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grobbo posted:This scene was endlessly fascinating. The Fogteeth gang is portrayed as a lot better, morally, than the cops. Did you not pay attention to the entire monologue about how they held parties that put racial harmony at the forefront until the cops showed up? The kid leaving and getting respectfully dismissed by his father after a bunch of hype about how its his first kill and a big moment shows that the orc boss understands and respects Jakoby, but the process of killing him is still what he has to do to protect his rear end, logically.
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Dec 25, 2017 00:52
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This entire movie basically promotes humanity (the concept, not the race) and racial unity and is aggressively anti-police and institutional corruption/racism. People who think it has "insidious" or somehow negative or damaging racial politics didn't pay enough attention to this shallow children's film. Like, if you think the kid being in Fogteeth makes him a bad person or you think the gang itself and its leader are bad people because of their position in complicated, lovely situations, you are the person with insidious, lovely racial politics.
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Dec 25, 2017 00:54
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grobbo posted:He's proven to be completely right, though. In fact, it's the only piece of actual detective work that occurs in the movie. Jakoby is portrayed as nervous and anxious about being a good officer. You are stereotyping his actions by viewing them through the explicitly stated as racist lens of the racists in the film. This means you are like, innately or reflexively racist and I'm made uncomfortable by this. "Behaving like a police officer" is not shown to be a good thing in this world. Police officers are, in majority, corrupt, dangerous, untrustworthy, and the only good cops are the protagonists, a state sheriff outside of the department, and the feds. Jakoby thinks he's doing it for the right reasons, because he is. The innocent kid is not guilty or a piece of poo poo because he's in a gang. This is, again, your racism. The narrative DOES explicitly show this as a rational act of kindness, and it is carefully explained to the viewer and Ward that he saved the kid because if the cops see an orc that isnt in a police uniform, they're going to shoot and kill him before they even know what's going on. They don't say "you'd have locked him up because you're goblin racists". Jakoby explicitly calls out the fact that the police will extrajudicially murder any orc suspected of a crime, and Ward accepts this as fact instantly and understands. If you don't understand the parallel to the police shootings of black people and other poor minorities in America or are somehow willfully remaining ignorant of this to support your own racist points I'm ashamed. Under the vegetable fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 01:03
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Jakoby is consistently the most rational, level headed, and aware person in the film and I feel like I'm going insane and arguing with the Internal Affairs cop from the movie that you're saying he's a dumb brute.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:07
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I really felt like the movie bungled a lot of its potential by adhering so closely to Ayers regular wheelhouse. It's like, why is this Latino gang being given so much screen time in a world filled with Tolkien iconography? Was there really nothing they could have slotted in their place to better take advantage of the setting? No zombie gang or Dwarf militia? Also, hugely disappointed that Will Smith didn't end up using that big gently caress off broadsword they took off that dude earlier in the movie. Plus for all of the praise about worldbuilding, like it didn't do that great of a job? Smith being a Bright seems likes it supposed to land with some kind of grand revelatory beat, but nothing seems to come of it and there's so little context given to what Brights are that it didn't really land. In its positives, the performance were generally pretty good, and the movie was well shot. I also really dug the gas station shootout with the car in the mini-mart. That was a really cool set piece.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:19
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Fart City posted:I really felt like the movie bungled a lot of its potential by adhering so closely to Ayers regular wheelhouse. It's like, why is this Latino gang being given so much screen time in a world filled with Tolkien iconography? Was there really nothing they could have slotted in their place to better take advantage of the setting? No zombie gang or Dwarf militia? Also, hugely disappointed that Will Smith didn't end up using that big gently caress off broadsword they took off that dude earlier in the movie. Plus for all of the praise about worldbuilding, like it didn't do that great of a job? Smith being a Bright seems likes it supposed to land with some kind of grand revelatory beat, but nothing seems to come of it and there's so little context given to what Brights are that it didn't really land. to be honest not having a significant latino presence in a movie set in LA would be really dumb and racist in itself. i enjoyed that an organized group of guys with guns were still a major threat. guns are really dangerous! Brights are wizards. That's plenty of context. You use magic wands with "spell words", only wizards can use them.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:21
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I think I'm gonna watch it again the next time I'm bored. It was a fine movie, there were a few things that made me sigh for how awkward they were. Like elves doing flip jumps like circus acrobats because for some reason they can't run like everyone else. Actually. That was funny, I'm remembering those scenes and I wanna burst in laughter. Hope the sequel is really a thing and they decide to go heavier on the buddy cop adventures side, which was the best part. Orc cop and human cop most investigate a mysterious murder and they end up discovering a dwarf cartel/elf politicians' evil plans or something, and they most save the president/king of whatever the fantasy USA has. Also, centaur cop shows up every 5 minutes, because that was loving great.
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Dec 25, 2017 01:59
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Third act drags a little, and the epilogue is too long. Otherwise, a solid action-fantasy movie; I rate it about par with The Last Witchhunter or The Crow. Almost all professional critics are trash, film at 11. And if you can, track down Max Landis' original screenplay. If anything Ayer toned DOWN the gratuitous swearing/edginess.
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Dec 25, 2017 02:19
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Under the vegetable posted:if you don't understand the parallel to the police shootings of black people and other poor minorities in America or are somehow willfully remaining ignorant of this to support your own racist points I'm ashamed. This got intense fast. Look, this is my stall: The IA cop racistly sneers that blue/green orcs can't jump. They can't, and this turns out to be a relevant plot point. In general, and in a very obvious analogue to prejudiced and toxic portrayals of working-class African-Americans, the cop treat orcs as a criminal underclass predisposed to violence. We only meet one 'civilian' orc during the movie, an innocent kid who's mistaken for a criminal and would-be cop-killer. We next see him attending the torture and murder of two cops, where he's called upon to kill one personally in what appears to be a standard coming-of-age ritual for his initiation into the criminal world. Ward's kid claims that 'Orcs are dumb' - again, a common racist talking point. This is explicitly set up right at the start for the movie to knock down, so you'd expect Jakoby to have a scene where he uses his smarts or intelligence to save the day. He never does. Instead, all the way through to the climax, he requires direction (count the number of times he needs to be told to fire his gun) and he continually commits small screw-ups. All of these are called out in the script; it's not me being subjective here. ('Where's the girl?' 'I lost her!' 'Ohh, I dropped the wand!').The movie ends with him bumblingly confessing everything to the FBI, seconds after being told not to. It's literally a Baldrick dim-sidekick routine. I dunno, I guess I just don't think it's obtuse, or somehow indicative of 'lovely racial beliefs', to point out that this kid's movie keeps reinforcing its own established, and highly-charged stereotypes right when you think it'd be challenging them. Nor does it really seem like much of a counter-argument to say, 'Well, the obvious minority-ethnic analogues were portrayed as murderous criminals with a literal murder-hole in the middle of their floor, but the cops were racists just like in real life, who's the real racist now??'
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Dec 25, 2017 07:47
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What you're missing is that IRL we minorities are actually not superheroes and we usually don't get to really stick it to people who pwn us. Like in a version of this movie that's trite and dumb, Jakoby ends up saving the day through fast thinking that causes Ward to turn around and go "hey man, I really had it all wrong..." what's actually going on is Jakoby is a neophyte and a scared nerd who's not particularly brilliant or extraordinarily capable so he looks like a putz next to his partner with twenty years' experience.
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Dec 25, 2017 07:56
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Yeah I was kind of under the impression Nick was younger than Ward by at least a good 10-15 years. Inexperienced, fresh out the Academy.
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Dec 25, 2017 08:29
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A big part of the interaction between Ward and Jakoby is that Jakoby clearly wants to have the sort of traditional buddy-cop banter with his partner but really has no idea how much is "too much." This will be familiar to anyone who's been new at a job beside an old-timer you really want to impress. In the initial driving scene you can actually see him remodulate himself several times to try and match Ward's 'mood'---meanwhile, watch Will Smith's eyes in that exchange. He smiles and laughs but Jakoby isn't wrong at the end of the movie when he says Ward was looking at him with pure hate.
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Dec 25, 2017 08:40
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Bright wasn't nearly as coherent, consistent, or as well shot as this vastly superior short film. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQr0HCIN2w
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Dec 25, 2017 08:41
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grobbo posted:Nor does it really seem like much of a counter-argument to say, 'Well, the obvious minority-ethnic analogues were portrayed as murderous criminals with a literal murder-hole in the middle of their floor, but the cops were racists just like in real life, who's the real racist now??' Meanwhile Joel Edgerton, who plays Nick, is white. In a film that's ostensibly about highlighting the institutional violences that people of color face, they do this by portraying numerous people of color as corrupt and abusive while the "model minority" is actually a white guy under makeup. That's..........I honestly don't know what that is or how to feel about it. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Dec 25, 2017 |
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Dec 25, 2017 09:05
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1) are you loving joking who cares who's under the orc makeup it's not real 2) actually the film is not "highlighting the institutional violences that people of color face." it's an action-fantasy movie about a reluctant team of a human cop and an orc cop who must stop a diabolist ninja death cult from bringing about the end of the world--amidst a city mired in institutional racism. 3) There are many people of color that are corrupt, or abrasive, and some are even both, and a lot of those motherfuckers are in the LAPD, in the real world and in the world of this film
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Dec 25, 2017 09:15
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BrianWilly posted:It's also a wee bit unsettling to me that so many of the corrupt cops, especially those on the higher echelon like the sergeant and the internal review guys, were played by people of color. It feels like an attempt to try and get the message to resonate better with white people, frankly.
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Dec 25, 2017 10:05
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I am not really understanding the huge hate and love for this movie. Mainly critically where you get the indiewire review, which really just felt like it was riding the Landis hate sentiment (gently caress the creep) to the regular users who think a fairly tone deaf genre mishmash is some second coming. Like the movie was truly middle of the road to me. The effects were okay and it felt like it was trying to build a world, but that world just makes no goddamn sense. Smith and Edgerton hold the film kind of together I guess, and Rapace felt wasted. I guess I don't see the novelty of lethal weapon + lord of the rings with a healthy dose of really botched social commentary. Still, this was no where as bad as some people are portraying.
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Dec 25, 2017 12:51
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BrianWilly posted:It's also a wee bit unsettling to me that so many of the corrupt cops, especially those on the higher echelon like the sergeant and the internal review guys, were played by people of color. Will Smith is black
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Dec 25, 2017 14:21
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Will Smith is the freewheeling white detective and the orc is the new black cop from a lovely hood. This is hard for people who are paid to watch movies to understand
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Dec 25, 2017 14:23
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No, Will Smith is a black guy. This is part of why he's able to understand where Jakoby is coming from in a lot of cases, not least when Jakoby says if he hadn't helped a certain young ork escape said young ork would likely have been blasted by the cops for nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Dec 25, 2017 14:47
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Haven't seen it yet but planning on it. The trailers remind me a bit of District 9 and Ugly Americans.
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Dec 25, 2017 16:13
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ruddiger posted:Haven't seen it yet but planning on it. The trailers remind me a bit of District 9 and Ugly Americans. This movie is much less racist and much more sympathetic towards the struggle of poor minorities than District 9, at least.
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Dec 26, 2017 00:56
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BrianWilly posted:It's also a wee bit unsettling to me that so many of the corrupt cops, especially those on the higher echelon like the sergeant and the internal review guys, were played by people of color. Sadly, peoples who suffer discrimination/oppression don't magically become immune to the selfish allure of racism. Just look at the hosed-up state of Israel.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:00
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Overall I thought the movie was good, I’d definitely watch a sequel. The world seems super interesting and I’ll really like to see it fleshed out more / expand on the backstory of everything.
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Dec 26, 2017 01:44
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Black Bones posted:Sadly, peoples who suffer discrimination/oppression don't magically become immune to the selfish allure of racism. Just look at the hosed-up state of Israel. So an implication of "But really, if you think about it, aren't they just as bad as their oppressors?" has always been very off-putting to me because the reality is that they're not, and haven't been. "Sure, but they could be!" Okay, yes, they could be if we lived in an alternate reality where things are completely different. Great. Thanks for the heads-up, film.
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Dec 26, 2017 02:10
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Maybe in the Bright world there wasn't any historical oppression of non-white people because Orcs were a thing? or maybe they just wanted to be edgy so they cast Black people as all the biggest fantasy racists.
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Dec 26, 2017 02:22
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Family is watching this, but other family came over so we stopped about half way through. But im currently at odds with this movie. If you put a white man in will Smith's role, the entire movie makes more sense as just a black guy becoming a cop. That it's written by a privileged white dude shows with the language and scenarios he uses to ground race issues. Just fantasy Crash with cops which means even less subtly. Edgerton saves the movie from being just a downer.
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Dec 26, 2017 03:36
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I can't believe you guys are complaining that the cast is diverse. gently caress you. PS there are actual Latino people, black people, and women in the real LAPD! No centaurs though.
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Dec 26, 2017 04:24
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Pick posted:I can't believe you guys are complaining that the cast is diverse. gently caress you. PS there are actual Latino people, black people, and women in the real LAPD! No centaurs though. Could you please quote the posts saying this? It seems most are reacting to the movie. The same movie that has a black man say fairy lives won't matter today.
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Dec 26, 2017 04:59
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reach42 posted:Bright wasn't nearly as coherent, consistent, or as well shot as this vastly superior short film. totally forgot he did one of these with andy whitfield from spartacus
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Dec 26, 2017 05:20
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BrianWilly posted:I'm always uncomfortable with stories where the implication is that the oppressed would be just as lovely as the oppressors if they could get away with it. The Modern, Extant State of Israel
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Dec 26, 2017 05:43
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bushisms.txt posted:Family is watching this, but other family came over so we stopped about half way through. But im currently at odds with this movie. If you put a white man in will Smith's role, the entire movie makes more sense as just a black guy becoming a cop. That it's written by a privileged white dude shows with the language and scenarios he uses to ground race issues. Just fantasy Crash with cops which means even less subtly. Edgerton saves the movie from being just a downer. Will Smith is the white cop.
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Dec 26, 2017 05:44
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"Racism was not a problem on the Discworld, because—what with trolls and dwarfs and so on—speciesism was more interesting. Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green." Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad
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Dec 26, 2017 05:59
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BrianWilly posted:I'm always uncomfortable with stories where the implication is that the oppressed would be just as lovely as the oppressors if they could get away with it. Not because I can't see the ring of truth in that mindset, but y'know what? We, as a culture, are not going to suddenly find ourselves in that situation, where racial dynamics are suddenly switched upside down...at least, not in the U.S. (and other parts of the western world) where the themes of this film would actually apply. Historically and currently, non-white peoples find themselves at the receiving end of injustice from white people. That is the historical and current reality. In fact, the specific institutional injustice that is being addressed in this film, that of police brutality, is a problem that is specifically a problem for non-white people, and even then primarily skewed towards black Americans. Police brutality affects the poor, foremost.
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Dec 26, 2017 06:10
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bushisms.txt posted:Could you please quote the posts saying this? It seems most are reacting to the movie. The same movie that has a black man say fairy lives won't matter today. yeah, you are being reactionary.
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Dec 26, 2017 06:11
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Okay this movie owned.
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Dec 26, 2017 08:49
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strong bird posted:The Modern, Extant State of Israel Also, Liberia where americo-liberians disenfranchised the indigenous liberians.
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Dec 26, 2017 11:01
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Ok finished it. Meh.strong bird posted:Will Smith is the white cop. I know. The movie is about how the social construct of whiteness now encompasses black folks so they can also punch down on orcs. The movie is essentially the good ones are alright to trust, and whiteness will prevail beyond the other. Doesn't help orcs are explicitly replacing black people. I'm the rare Landis fan, loved American ultra and chronicle, and even bright shows his affinity for making great revisionist takes on the dreaded CPR scene that usually ends a movie. Bright was just too ignorant of actual racial issues to say anything about them. It's adult zootopia. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 16:17
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bushisms.txt posted:Ok finished it. Meh. I think you maybe watched a different film than the rest of us? These sentences seem basically unrelated to the film Bright.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:22
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a foolish pianist posted:I think you maybe watched a different film than the rest of us? These sentences seem basically unrelated to the film Bright. How? Did you listen to any of the dialogue? Will Smith is constantly making sure the orc's not choosing his people over their oppressors who hundreds of years ago essentially started orc Jim Crow. At the end of the movie, the nebulous jew stand ins will allow them to continue only if they keep up the current status quo. As a black man, this movie does nothing but bring up what is actually going on in the US and it falls super short in saying anything that assuages those moments. I've seen folks talk about the world building, good and bad, but no one seems to actually explain what they mean. For me, the world building was apparent based on will Smith's character. He lives in an all black neighborhood, and is visible upset an orc comes through, regardless of his profession and relationship. The police department is almost all white( Margaret cho is the fully formed asian minority being accepted as white) except for the latino cop who is also trying his best to be a model minority and keep up the white status quo. Smith's boss (another good one) tells him no one wants to partner with him, yet the only thing we see him do that other cops don't do is mix race with his white wife. He's even applauded for returning, so it's not his on the job behavior that's an issue. Elftown might as well be called jew York. They try to have Smith's daughter spout cute stuff, but it's just ignorant racist poo poo she heard from her mom, which while honest, doesn't help the movie. bushisms.txt fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 16:31
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