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SatansBestBuddy posted:Add in businesses trying to advertise to very specific groups from all of those categories, catering to their specific regions and languages, and yeah, trying to put people in charge of monitoring all that is basically impossible. Where would you even start? Purging nerds. Duh.
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Dec 26, 2017 09:33
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Kim Justice posted:The other big bit where he's in full Nazi regalia was part of a skit commenting on things being taken out of context by the press, which then...well, got taken out of context by the press lol. Point is: If you're dressing up like a nazi for a skit, the point of the skit better be "Nazi's are loving pathetic scum" and not "Poor me, my comments have been taken out of context", because the latter pretty much solidifies you as an rear end in a top hat.
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Dec 26, 2017 09:44
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Now I kind of wanna know what Math Youtube is like.
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Dec 26, 2017 12:20
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Erm actually you can make the basis of dressing in a Nazi costume about whatever you wish, so long as you're prepared to be judged on your execution and your intentions. It doesn't just have to be "I'm doing this because Nazis are bad" like some after school special. Indeed in near enough all cases the costume itself is enough to get that point across - being a Nazi is bad, and therefore this is bad.SatansBestBuddy posted:The thing that gets me is that, you know, I can understand why they'd be gunshy about hiring people to monitor their system, because it's so loving huge I don't think even the people running the company have any idea how big it is. Like, they have the numbers but the actual scope of the website is mind numbing. Oh I totally understand - it's obviously a humongous nightmare. But it don't seem like the algorithms are doing them a world of good either tbh...there's no easy solution to the whole thing. FoldableHuman posted:. In all this talk about the WSJ and them being primarily a financial paper and all that stuff...all seems to kinda ignore one little thing. That being that the WSJ is a Rupert Murdoch paper, and all Murdoch papers are as utterly worthless as each other. They just attack different facets of whatever they're targeting depending on their image and readership. These aren't some brave, upstanding journalists we're talking about here. The media narrative against PewDiePie took several forms over the course of a couple of months until WSJ was the one that stuck, and Murdoch papers and news sources were directly at the forefront of it. Hell, it's just one more chapter in a whole book of "Murdoch vs Google" that is, at its heart, a battle for ad revenue. When the Adpocalypse happened, who was in there to try and pick up as much of the slack as possible? News Corp. What a coincidence. That's the actual narrative here, more than anything. I mean I'm sure it sounds a bit Alex Jones but it's far from the first example of such a thing, and as much as you wish to choke people for pulling the wagons in it's kinda understandable. ...And PewDiePie WAS doing a skit, is the thing. Like, both times he was doing a skit - the first time he was doing it in response to various pieces on him (Sky News, Independent etc.), the second time was making a point about the ridiculous things you could do with something like Fiverrr and juxtaposing such a hateful statement with a call to sub to Mr. DramaAlert guy. Of course we can talk about his execution a hell of a lot and how it was not exactly funny and really it's a pretty tired thing to do in the end - just because it's on Fiverrr doesn't make it less of a cliche, and we can certainly talk about how impressively, collossaly stupid it is for a man with 50 million subs and a Disney contract to go around wearing Nazi uniforms for a skit and paying people to write "Death to All Jews" on a card...who knew, turns out that Disney are somewhat sensitive when it comes to that kind of thing - can't imagine why. We can probably agree on all of that stuff, I'm sure - my contention is to whether these edgy attempts at humour make Pewds an actual at heart racist, and I think that's pretty weak.
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Dec 26, 2017 12:23
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Kim Justice posted:My contention is to whether these edgy attempts at humour make Pewds an actual at heart racist, and I think that's pretty weak. ~Ironic~ racism is still just racism. Also the guy's already let slip that he drops the n-word
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Dec 26, 2017 12:42
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He dropped the N-bomb way too casually in a stream to not be a racist. Like he dropped it the way an Australian or Pom would call someone a oval office.
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Dec 26, 2017 13:06
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BigRed0427 posted:Now I kind of wanna know what Math Youtube is like. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX8bihEe3nA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuigptwlVHo Math youtube is delightful  EDIT: actually watching the video it's a bad explanation of a cool concept, here's the simple version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txajrEOTkuY SatansBestBuddy fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 13:25
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wrestling with regret is great, any other wrestling critics?Testekill posted:He dropped the N-bomb way too casually in a stream to not be a racist.  *brofists at problematic angle* he had a change of heart about his new pals sometime around mid august, couldn't possibly imagine why
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Dec 26, 2017 13:29
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Visidan posted:wrestling with regret is great, any other wrestling critics? I've been getting into OSW lately, they put up a review of TNA Bound For Glory 17 about a week ago. They also uploaded a video for the TNA 2007 Christmas episode with the infamous Silent Night, Bloody Night match starring Abyss, Shark Boy, Black Reign (Goldust on a shitload of drugs and was really fat at the time) and Rellik (that's killer spelt backwards) which is among the most insulting matches that I've ever seen that wasn't a lovely comedy match. There's also the old staple of Brian & Vinny. edit: OSW TNA Christmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljckpPdVpLs Bryan & Vinny covering the Silent Night, Bloody night match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opM6eyjIYH0 Testekill fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 13:36
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Wrestlelamia is very good. But yeah...OSW are some of the best Internet video makers full stop, never mind just wrestling. If you like that and don't mind podcasts you could also check out the Attitude Era and New Generation podcasts, which are pretty similar. And of course let us not forget WhatCulture's almighty Adam Bla-looool no can't finish that with a straight face 
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Dec 26, 2017 13:39
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ACES CURE PLANES posted:sounds like he already talked about both Best Gundams already though Am I the only one who was really into 08th MS Team?
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Dec 26, 2017 14:22
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John Murdoch posted:Am I the only one who was really into 08th MS Team? A lot of folks love it. It's a nice compact story that takes place in the UC but doesn't require you to know much about the setting. I also love it for showing that the grunt Zeon suits aren't cannon fodder in most battles. Even the Zaku is pretty powerful vs mainline federation troops.
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Dec 26, 2017 14:26
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Kim Justice posted:...And PewDiePie WAS doing a skit, is the thing. Like, both times he was doing a skit - the first time he was doing it in response to various pieces on him (Sky News, Independent etc.), the second time was making a point about the ridiculous things you could do with something like Fiverrr and juxtaposing such a hateful statement with a call to sub to Mr. DramaAlert guy. Of course we can talk about his execution a hell of a lot and how it was not exactly funny and really it's a pretty tired thing to do in the end - just because it's on Fiverrr doesn't make it less of a cliche, and we can certainly talk about how impressively, collossaly stupid it is for a man with 50 million subs and a Disney contract to go around wearing Nazi uniforms for a skit and paying people to write "Death to All Jews" on a card...who knew, turns out that Disney are somewhat sensitive when it comes to that kind of thing - can't imagine why. We can probably agree on all of that stuff, I'm sure - my contention is to whether these edgy attempts at humour make Pewds an actual at heart racist, and I think that's pretty weak. Is Felix paying you to come up with this kind of nuclear hot take? "Death to all Jews" isn't a funny joke, no matter how much you try to defend him with "It was just a We know he's a "an actual at heart racist" thanks to his casual n-word dropping, really not sure why you're going to bat for this idiot, it's kind of like defending George Zimmerman.
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Dec 26, 2017 15:38
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John Murdoch posted:Am I the only one who was really into 08th MS Team? It's fine but it falls apart towards the end considering the original director died and threw the whole thing into development hell. There's a notable downturn in writing quality as the series progressed and the final episode is just pointless and terrible. Still, collapsing in on itself is something most Gundam series do eventually.
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Dec 26, 2017 15:40
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Kim Justice posted:Erm actually you can make the basis of dressing in a Nazi costume about whatever you wish, so long as you're prepared to be judged on your execution and your intentions. Intent is irrelevant to the consequences of one's actions.
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Dec 26, 2017 15:49
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WampaLord posted:Is Felix paying you to come up with this kind of nuclear hot take? I could be misremembering, but didn’t he pay some homeless dudes to hold up that sign? That seems like an extra layer of cruelty.
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Dec 26, 2017 15:53
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Darth Walrus posted:I could be misremembering, but didn’t he pay some homeless dudes to hold up that sign? That seems like an extra layer of cruelty. The "joke" was that he used https://www.fiverr.com to hire someone to display something terribly offensive, presumably as a way of mocking Fiverr for being an exploitative company, but the end result is him telling his millions of fans that "Death to all Jews" is a cool and good thing to joke about. Then a bunch of various internet people, including slowbeef, went to bat for him in a really disgusting way. I would have thought Felix's later actions would have firmly pushed all defenders away at this point, but lo and behold.
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Dec 26, 2017 15:56
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SatansBestBuddy posted:The thing that gets me is that, you know, I can understand why they'd be gunshy about hiring people to monitor their system, because it's so loving huge I don't think even the people running the company have any idea how big it is. Like, they have the numbers but the actual scope of the website is mind numbing. I did a bit of math a while back and while this may be wrong it's based on the only statistics I can find so hopefully it's close. Each minute there are 300 hours of content uploaded onto youtube, which means that there's 432,000 hours of video uploaded, each single day. If they want moderation to be entirely human-based, and assuming people can review one minute of footage per minute (probably too high, it's probably closer to 30 seconds per minute of footage even before paperwork and meetings and such), they'd need 18,000 workers just to proactively sort through new content. And that's if those people worked around the clock, never sleeping or taking breaks. With an eight hour workday it'd be more like 54k new employees. From a quick search, Google/Alphabet has roughly 62,000 employees, which means that Google would have to almost double in size just to make sure newly uploaded videos are okay
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Dec 26, 2017 16:01
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WampaLord posted:Is Felix paying you to come up with this kind of nuclear hot take? George Zimmerman killed someone. Pewdiepie told a stupid tasteless joke and used a racial slur one time, which at worst may have hurt someone’s feelings. Those things aren’t even remotely similar.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:04
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Bakeneko posted:George Zimmerman killed someone. Pewdiepie told a stupid tasteless joke and used a racial slur one time, which at worst may have hurt someone’s feelings. Those things aren’t even remotely similar. That's why I said "kind of like" The difference is that Pewdiepie has an audience of millions of impressionable children. That's why I care about him making Nazi poo poo cool to laugh about.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:09
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I'm pretty sure slowbeef didn't defend Pewdiepie, he just mocked someone who did.
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Dec 26, 2017 16:11
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Spark That Bled posted:I'm pretty sure slowbeef didn't defend Pewdiepie, he just mocked someone who did. No, he definitely did: https://www.polygon.com/2017/2/21/14683942/pewdiepie-controversy-youtube-drama "It's so hard to do comedy right! Sometimes you just have to throw out a "Kill all the Jews" joke and see if it flies! Carlin was edgy too!" gently caress off. I did stand up comedy and knew quite a few people in the scene, no comedian needs to be told to not promote genocide. Lindsey's video about Mel Brooks deserves a plug here, since she covered it so well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cPPSyoQkE WampaLord fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 16:14
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WampaLord posted:The "joke" was that he used https://www.fiverr.com to hire someone to display something terribly offensive, presumably as a way of mocking Fiverr for being an exploitative company, but the end result is him telling his millions of fans that "Death to all Jews" is a cool and good thing to joke about. also it can't be said enough that those guys got kicked off Fiverr so his 'joke' that was AAAAAAAAAAAAACTUALLY about how bad the company is just ended with people who may need it deprived while he faced nothing
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Dec 26, 2017 16:40
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Kim Justice posted:And of course let us not forget WhatCulture's almighty Adam Bla-looool no can't finish that with a straight face Don't those WhatCulture guys have their own promotion where they spend most of their time trying to put themselves over?
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Dec 26, 2017 17:13
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Wheat Loaf posted:Don't those WhatCulture guys have their own promotion where they spend most of their time trying to put themselves over? it's a combination of that and the most basic example of a money mark
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Dec 26, 2017 17:14
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Alaois posted:it's a combination of that and the most basic example of a money mark pretty much. Like rock on living your bliss and all but it's really fitting that their indie venture seems to just be them paying to go over and hang out with wrestlers.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:22
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Slowbeef's piece reads less as a defense to me and more just as using the situation to illustrate general issues with YouTube's process and networks. Like, "Idiot thinks ironic racism is a funny joke, probably doesn't literally believe Jews should be killed, and apparently desperately needs a manager to tell him he's being an idiot" doesn't strike me as a defense. It's an explanation, one that makes perfect sense in a culture where South Park and Family Guy are popular shows, there's been a long and growing subculture dedicated to teenage edgelord foolishness, and rich white boys are shielded from having to consider the consequences of their actions. If you throw your average dumb nerd from this background into a room and ask them to make funny content for an audience they never really interact with, steadily and at a near-constant rate, you're going to end up with just a bunch of ill-considered id reflecting whatever humor that person's used to. That's not a defense of the individual, it's a condemnation of a setting and system that allows that bullshit to rise to the top, and no amount of attacking PDP personally is going to change that system. Too much of the conversation turns into "HOW DARE THESE PEOPLE DEFEND A RACIST!" when the arguments are more nuanced and, ultimately, PDP himself doesn't personally matter. The problem is having a system that encourages unthinkingly vomiting dumb poo poo onto a screen versus one that actually promotes considering what's going up before it's shared with the masses.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:29
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I agree that beef's main point seemed to be 'he has no one in the real world to bounce jokes off so he's just pissing in the wind hoping as little splashes back as possible' but to be honest that's more a conversation about, say, the stupid 'prank' videos and all. Most people don't need a manager to tell them 'hey, death to jews isn't a cool thing to say'.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:44
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I mean I dunno, maybe I'm just overestimating the goyim in my life. Maybe it's like the ~controversy~ around 'maybe teach guys not to rape instead of put it on the victims' stuff. Maybe it's another case of 'well no this lovely thing is just gonna happen and telling the people who do it that it's bad won't help' and I guess every non-Jew does need a guy standing behind him going 'hey, no, don't say death to jews' every so often.
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Dec 26, 2017 17:47
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smash cut to the writers room for Conan. "Hey Fred what do you have?" "Well maybe we could do another travel bit? Have him go to some kinda niche hobby store and make jokes?" "Always fun, good plan, be sure it's not too mean though remember they're part of the joke not the butt of it. Marsha?" "Clueless Gamer is always fun, he could do a game of the year themed one." "Great plan, remember to pick games he can really gently caress around in. Terry?" "Uh....he could hold a sign reading 'death to jews'?" "Fifth time you've pitched that, buddy, not gonna work."
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Dec 26, 2017 17:51
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WampaLord posted:Is Felix paying you to come up with this kind of nuclear hot take? No, I mean I wish he was but alas. Still if you'd actually managed to read what I said you'd see that at no point did I say that it was a funny joke. It was not - it was crap, stupid, cliched, and a thoroughly foolish thing for him to do. I *said* that. I just think that he leans more towards being stupid than racist though, weighing up all the things. It's nothing even remotely like defending someone who shot a black kid because they were walking around their neighbourhood eating skittles - that sort of nonsense is the reason why trying to discuss Pewds becomes almost impossible. If I'm defending Pewdiepie and being paid for it, I doubt I'm doing that good of a job. I hardly think Slowbeef's article was a good defense of him either - it explained the situation and the differences that the YouTube machine/process is compared to something like, say, being a comedian. It quite clearly didn't say "Hey you gotta have a kill the jews joke once in a while", I mean please can we not go this uber-dumb hysterical route, this isn't bloody Twitter. READ. (BTW, the guys who Pewdiepie used - the Funny Guys - got their Fiverr account back after a few days. They even appeared in another Pewds video after that about the WSJ thing in his defense)
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Dec 26, 2017 17:57
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Honestly it's not so much a jew vs non-jew issue as it is one of a significant fraction of society (generally middle-class suburban and up, white, and predominantly male) having grown up in a pretty segregated environment where they're not confronted with people who aren't like them, and sheltered from the issues that affect those people. It's really, really easy to grow up with an attitude of "racism/sexism/etc are Over, because I never see them, and therefore they are just funny jokes" in those situations. I mean, PDP also thought rape was a hilarious joke, and had to be beaten over the head for a while before he got THAT into his skull, so it should be a surprise to nobody that there were other terrible ideas of what's a joke sloshing around in his affluenza skull. As someone who's been around a LOT of people in a similar situation, it's hard to overstate how completely naive/ignorant they are. They have no loving clue that they're being genuinely hurtful, because they've been sheltered and raised in culture that thinks that (rich white) children should be shielded from any upsetting thing. (As well as that the best way to combat racism is to just pretend like race doesn't exist, I'm COLORBLIND you guys, I don't even SEE race!!!) ETA: Kim Justice posted:I just think that he leans more towards being stupid than racist though, weighing up all the things. TBH, that kind of distinction doesn't exactly matter; he used his obscenely massive platform to send out a racist joke, then doubled down on it. Whether he holds racist beliefs (beyond the ironic racism junk) or not, the result is the same, which is the issue. (And again, why it's frustrating that the argument ends up being over PDP rather than the fact that he's allowed to just do whatever comes to his mind in front of millions of children.) Puppy Time fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Dec 26, 2017 |
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Dec 26, 2017 17:59
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Puppy Time posted:Honestly it's not so much a jew vs non-jew issue as it is one of a significant fraction of society (generally middle-class suburban and up, white, and predominantly male) having grown up in a pretty segregated environment where they're not confronted with people who aren't like them, and sheltered from the issues that affect those people. It's really, really easy to grow up with an attitude of "racism/sexism/etc are Over, because I never see them, and therefore they are just funny jokes" in those situations. All this, pretty much - we're very much in agreement here about the general ignorance of folks and you're saying what I want to say only better. And yeah I agree on the latter part too - it's not like anything good is coming out of it beyond perpetuating what you're talking about. I mean, I still think that the WSJ's role in the whole thing is typical of them being a Murdoch publication and I'll forever be doubtful of their aims, and I think it's quite understandable that everyone was because in the end "Is Pewdiepie Racist" became the main question as opposed to any of this, and it was arguably one of the causes of a pretty miserable time for us folks in t'trade. In the end the actual question itself is a minor point that changes little.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:13
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(Doubleposting on a different subject, not that this matters 'cause the thread will take its course)quote:Don't those WhatCulture guys have their own promotion where they spend most of their time trying to put themselves over? The actual promotion itself isn't terrible or anything, although there are better ones. It was more a rip on Adam Blampied more than anything, who was the face of WC's YouTube wrestling stuff, did lots of heel work, made a grand song and dance about leaving to do other, bigger things...and then as soon as he did his online proclivities about getting fans to show off their tits in the DM's came for him and it all went to poo poo. Thus ended the sad song of Adam Blampied. Hey-ho, never liked him anyway. #MeToo was truly a glorious time when it came to the destruction of fake male feminists on social media.
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Dec 26, 2017 18:17
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Kim Justice posted:Erm actually you can make the basis of dressing in a Nazi costume about whatever you wish, so long as you're prepared to be judged on your execution and your intentions. It doesn't just have to be "I'm doing this because Nazis are bad" like some after school special. Indeed in near enough all cases the costume itself is enough to get that point across - being a Nazi is bad, and therefore this is bad. Considering the current political climate, are you really gonna go with "the Nazi costume is enough to get the point across, because being a Nazi is bad"?
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Dec 26, 2017 18:39
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So that's why they keep throwing me out of City Hall!
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Dec 26, 2017 18:48
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How to do a skit that points out Fiver is a lovely company, in such a way that it points out its a lovely company but also demonstrates how not to be lovely: "I put an ad on Fiver which asks people to do [bad degrading thing]. And I got [huge number] of replies. I know, right?" {intercut Skype interviews with some of the respondents doing a demo reel of the Really Bad Thing-- with all their PII details redacted, lots of lols} "So funny, right? But wow, kinda uncomfortable to watch. Now, so you know, I blanked all their details out so Fiver can't identify them. Why? Well, let's turn to Burner Account I made specifically for this purpose." {video: PDP in a costume, doing Really Bad Thing} "So this one, I did post in public through Fiver. I was going to report it myself, but the community took care of that for me and--" {screenshot: account banned} "Well, so what, right? My little throwaway account got banned because of TOS violation. Though it does make me wonder why I was allowed to post the ad in the first place. But anyways, it doesn't matter to me-- but what about [Name of fiver dude]. Let's talk to him." {insert interview with Fiver guy-- talking about the desperate situation / poverty he lives in, how Fiver is his main source of income, can't get jobs anywhere else, needs to take what he can get before someone else grabs it up. Talks about horrible degrading things he's done over time just for the benefit of rich assholes in the west. Put a human face on this} "Ad how does Fiver treat you?" "Like poo poo." {goes into explanation of bad business practices of Fiver, how he's been screwed over but has no choice} "So how about, instead of dealing with Fiver, I hire you directly. Let's say, $10k a year, and you be me Super Awesome Foreign Correspondent so we can do remote bits and stuff like that" Guy: "Cool!" -- And now he helps someone at minimal cost to himself, has a whole new bit to do, and can even open up his audience pool to Fiver Guy's home country. Maybe launch a career. And in the end Fiver looks like a shitpile compared to Good Guys Doing Good Things. -- How NOT to do the above: "lol i hired poor idiot to hold sign saying death to jews so kewl lulz"
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Dec 26, 2017 18:50
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In retrospect I should have expected mentioning pewdiepie would turn out this way and I apologize for the derail. My point was that behavior is often predictive - - regardless of the intent, pewdiepie did do stupid racist poo poo more than once, and Landis certainly has done creepy poo poo more than once. But certain people get absurd benefit of the doubt until some arbitrary threshold is reached. The thing is, women and people of color notice these kinds of behaviors more easily just because they are exposed to them more often, and maybe partly as a defense mechanism. That's why it's important to actually listen to women and POC when they point that kind of thing out. When the Weinstein thing came out, I saw multiple articles explaining why victims of sexual assault wouldn't come forward immediately, but that always struck me as besides the point because some DID come forward YEARS prior, but they weren't listened to. Pirate Jenny just mentioned word of Landis being a creeper was around years ago as well, but it takes people poo poo talking him on Twitter for people to take notice. Listen to women and people of color and victims in general and this kind of thing won't come as such a shock is all I'm saying. And quite frankly, I do not give a poo poo what is in pewdiepie's heart of hearts. I do not care if Landis does not realize his behavior is lovely because his daddy shielded him. I care about the safety and basic human dignity of people around them.
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Dec 26, 2017 19:51
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Well it would be terrible if somebody ruined the vanity carriers of these two already rich sons of power on vague accusations
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Dec 26, 2017 19:54
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Think about all the weeks they spent uncomfortable and anxious between the initial accusations and the final revel of their bad behavior. Is that not punishment enough?
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Dec 26, 2017 19:56
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