemies who vamp you take damage). You could have a spell where big spikes of damage give you temp AC because your blood comes out solid. Capstone could just be a higher level Regeneration (with Hellcrawl buff system, this would just be legit as hell instead of annoying).
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Dec 23, 2017 01:10
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Worthleast posted:Floodkiller, if you're still taking requests, I would like a timed Wizlab to spawn every game. They're great content. I will always take feature requests and put them in the next polls, I just had to draw the line somewhere right now to start to get the ball rolling. I'll update the wiki page with everything I missed once I have the time to do so (currently driving home for the holidays and beat from driving all day). I'll probably get around to closing the current poll and compiling results sometime around Christmas Eve as well, so get your votes in if you haven't already! E: Plugging the link again: https://goo.gl/forms/dUNVjwRSWNHMQvvi2 E2: If you know any other goons who play Crawl but don't frequent the thread, let them know about the poll as well! Floodkiller fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 03:57
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Did the survey from my phone. Dude this is awesome. Thanks for the initiative. Can't wait to see what happens.
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Dec 23, 2017 05:32
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Floodkiller posted:I will always take feature requests and put them in the next polls, I just had to draw the line somewhere right now to start to get the ball rolling. I'll update the wiki page with everything I missed once I have the time to do so (currently driving home for the holidays and beat from driving all day). Oh my gosh I'd forgotten Singularity. I'd loved that spell. 
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Dec 23, 2017 05:43
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I'm in for this is you guys make crawl that wacky and awesome roguelike that got me into the genre.
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Dec 23, 2017 05:53
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jivya loving owns and jivya should be accessible to everyone would having to slog through slime pits
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Dec 23, 2017 06:08
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I think jivya sucks. Find a good spell book, have like 35 int, now it's 7 int and a bunch of strength but you have nothing better than a + 1 flail of venom. On lair 6
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Dec 23, 2017 06:35
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My biggest beef with Jiyva other than stat-shuffling being notably terrible, is that you don't ever get to keep her unique mutations (or any mutations, really) long enough to enjoy having them. It's like, "oh cool I can cause confusion in melee -- oh, no I can't anymore, whoop." A way to lock in mutations somehow is something I'd really like to see from a Jiyva reform
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Dec 23, 2017 06:39
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At the very least, Jiyva should be weighted to add more levels to existing mutations than to remove any. You're basically never going to see unique Jivya muts above level one normally.
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Dec 23, 2017 06:43
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I actually kinda like mutation set shuffling bc it forces you to adapt, but for similar reasons I don't like the stat shuffling. I feel that takes the concept to an extreme. Losing armor scales for a breath attack is way different from I can cast meph cloud to I can't cast it.
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Dec 23, 2017 06:44
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I am Otis posted:I think jivya sucks. Find a good spell book, have like 35 int, now it's 7 int and a bunch of strength but you have nothing better than a + 1 flail of venom. On lair 6 Jiyva's strenghs are a lot of beneficial mutations and a one-hit-kill ability on many types of monsters, as well as the limited utility hp/mp return on slurps and being engorged most of the time. You're not really meant to worship it as soon as you see it without taking into account what your character will be like and if it would benefit from the god during this or any stage.of the game. Probably the most popular time to worship jiyva is after clearing two or three branches and you're missing some sort of resist or equip you're really hurting for, or you'd rather skip vaults:5 with your character. Changing to Jiyva from Fedhas was quite fun if you were out of oklob ammunition. If you're depending on int heavily to cast spells/do damage with high spellpower, Jiyva will be a lackluster choice. Otherwise it is an excellent god for late-mid-to-late game.
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Dec 23, 2017 06:47
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jivya is cool because its fun and funny which is the point of video games
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Dec 23, 2017 06:50
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I'd like to see Jiyva turn you into the most noble and jellied shape, round - all stats balanced. Then at least stat shuffle would be comprehensible.
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Dec 23, 2017 07:08
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violent sex idiot posted:jivya is cool because its fun and funny which is the point of video games mods?
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Dec 23, 2017 07:17
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I sorta agree Jiyva could use some love. My personal vote is that Jiyva's niche is as an equalizer--a god that can serve as a crutch to weak characters but doesn't do very much for strong characters. I really like that niche but would be perfectly fine seeing her made less annoying within that niche. e: that role is probably why Jiyva is not a temple god in dev logic but then why is TOS a temple god. Options are fun imo cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Dec 23, 2017 |
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Dec 23, 2017 08:18
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Samog posted:mods? dpeg can’t save you now
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Dec 23, 2017 08:39
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