Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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redneck nazgul: Apr 25, 2013

make boulder beetles gain momentum like orbs of destruction. if they hit a wall after a certain amount of distance, they break the wall. if it's stone/metal, the beetle explodes.

# ? Dec 25, 2017 19:27

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:01

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
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IronicDongz posted:

add a boulder beetle unique that shoots out orbs of destruction in multiple directions like high power orb cards do whenever it collides with something

realtalk that all sounds fine.

actually, uh, that sounds cool as hell for some sort of high-tier enemy's method of attacking. like some sort of representation of the BFG from doom

# ? Dec 25, 2017 22:06

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Johnny Joestar posted:

actually, uh, that sounds cool as hell for some sort of high-tier enemy's method of attacking. like some sort of representation of the BFG from doom

Obviously, it needs to be an enemy in Hell.

Edit I still think we need to design a Floodkiller unique water elemental.

# ? Dec 25, 2017 22:09

Dee Ehm: Apr 10, 2014

someone awful. posted:

Rods were awkward poo poo garbage and work way better as wands, plus felids can use them as wands. Why would you want to bring them back?

I always thought that the best way to fix Rods was to make them more like weapons with additional powers than wands you had to wield. Make them all have some sort of effect when you melee'd with them like Staves or the Rod of Striking. They were technically a mace type weapon and Ashenzari could let you curse them to boost evo. But I guess as they existed at time of removal they were kinda awkward and sorta OP.

Side Note: I have always wanted Velociraptor packs in Crawl roaming Lair or Depths.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 01:47

CARL MARK FORCE IV: Sep 2, 2007; I took a walk. And threw up in an English garden.

Playing a Pakellas gnome back when rods existed was probably the most fun I've ever had playing Crawl.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 06:43

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Ferrinus posted:

An active, necromancy-themed regeneration could be like the old version of Powered By Death where corpses in your vicinity rapidly rot to give you health while they last and you remain near them. It could also be fused into Vampiric Draining, where VD puts a DoT on an enemy and you regain health for each tick.

Either of those spells runs into the fundamental problem with redesigning regeneration that made me give up on the problem. That's not to say those aren't good ideas, but they wouldn't work as pure replacements for the currently existing spell itself.

That's because regen works both in and out of combat. What's more, the spell is probably more important as a way to heal quickly out of combat than in combat. That isn't just my opinion, I've seen it mentioned a number of times by more experienced players. But both of those proposals are for an in-combat healing spell. It would be trivial to make the existing regen an out of combat spell (it cancels when you take damage), then create another spell that is designed to work as a heal spell in combat. But if one were to do so, it would have to be stronger than the current regen to bother casting in most circumstances. However, I don't think there is space in Crawl for a strong healing spell that isn't something like Borgnor's: a spell that's high enough level to be build defining and that comes with permanent character damage. I generally strongly oppose cheap healing in any RPG, but I think cheap and easy access to strong healing is anathema in Crawl.

Of course, if the goons think there should be a strong healing spell in gooncrawl, then that's another matter. But I disagree. So, I think the best solution for regeneration is the hellcrawl permabuff solution. That's one of the only charms for which I think this is the proper solution, by the way. There are other solutions I can think of, but they would involve removing the regen spell, so are probably not appropriate for gooncrawl, especially at this stage.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 14:23

ExiledTinkerer: Nov 4, 2009

Since some of this new endeavor seems to be centered on bringing things back on top of not shying from changes in pursuit of flavor, unless I've missed something, is any mind being paid to the Circus Animals Fork alongside Hellcrawl and whatnot? There's surely some applicable good interwoven within all the crazy even if it hasn't seen an update in awhile now after the initial flurry:

https://github.com/jeremygurr/dcssca

Quite looking forward to where this Gooncrawl fork goes!

# ? Dec 26, 2017 14:29

HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

I don't see why there's a need for an outside-combat healing spell. From my experience, the main difference between Regeneration and regular resting is how far back you go to rest, so hardly impactful.

The main place to use Regeneration outside of combat is in Hells due to the Hell Effect clock, and that's it's own set of issues.

And speed running, I guess, but why design the game around that?

# ? Dec 26, 2017 15:18

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Of course, if the goons think there should be a strong healing spell in gooncrawl, then that's another matter.

I mean, we are already putting wand of heal wounds, recharging scrolls, and Pakellas (once the abilities are reworked to fit with wand stacking) back in :v:

If anyone wants to follow the fork commit log as I work, it's located here. Otherwise, progress so far:

The purple is back
You can ZOMBIEHANDS while still charming and embracing corpses if that's your thing I guess
Ogres like big sticks again
You can now be permanently tormented again if you are lucky (the crown might need something else attached to it to make it more interesting, but that's for later)
Dragons love it when you call them over with a big dragony roar (the spell doesn't say it is being boosted because I haven't fixed that part yet, but it is)
Local pharaoh removes hatches to reinstall stairs, in response to union demands for easier inter-floor movement. "I kept the treasure room doors in the hallway, though. Those were actually pretty convenient." Disabled Mummies of the Crypt and Tomb (DMCT) has filed a civil suit with the pharaoh for removing handicapped access.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 16:01

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

just make rods work like the lamp and phial

# ? Dec 26, 2017 16:08

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

That Pharoah still doesn't consider his handicapable undead, he should have installed elevators instead of stairs! :v:

I kid, of course. Look at all those commits in so little time. You're a madman, Floodkiller. A wonderful, amazing madman.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 16:13

Darox: Nov 10, 2012

HisMajestyBOB posted:

I don't see why there's a need for an outside-combat healing spell. From my experience, the main difference between Regeneration and regular resting is how far back you go to rest, so hardly impactful.

The main place to use Regeneration outside of combat is in Hells due to the Hell Effect clock, and that's it's own set of issues.

And speed running, I guess, but why design the game around that?

Because resting sucks. Having really low natural regeneration relative to your maxhp blows. You have to rest more frequently and for longer. It makes everything slower and it sucks. High regeneration means you can keep moving and go from fight to fight without issue.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 16:32

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

In mainline Crawl news, ghost speeds were normalized at 10 and some brands forbidden (like chaos), as a beginning of some kind of ghost revamp.

Distortion was briefly one of the forbidden ones but was re-enabled because 'it doesn't have any particular reason to be disabled compared to other threatening early brands'. I think that means it's just Chaos and Holy Wrath that are forbidden now, actually.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 16:34

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

What about a spell that works like Deep Dwarves healing? Decent heal, maybe percentage based, but permanently reduces Max HP by 1?

# ? Dec 26, 2017 17:03

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

Uh, you mean Bojnigor's Revivification?

# ? Dec 26, 2017 17:11

Archenteron: Nov 3, 2006

Trollhide/Trollblood: Nec/Trm 4 or 5, gives 2-4 ac boost from tough skin, +Regen, and cranks up your metabolism

# ? Dec 26, 2017 17:37

HisMajestyBOB: Oct 21, 2010; College Slice

Darox posted:

Because resting sucks. Having really low natural regeneration relative to your maxhp blows. You have to rest more frequently and for longer. It makes everything slower and it sucks. High regeneration means you can keep moving and go from fight to fight without issue.

But auto resting takes the same amount of real-life time regardless of how much is healed. Press 5, get full health.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:05

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Heithinn Grasida posted:

Either of those spells runs into the fundamental problem with redesigning regeneration that made me give up on the problem. That's not to say those aren't good ideas, but they wouldn't work as pure replacements for the currently existing spell itself.

That's because regen works both in and out of combat. What's more, the spell is probably more important as a way to heal quickly out of combat than in combat. That isn't just my opinion, I've seen it mentioned a number of times by more experienced players. But both of those proposals are for an in-combat healing spell. It would be trivial to make the existing regen an out of combat spell (it cancels when you take damage), then create another spell that is designed to work as a heal spell in combat. But if one were to do so, it would have to be stronger than the current regen to bother casting in most circumstances. However, I don't think there is space in Crawl for a strong healing spell that isn't something like Borgnor's: a spell that's high enough level to be build defining and that comes with permanent character damage. I generally strongly oppose cheap healing in any RPG, but I think cheap and easy access to strong healing is anathema in Crawl.

Of course, if the goons think there should be a strong healing spell in gooncrawl, then that's another matter. But I disagree. So, I think the best solution for regeneration is the hellcrawl permabuff solution. That's one of the only charms for which I think this is the proper solution, by the way. There are other solutions I can think of, but they would involve removing the regen spell, so are probably not appropriate for gooncrawl, especially at this stage.

Right, the idea is that you�d change Regen so that it�a a combat spell. Then, if it makes the game too dang slow, you can just boost everybody�s out of combat healing across the board. Maybe make it so specifically standing in place with no enemies in sight gives you a regen multiplier.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:15

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Have the Regen spell root you in place until you're at full health with some flavour of "leaching nutrients from the dungeon soil," similar to Lignification but without the transformation. Maybe add an ability to end it earlier at the cost of some health because you've ripped those parasitic roots out and that poo poo hurts. That way you can use it both in and out of combat and there's an actual choice to make as to when to engage it.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:20

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I actually don't mind resting that much personally, it just takes a little init tweaking to be less intrusive.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:21

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Sage Grimm posted:

Have the Regen spell root you in place until you're at full health with some flavour of "leaching nutrients from the dungeon soil," similar to Lignification but without the transformation. Maybe add an ability to end it earlier at the cost of some health because you've ripped those parasitic roots out and that poo poo hurts. That way you can use it both in and out of combat and there's an actual choice to make as to when to engage it.

This is a good idea, especially if using Lig at the same time provides a minor bonus, since it removes the "take damage and bail" option.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 19:22

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

Just make treeform a real spell and give trees regen

# ? Dec 26, 2017 20:16

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

cheetah7071 posted:

Just make treeform a real spell and give trees regen

And call the spell Treegeneration.

# ? Dec 26, 2017 20:24

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Make it a line of sorts? Roots, Barkskin, Lignification, or somesuch. Though again the concerns about spellbook bloat come up.

A race with a Lig ability would be neat. Dryads, maybe?

# ? Dec 26, 2017 21:18

Ugly John: Jul 18, 2009; [img]https://forums.somethingawful.com/attachment.php?postid=514899866[/img]

Random idea I had for a new DS-level mutation (I thought it was interesting):

Magical Conduit - Gives a chance to cast a random damaging or debuffing (if valid) spell at an enemy in range (could be as if cast from the PC or smite-targetted). Power level ceiling (random from 1-ceiling) and available spells dependent on rank of the mutation. Spell cast not always guaranteed to be effective against the target (doesn't take into account resistances or immunities).

# ? Dec 26, 2017 22:02

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

Make sure to delete troll leather armor too

# ? Dec 27, 2017 01:32

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Nah, that's the Stone Soup way: Finally getting rid of racial armour/weapons! :v:

# ? Dec 27, 2017 03:37

gowb: Apr 14, 2005

I actually really like that wands stack now, also please remove wands of confusion so I can stop getting that stupid genesis song stuck in my head. Thanks.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 10:33

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Gooncrawl update:

You can drop long lasting fart clouds all over monsters again (it's in book of Clouds and book of Envenomations, the latter of which I brought back as well to make room for more poison spells)
High elves are back through the power of Tolkien
Surfs up for Norris (who was actually a giant pain in the rear end to bring back properly, surprisingly)

# ? Dec 27, 2017 15:22

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Really? Why?

# ? Dec 27, 2017 15:47

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

PMush Perfect posted:

Really? Why?

There was a bunch of back-end changes since he was removed that I kept missing, so it was a lot of compiling crashes. I eventually took a shortcut and gave him Donald's weapon set because I got sick of it and wanted to move on. He's still got the buckler though.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 16:40

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

TBH that new Necro/Earth spell sounds a lot like the Toxic Glue spell I kept suggesting as pure poison.

# ? Dec 27, 2017 16:53

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

How does Ozo's refrigeration compare to Freezing Cloud for AoE ice spells? I know Freezing cloud is amazing but I've never used Ozo's

# ? Dec 28, 2017 01:22

gowb: Apr 14, 2005

cheetah7071 posted:

How does Ozo's refrigeration compare to Freezing Cloud for AoE ice spells? I know Freezing cloud is amazing but I've never used Ozo's

Completely different, ozo attempts to put everything in sight back to sleep iirc

# ? Dec 28, 2017 05:30

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

cheetah7071 posted:

How does Ozo's refrigeration compare to Freezing Cloud for AoE ice spells? I know Freezing cloud is amazing but I've never used Ozo's

Ozo's is usually only better if you are trying to hit the entire screen, in which case you are either fighting popcorn or should probably be running away. Ozo's also keeps taking MP and your turn to cast, compared to Freezing Cloud which you lay down once for damage over multiple turns plus being able to use other spells/attacks/movement while doing so.

On a different note, Phase Shift is being a bitch to re-implement compared to Poisonous Cloud. Both reversion attempts, something being changed in the combat code keeps CTDing the game while trying to move after casting Phase Shift. I'll probably try implementing it as a new spell (instead of re-enabling the old one) and see if it crashes then. If it does, I'll probably just put that feature on the back burner for a later time.

# ? Dec 28, 2017 05:31

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Please include an actual "Crash to Desktop" spell.

# ? Dec 28, 2017 07:06

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

gowb posted:

Completely different, ozo attempts to put everything in sight back to sleep iirc

You're thinking of Metabolic Englaciation, probably? Though I think that just slows, with resistance based on rC and HD.

Ozocubo's Refrigeration deals damage to everything in LOS (including you) with AC-ignoring undodgeable (but resistable) cold damage, and temporarily disables potion use. It used to break them.

Edit: They don't actually have to be visible though; it works on invisible targets even if you can't see them. They just have to be within your LOS range.

Prism fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Dec 28, 2017

# ? Dec 28, 2017 07:10

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Metabolic englaciation used to put the whole screen to sleep. Now it slows everything instead.

Ozo's refrigeration can be good if you find exactly the right stuff to support it. A refrigerator mage with high int and three enhancers is a hilarious steamroller, since the spell power gets high enough that the benefit of the mechanics starts to outweigh the disadvantage of the poor damage. It's pretty mediocre if you can't get it to a really high power, though, and it will never be worth it against things with tons of HP.

# ? Dec 28, 2017 11:22

fadam: Apr 23, 2008

I've come back to this after taking a long break and my init file is blank. What was all the good stuff people recommended putting in there, again? Something about manual training?

# ? Dec 28, 2017 16:27

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# ? May 14, 2024 00:01

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

PMush Perfect posted:

my stupid poo poo.

code:

#Even the default stop at 50% is too late for a new player to really consider escape options.
autofight_stop = 60
hp_warning = 60
mp_warning = 25
default_manual_training = true

#Makes resting and exploring a little more interactive, IMO
#Also makes you rest before you start an autoexplore
explore_delay = 5
rest_delay = 5
explore_auto_rest = true

#Pay attention when this poo poo happens
force_more_message += calcifying dust hits you
force_more_message += wielding a * of distortion
force_more_message += Xom

#Will force-more every time the listed monsters do anything.
#Monsters are listed for being nontrivial no matter XL.
force_more_message += shining eye * into view
force_more_message += entropy weaver * into view
force_more_message += flayed ghost * into view
force_more_message += sphinx * into view
force_more_message += neqoxec * into view
force_more_message += 's ghost * Dr

#Auto open skills on new char
{
local need_skills_opened = true
function ready()
  if you.turns() == 0 and need_skills_opened then
    need_skills_opened = false
    crawl.sendkeys("m")
  end
end
}

tile_web_mouse_control = false

# ? Dec 28, 2017 16:37

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