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Dirk Pitt posted:It seems odd to me that S is supporting raising the retirement age, or is this just more shifting to the right that I lived through with Democrats in America. It is also a necessity to make the pension system work in its current form, people are living longer on average and the system can't pay for those extra years without raising the retirement age. It's either that, higher taxes or cutting those costs elsewhere.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:15
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Zudgemud posted:It is also a necessity to make the pension system work in its current form, people are living longer on average and the system can't pay for those extra years without raising the retirement age. It's either that, higher taxes or cutting those costs elsewhere. The current Social Democratic government is fervently committed to not increasing taxes (for reasons that are getting muddier by the minute) so it was this or the highway. See also how they've handled the sick-leave insurance.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:23
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MiddleOne posted:The current Social Democratic government is fervently committed to not increasing taxes (for reasons that are getting muddier by the minute) so it was this or the highway. See also how they've handled the sick-leave insurance. Yeah, the somewhat legitimate claims of demographic changes representing a possible problem, has turned into the main excuse for austerity measures and the dismantling of the welfare state - which has been the foundation of the incredibly success of the scandianvian societies since before ww2. For some reason S has completely co-opted the neo-conservative economic ideals, in a total abandonment of their labour base. Meanwhile no one talk about how we as a society as a whole has never wealthier, record profits for the private sector, and inequality is steadily rising.
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Dec 14, 2017 17:43
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MiddleOne posted:The current Social Democratic government is fervently committed to not increasing taxes (for reasons that are getting muddier by the minute) so it was this or the highway. See also how they've handled the sick-leave insurance. I'm curious, can you do a brief explanation on sick leave? I find the policy pretty good here compared to the states where I was working sick for the majority of the time and getting everyone around me sick and them getting me sick. Dirk Pitt fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 17:56
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Dirk Pitt posted:I'm curious, can you do a brief explanation on sick leave? I find the policy pretty good here compared to the states where I was working sick for the majority of the time and getting everyone around me sick and them getting me sick. The base policy is pretty good but it has been steadily getting eroded over the last 2 governments. Like many countries Sweden has a growing epidemic of long-term work-related sickness in our population and this has increased costs for the system. It's still quite decent in the short-term (day 2-14) but after is when the last decades changes in government policy start effecting you. The last government for example to cut the total number of recipients added a bunch of incentive mechanisms to 'motivate' the sick to get back to work (even if it was just for part-time), your work-capability was basically assessed and not by your doctor but by your case handler. As a cherry on top they also added a maximum limit of days which upon reaching you were automatically dropped no matter what your current condition. This successfully cut costs but as you can imagine this was also quite unpopular as cancer patients and whatnot really can't decide to just feel better. Enter 2016, the Social Democrats having campaigned on getting rid of the titular 'stupstocken' jumped right into things and removed the limit. However, as the underlying problems causing the sickness were never addressed costs started ramping up again as people who were previously kicked out re-qualified. For the Social Democrats who enjoyed nothing more than masturbating in public television about how fiscally responsible they were this simply could not stand. So what they did was to impose a goal on Försäkringskassan that the average number of sick-days per year should not exceed 9 days for the population. As you remember from my previous paragraph the previous government gave case-handlers an extended mandate to ignore doctor recommendations if they believed applicants were work-eligible and this mandate remained. So as Försäkringskassan has no way to decrease workplace sickness they instead started using this mandate more arbitrarily and harshly when making their assessments in order to facilitate meeting the goal. This successfully cut costs, but by once again kicking sick people out of the system. Enter today were people are once again furious and there is yet another election on the horizon. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Dec 14, 2017 |
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Dec 14, 2017 23:54
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widunder posted:especially not among the hazara population who make up the lion's share of the people coming to Sweden. Like the 16-year-old kid, Abolfazl Vaziri, that our government basically delivered to the Taliban to be executed. Now his older brother is a refugee in Iran.
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Dec 15, 2017 20:44
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Zudgemud posted:It is also a necessity to make the pension system work in its current form, people are living longer on average and the system can't pay for those extra years without raising the retirement age. It's either that, higher taxes or cutting those costs elsewhere.
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Dec 16, 2017 15:18
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evil_bunnY posted:You could also choose to not specifically ratfuck the people who aren’t retired yet. Just a thought. But how are we supposed to keep cutting taxes without all the ratfucking? You're being unreasonable here. 
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Dec 17, 2017 11:26
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In other lovely danskjävlar news, the Social Democrats ensured a majority for the government to no longer accept UN quota refugees. These are the most vulnerable (confirmed) refugees, most of them Syrians, Congolese and Iraqis, two nationalities we've been actively bombing. Literally worse than Trump's America regarding refugees now and the Social Democrats are making it happen, so I guess that's something.
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Dec 22, 2017 03:11
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SplitSoul posted:In other lovely danskjävlar news, the Social Democrats ensured a majority for the government to no longer accept UN quota refugees. These are the most vulnerable (confirmed) refugees, most of them Syrians, Congolese and Iraqis, two nationalities we've been actively bombing. Literally worse than Trump's America regarding refugees now and the Social Democrats are making it happen, so I guess that's something. That is loving stupid. Those are pretty much exactly the type of refugees that should be prioritised in front of asylum seekers shopping for the right country. You really do the race to the bottom in Denmark. In Sweden, the right-wing parties (M, Lib, C and Kd) have talked about that asylum should only be offered to UN quota refugees, which at least is a more consistent position. And considering how underfinanced the UN refugee, any kind of relief to that system is good.
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Dec 22, 2017 07:49
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Cardiac posted:That is loving stupid. You're very naive if you can't see how it is this exact moving of the goalposts that got Denmark into its current predicament. The end-goal of the alt-right ideology is not functioning immigration, that's just rhetoric, it's no immigration. To put into perspective just how insanely crappy Denmark's new position is, the UN quotas obliged Denmark to receive a staggering 500 refugees annually. Even that was considered too much under the new norm. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 08:01
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MiddleOne posted:You're very naive if you can't see how it is this exact moving of the goalposts that got Denmark into its current predicament. The end-goal of the alt-right ideology is not functioning immigration, that's just rhetoric, it's no immigration. The problem is that the bulk of the refugees arriving come outside of those systems, and are naturally mostly military age men around 25-35 as a consequence. This is deeply unpopular with the vast majority of europeans and incentivizes governments to do anything they can to "cut back". Quota refugees are alot easier to deal with (i.e. reduce numbers) than those who apply for asylum under the EU convention rules, all for legal reasons. The problem is that we have a system that is unsustainable and tailor made for human misery, political instability and resentments. Unless we fundamentally reconsider the entire makeup of our current system the problem will only get worse, and I believe the union will fragment if the outer border is ever destroyed again. Fact of the matter is that the majority of the people drowning off the libyan coast every week are economic migrants who have been sold a fantasy by human trafficers, a fantasy enabled by standing EU rules. Imo a union wide quota system in co-operation with UNHCR would be ideal, coupled with a scrapping of the geneva convention framework of letting people apply for asylum wherever they drat please. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Dec 22, 2017 |
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Dec 22, 2017 20:17
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Sure was a fantastic idea to bomb Libya, so that the Al-Qaeda-aligned militias that supplied thousands of jihadists for the Iraq Civil War, another atrocity that we're partly responsible for, could murder all the black people they came across and open the door for literal slave markets and systematic torture, extortion and rape far beyond what the late bayonet-sodomised dictator would dish out. Anyway, these are the people of which we couldn't possibly handle 500, what with the tax cuts and the crumbling welfare and the increasing inequality that these very same politicians also voted for: 
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Dec 23, 2017 08:06
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God jul folkens
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Dec 24, 2017 21:59
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"Frem med julekuglerne" Hohohoooo Nu kommer jeg Alle går omkring og juler Jeg har pudset mine kugler Sukkerstangen får du ikke Selv om den stråler i al sin glans Du må vente med at slikke Vi skal nemlig ha en jule-dans Ind og ud og alle vegne Får du af min juleklejne Julebukken har du vækket Nu vil han ud på den store tur Og når bordet er bedækket Rider vi omkring i alles stuer Nu det jul igen og nu det jul igen Og Holger juul og Erik påske Lillemor tag fat om pungen Du skal få lidt godt til tungen Lalalalala og Grethe synk Se min nisse han vil drille Se hvor han kigger frem fra sit skjul Du skal lære ham at spille Han skal også mærke det er jul Jul jul jul jul jul jul Han skal også mærke det er jul Venner kom nu skal vi solde Juleslik og julebolle Gåsen hun skal op på disken Så skal hun få hvad hun trænger til Ud med benene, ind med svesken Sikke dog et herligt krybbespil Ud med benene, ind med svesken Sikke dog et herligt krybbespil Nu vil pigerne ikke mere Derfor må vi onananananas Men det varer ikke længe For der var noget de ikke fik Skønt det koster mange penge Skal de ha en masse julegløgg Hohohooooo nu kommer jeg igen Discuss.
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Dec 24, 2017 23:21
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Dec 25, 2017 10:03
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SplitSoul posted:Sure was a fantastic idea to bomb Libya, so that the Al-Qaeda-aligned militias that supplied thousands of jihadists for the Iraq Civil War, another atrocity that we're partly responsible for, could murder all the black people they came across and open the door for literal slave markets and systematic torture, extortion and rape far beyond what the late bayonet-sodomised dictator would dish out. Removing Gadaffi wasn't wrong. Not giving any thought to what comes after or making more than a token effort to support the construction of civil society is how things go to poo poo.
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Dec 25, 2017 12:12
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Randarkman posted:Removing Gadaffi wasn't wrong. Not giving any thought to what comes after or making more than a token effort to support the construction of civil society is how things go to poo poo. When you know beforehand that these interventions never plans or budgets for a realistic reconstruction and civil society building aftermath, then removing Gaddafi was wrong. He could have been enticed to de escalate the situation in many different ways beside acting as rebel airforce.
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Dec 25, 2017 12:46
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Zudgemud posted:When you know beforehand that these interventions never plans or budgets for a realistic reconstruction and civil society building aftermath, then removing Gaddafi was wrong. He could have been enticed to de escalate the situation in many different ways beside acting as rebel airforce. The conflict happened because Gaddafi refused to do anything but escalate the situation. The alternative was letting him quash the rebels and disappear the protestors.
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Dec 25, 2017 12:52
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MiddleOne posted:The conflict happened because Gaddafi refused to do anything but escalate the situation. The alternative was letting him quash the rebels and disappear the protestors. His ports could have been more effectively blocked, the country could be cut off from essential financial services, and any major military action from both parts could have been hinderd via bombing to force a stalemate and cease fire enforced by other parties. Really, just implementing a no fly zone as was seemingly intended would probably have been had a serious de escalating effect.
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Dec 25, 2017 13:29
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MiddleOne posted:The conflict happened because Gaddafi refused to do anything but escalate the situation. The alternative was letting him quash the rebels and disappear the protestors. Yeah, see, turns out that this wasn't exactly the whole truth. quote:The Libya inquiry, which was launched in July 2015, is based on more than a year of research and interviews with politicians, academics, journalists and more. The report, which was released on Sept. 14, reveals the following:
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Dec 25, 2017 13:46
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Cerebral Bore posted:Yeah, see, turns out that this wasn't exactly the whole truth. Salon. Anyway the fact remains that the government responded extremely violently to the protests, and were killing and bombing indiscriminately. There were airstrikes conducted against protestors. It is only natural they armed themselves and fought back. Unless of course you think that any uprising should just roll over and submit when the authorities respond with violence. Libya was comparatively wealthy but the population were feeling the effects of economic stagnation and a high rate of unemployment, inn addition to this considerable political repression was common-place, and civil society and political infrastructure almost non-existent, all centered around Gaddafi and his cronies and loosely to his inconsistent personal ideology. This is a large part of why moving on from Gaddafi was going to be troublesome regardless.
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Dec 25, 2017 14:06
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Randarkman posted:Salon. They're literally referring to a report produced by the British Parliament, ya dingus. quote:"Despite his rhetoric, the proposition that Muammar Gaddafi would have ordered the massacre of civilians in Benghazi was not supported by the available evidence," the Foreign Affairs Committee states clearly. I'm not sure why you're so invested in believing what we now know is mostly complete fabrication and officially admitted to be such by one of the countries that was attacking Gadaffi.
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Dec 25, 2017 14:29
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Cerebral Bore posted:They're literally referring to a report produced by the British Parliament, ya dingus. Poor innocent Gaddafi. I think what was going on probably is more important than what was planned or not planned. Though I do know the prospect of a humanitarian disaster was the justification used for intervention. I also do not believe what we know is a fabrication. I never the less believe that people in Libya were justified in rising up against a dictator who murdered his people rather than listen to them. The existence of specific plans to massacre or violently repress opposition does not change the nature of Gaddafi's regime or excuse its actions during the uprising. Neither does the involvement of Islamists, jihadists or the eventual foreign intervention. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 14:40
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Randarkman posted:Poor innocent Gaddafi. I think what was going on probably is more important than what was planned or not planned. Though I do know the prospect of a humanitarian disaster was the justification used for intervention. The report literally concludes that Gadaffi wasn't actually massacring innocent civilians, and that the intervening powers didn't know what was going on on the ground but rather justified their intervention with what Gadaffi said rather than what he did. Of course, as the report also concludes, the actual reason for the intervention was that the French wanted to get rid of Gadaffi for political reasons. Besides that, I still don't get why you're so invested in defending a buncha lies you were told back then, especially when the result of those lies has been far worse than even the biggest humanitarian disaster predicted by said lies. Randarkman posted:I also do not believe what we know is a fabrication. So to get this straight, you're saying that the British House of Commons foreign affairs committee is lying?
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Dec 25, 2017 14:51
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Cerebral Bore posted:So to get this straight, you're saying that the British House of Commons foreign affairs committee is lying? No. Reading a bit through it it definitely seems to have a point. It does seem to refer more specifically to whether actions were carried out after places were seized. By humanitarian disaster I meant the outcome warned against that seems to have been an exaggeration. I will have to look it up again. But Gaddafi's forces definitely did respond brutally against the initial protests which then turned into armed revolt. According to the course of events I can recall. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 15:02
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I suggest you read the report. It goes into quite some detail about what actually happened, and why the intervening powers were bullshitting completely when selling the intervention. Incidentally it also explains why Libya fell the gently caress apart, which is because said powers didn't give a poo poo about actually protecting anyone there.
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Dec 25, 2017 15:49
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Nobody said Gaddafi was a good guy, but the fact is that his security forces were trained by the British until shortly before the Arab Spring. They did that after he gave up his ancient WMD following the invasion of Iraq. He got offed because he had plans for a dinar-based pan-African currency and the French didn't like it, not for any humanitarian reasons. There's no such thing as a humanitarian intervention. Benghazi was the main supplier of foreign jihadists for the Iraq Civil War. Gaddafi said he was fighting Al-Qaeda among others, which was absolutely true. Any sensible person knew how it would play out. SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 19:00
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In more local news https://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=101&artikel=6770148 Sweden has 5 times as many shootings than Germany and Norway, and is in parity with southern Italy and Mexico. "Det skjuts betydligt mer i Sverige än i de flesta andra europeiska länder i förhållande till folkmängden. Det kan forskare nu slå fast efter att ha genomfört den största studien om saken. I förhållande till folkmängden sker fyra till fem gånger så många skottlossningar med dödlig utgång i Sverige som i Norge och Tyskland, visar en färsk forskningsrapport. Malmö är den stad i Sverige som i förhållande till sin befolkning har haft störst problem med skottlossningar av våra tre storstäder. Manne Gerell som är kriminolog på Malmö högskola berättar att bara under de senaste veckorna är det flera personer i Malmö som blivit skjutna. – Vi kan se en fyrdubblad risk för en skjutning på en plats där det redan varit en. Och i ett utsatt område kan risken vara ännu större. Men vi är inte riktigt framme, vi behöver studera noggrannare och komma fram till bättre resultat. Sverige ligger snarare i paritet med södra Italien och Mexiko, säger Joakim Sturup, kriminolog och en av forskarna bakom studien. – När vi talar med poliser och forskarkolleger utomlands är det svårt att hitta en motsvarighet i andra länder, säger han. Nu arbetar han och hans kolleger med att borra djupare i frågan varför. Forskarna kan redan konstatera att det grova våldet har gått ner i åldrarna och att det flyttat från mc-gängs-miljön till storstädernas ytterområden. Men vad som, i dessa grupper, gör att våldet spetsas till kan de i dagsläget inte svara på. – Vi vet inte om det är en ökad förekomst av illegala vapen i de här miljöerna eller om det beror på att det finns en tendens att snabbare använda de vapen som finns. Men någonting har hänt, säger Joakim Sturup." I'd say that this is cause for alarm, no matter which way you slice it.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:24
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I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this is probably one of them cases where very low absolute numbers make for high-sounding multipliers.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:28
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Cerebral Bore posted:I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this is probably one of them cases where very low absolute numbers make for high-sounding multipliers. Homicides per capita is the standard measure for violence in society, simply since deaths are easy to measure. For a Western European country you typically are on a level of 1 per 100 000. Last year there were like 10 murders in Malmö per 300 000 inhabitants ie a murder level comparable to Eastern Europe.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:35
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Cardiac posted:Homicides per capita is the standard measure for violence in society, simply since deaths are easy to measure. For a Western European country you typically are on a level of 1 per 100 000.
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Dec 27, 2017 16:54
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Cardiac posted:Homicides per capita is the standard measure for violence in society, simply since deaths are easy to measure. For a Western European country you typically are on a level of 1 per 100 000. Is the fact that homicides generally aren't evenly spread throughout the country some kind of new and exciting fact to you that you felt compelled to share, or what?
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Dec 27, 2017 17:00
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Cerebral Bore posted:Is the fact that homicides generally aren't evenly spread throughout the country some kind of new and exciting fact to you that you felt compelled to share, or what? Posts like this make Cardiac look less terrible just by comparison. Like, why even post if this is the level you're aiming for?
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Dec 27, 2017 17:09
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Beeswax posted:Posts like this make Cardiac look less terrible just by comparison. Like, why even post if this is the level you're aiming for? I'm sorry that I've lowered the level of discourse from your lofty level of posting about posting.
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Dec 27, 2017 17:11
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https://www.bra.se/brott-och-statistik/kriminalstatistik/konstaterade-fall-av-dodligt-vald.html Deadly violence is pretty much stagnant in Sweden in the long-term with variations over time mostly based on the resurgence/collapse of competing organized crime organizations. That the amount of shootings are increasing is noteworthy but overall making the argument that deadly violence has increased is more than debatable. If you look at OECD comparisons over time you can also see that this is a category where Sweden has always been decisively average, unlike our neighbors like Norway which has had very little deadly violence and Finland which has had a lot of deadly violence. EDIT: That's without even going into how the Swedish economy is currently extremely strong which spikes demand for narcotics and human trafficking and makes the black market less risk-averse. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Dec 27, 2017 |
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Dec 27, 2017 18:15
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No, I think you'll find that it's the Musselman turning Sweden into cartel/mafia country, unfortunately for Mexico having your head severed and tossed in the street isn't a shooting.
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Dec 27, 2017 20:58
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https://twitter.com/lagreus/status/953030721584746497 Ugh...
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Jan 16, 2018 17:30
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https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i/zLrpnK/den-svenske-gjengkrigen-131-skutt-og-drept-p%C3%A5-syv-%C3%A5r What is going on in Sweden? 131 dead, 520 wounded. 1500 shootings (over 7 years). Bad aim for sure but still, what is rotten in Sweden? Why does this happen? Is this a result of beautiful multi culture or is there another reason? We don't have this in Norway or Denmark so I find it kinda strange. ofc, also gently caress sweden :-D
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Jan 24, 2018 09:54
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Heinz Hynkel posted:https://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/i/zLrpnK/den-svenske-gjengkrigen-131-skutt-og-drept-p%C3%A5-syv-%C3%A5r Just grow some balls and say what you really think.
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Jan 24, 2018 09:55
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