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can some one please point out to me where the psuedo-marxism is in the star wars?
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Dec 29, 2017 09:32
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Basebf555 posted:Those guys are actually in a helicopter flying over a real landscape though. What Lucas was doing with the prequels could not have been accomplished that way. It's just dumb to compare Kubrick to Lucas, they're so different it's as if they worked in different mediums. Then he should have shot those scenes on Earth in exotic locals and uses color grading and minimal CGI to dress things up so it doesn't look like Earth, like how the other films did it. The problem is that the prequels only had good CGI in certain parts and they're few and far between. Some interior areas looked ok, but anything that was outside, naturally lit or any sort of organic mass (aliens or plants) it looks like complete dogshit. Anything moving outside of robots looks awful. AOTC is almost all greenscreened CGI horseshit and it looks like a video game. For ROTS the CGI had gotten noticeably better but it still wasn't good enough to make entire scenes CGI spectacles.
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Dec 29, 2017 10:28
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Sunny Side Up posted:That’s the story in TLJ. All of the old is disposed and even the most dispossessed have hope. That's the ostensible story of TLJ, according to some of the characters and also apparently the writer/director, but what actually happens is that all of the old is reinstituted, and it is shown that only a literal superhero has the power to inspire hope. (If you’re just a regular person calling for aid against the fascists, you can gently caress right off.) Zoran fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 10:36
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Late to the party but I just saw TLJ and I don't understand how a person could enjoy this film apart from the visual spectacle. Terrible plot, terrible writing/dialogue, terrible acting, terrible humor, terrible tone, nothing about this movie made sense. There are so many things wrong from a general story telling standpoint down to the granular Star Wars in-universe poo poo. -somehow the First Order dominates the entire galaxy again despite losing in TFA, and the New Republic is reduced to 3 ships -Poe disobeys direct orders, gets everybody killed, gets a minor demotion. Poe then loving organizes a mutiny that ultimately reduces the remaining Rebel personnel to however many people the Millennium Falcon can hold and gets rewarded with a "He's got spunk, I like him." Guy gets 90% of his peers killed and is rewarded for it. -Leia's Mary Poppins space walk moment, plus nobody comments on this -Contrived "chase" sequence with the galaxy's most idiotic First Order fleet vs Rebels... if tiny fighters are so effective against capital ships, why couldn't the First Order deploy their fighters? Why didn't they hyperspace some capital ships somewhere in front of the rebel fleet? -bizarre sexual innuendo and Seinfeld jokes peppered between slapstick kiddie humor -everything about General Holdo -everything about the Las Vegas planet arc (Capitalism is Bad, support PETA, lol slave children get hosed, also this is a complete huge waste of time that will ultimately result in most of the rebels getting killed) -Brienne of Tarth Stormtrooper going Bond Villain in every incompetent sense -Luke Skywalkers curmudgeon "I came here to die, go away" rear end despite setting up an elaborate map so people can find him in the previous film -character assassination of Luke Skywalker. Dude once went on a suicide mission for the chance to redeem his genocidal & child slaughtering father, but a glimpse of darkness in Ben is enough to consider murdering his nephew and best friend's son in his sleep. -the asian girl ramming Finn's skiff during his heroic self-sacrificing moment, because "saving the ones you love is how the Rebellion is going to win," despite General Holdo self-sacrificing herself to save the Rebel ships 20 minutes earlier -that asian girl period -Finn somehow dragging asian girl all the way back to the Rebel base in front of a score of AT-ATs -Rey becoming a Jedi lightsaber and force master after a couple days with Luke -Rey's parents being completely inconsequential -Snoke, apparently the most powerful near omnipotent Sith Lord, isn't able to detect a lightsaber rattling on his metal throne right next to him nor betrayal from his pupil whose lineage has a penchant for betrayal. -Ghost Yoda summoning lightning to make a point to Luke about the non-importance of the Jedi texts, except Rey already packed the Jedi texts -Deus Ex Machina everywhere, but especially in Luke's super convenient final stand where he somehow knows he only needs to delay the First Order and not actually fight them to save the Rebels. Which is why he goes with the Force Hologram trick. Terrible all around.
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Dec 29, 2017 12:38
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s.i.r.e. posted:Then he should have shot those scenes on Earth in exotic locals and uses color grading and minimal CGI to dress things up so it doesn't look like Earth, like how the other films did it. The problem is that the prequels only had good CGI in certain parts and they're few and far between. Some interior areas looked ok, but anything that was outside, naturally lit or any sort of organic mass (aliens or plants) it looks like complete dogshit. Anything moving outside of robots looks awful. There were a ton of practical sets and scaled model work in AoTC. https://makezine.com/2015/10/07/the-surprising-practical-effects-of-the-star-wars-prequels/ What you are doing is perpetuating an internet myth.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:35
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theDOWmustflow posted:Late to the party but I just saw TLJ and I don't understand how a person could enjoy this film apart from the visual spectacle. -The First Order lost their superweapon; not their entire military. The New Republic was destroyed in TFA. They don't even have 3 ships. -This one I'll give you; the movie gets a bit muddled on if they want to be all "follow orders" or "buck the chain if you need to" -Leia was not Mary Poppins. She used the Force; a well established power in the universe. -The Resistance ships were too far away from the First Order fleet for the fleet to provide cover for the fighters. This is explicitly stated in dialog. -Every single Star Wars film has jokes and humor. -What was wrong with Holdo? -The Canto Bight sequence ending in failure is integral to the themes of the film. -Phasma is underused, yes. -He didn't set up a map. Lor San Tekka was an explorer and devotee of the Force. He had a map to the first Jedi Temple -Did you miss the third iteration of What Happened That Night? Luke's intention to kill lasted a feeling moment and he immediately regretted it -Agreed; as presented, Finn had the right idea; especially juxtaposed with Holdo. -She has a name. It's Rose. -Kylo had the walkers focusing on Luke. Again, explicit dialog -Rey is naturally a force prodigy. Again, explicit dialog -Rey's parents being nobodies is an excellent subversion of the Skywalker dynasty in particular and the Jedi Order in general. See also: stable cleaning kid. -Snoke sensed exactly what Kylo was doing. Turning his saber to strike down his true enemy. He was just too arrogant and self assured (like Palpatine) to realize that he himself was that enemy. -Exactly. That's the point. Luke was hanging on to the texts not to use them, not to learn from them. He needed to believe they were destroyed. -Yeah; he knows he can't actually strike down the whole First Order with his laser sword (again, explicit dialog), so he instead makes a grand spectacle to buy time for Leia and the others.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:37
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When people complain about the Star Wars prequels "looking CGI" they really don't give a poo poo whether or not it was actually done on a practical set or in miniature, they're talking about the awfully composited, plasticene look everything has.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:37
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Which is hilarious because there is some really bad compositing in TLJ the pilots in the salt skiffs and Finn and Rose on the space llama being two sore thumb (yet not the only) examples.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:40
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jivjov posted:
This will never not be anything but hilarious to me, even if you assume the total WW2 logic of this film. It is literally nonsense.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:42
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ruddiger posted:Which is hilarious because there is some really bad compositing in TLJ the pilots in the salt skiffs and Finn and Rose on the space llama being two sore thumb (yet not the only) examples. I thought the compositing during the final Luke/Ren fight was distractingly bad. Like, my brain went right to 'this is two guys in front of a green screen and something about is really off' which usually doesn't happen to me. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 13:43
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Milky Moor posted:This will never not be anything but hilarious to me, even if you assume the total WW2 logic of this film. It is literally nonsense. Space does not have real world physics in Star Wars. Star Wars ships do not have to follow real world military tactics. the film raises and answers the question of "why don't they use fighters" explicitly
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Dec 29, 2017 13:44
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To be completely honest all big budget movie effects look super fake to me and I can't recall the last time I sat and watched an action sequence in a film where I was fully immersed in the experience and never once thought "how did they do this with computers." I guess Drive..?
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Dec 29, 2017 13:53
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jivjov posted:Space does not have real world physics in Star Wars. Star Wars ships do not have to follow real world military tactics. I wish I could open your skull to find out how your brain functions. It must be fascinating.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:54
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jivjov posted:Space does not have real world physics in Star Wars. Star Wars ships do not have to follow real world military tactics. It’s a bad answer that’s incongruent with all other Star Wars. The TIEs in ANH were absurdly far from the Death Star. In ESB the TIEs and then Bombers that go into the asteroid field are incredibly far from the Star Destroyers. In RotJ the TIEs are far from the DS and the Star Destroyers. Hell, in the Battles or Yavin, Naboo and the Starkiller Base there are fighters without any capital ships at all! It’s lazy nonsense that needed a rewrite or touch up. It’s startlingly lame that that was the best technobabble they could come up with
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Dec 29, 2017 13:56
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Milky Moor posted:I wish I could open your skull to find out how your brain functions. It must be fascinating. Listening to dialog is easy. E: as is understanding the difference between fiction and reality.
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Dec 29, 2017 13:58
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Actually what he did mention alongside the fighter complaint just made me realize how stupid the chase was. They only had 1 destroyer on the role of tracker and I certainly doubt the additional destroyers was the entire first order fleet. They “chased” the resistance for hours and at no point they went “they’re flying in a straight line lets just get a spare destroyer to jump ahead of them” or just call for more destroyers since that was all that’s left of the resistance.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:24
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Actually what he did mention alongside the fighter complaint just made me realize how stupid the chase was. They only had 1 destroyer on the role of tracker and I certainly doubt the additional destroyers was the entire first order fleet. They “chased” the resistance for hours and at no point they went “they’re flying in a straight line lets just get a spare destroyer to jump ahead of them” or just call for more destroyers since that was all that’s left of the resistance. But...but then the evil bad guy leader couldn't stand there and say "fire the lasers", when they caught up with him!
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Dec 29, 2017 14:27
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jivjov posted:Listening to dialog is easy. But Jivjov, it doesn't make sense within a. the internal logic of every other Star Wars film and b. the real-world military terminology and history that Star Wars apes (and apes much more heavily in TLJ than any film previous). I know you have some kind of brain worms that don't allow you to ever think anything with the Star Wars branding can be wrong but this is a very strange hill to die on. See, a better argument would be that it isn't Hux being concerned about lack of fighter cover, but the fact that Kylo might get killed on his watch. Which only raises further questions, of course.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:33
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One joke I'm thinking back on that bugs me. When Luke meets Leia he says "you changed your hair" and pantomimes side buns. It's a joke, audience laughs. But she changed her hair from that before even Empire strikes back. Then Return of the Jedi where Luke has been with her for years, then presumably for thirty years after that never went back to the buns. That joke only works to a casual audience "hey remember that wacky hairstyle from the original Star Wars? Wink wink we saw Star Wars too!" It makes absolutely zero story or character sense from his point of view. You could just read it as a "women be changing their hair all the time amirite guys?" joke, which is almost equally lame, except for the pantomiming. Most charitably you could say it's a joke about awkward conversations with someone you haven't seen in a while and have nothing really to say to, but he does have something instant to say to her.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:45
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Milky Moor posted:But Jivjov, it doesn't make sense within a. the internal logic of every other Star Wars film and b. the real-world military terminology and history that Star Wars apes (and apes much more heavily in TLJ than any film previous). That spoiler is probably exactly why suddenly Hux is concerned with proper military doctrine. And this is the first Star Wars film in which the First Order's doctrine wrt starfighters and covering fire from cruisers has been relevant. It never came up in TFA and the FO didn't exist in the PT or OT.
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Dec 29, 2017 14:46
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Al Borland Corp. posted:One joke I'm thinking back on that bugs me. Yeah but Luke (and the audience) was reminded when R2 played the ANH "help me Obi-Wan Kenobi" message again
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Dec 29, 2017 15:22
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jivjov posted:It never came up in TFA and the FO didn't exist in the PT or OT. It did in TFA, unless sorties that take place on a planet's surface don't need it? Al Borland Corp. posted:One joke I'm thinking back on that bugs me. I think the charitable one is probably what the original intent was. I can imagine wanting a sort of light little small talk bit and then, like a lightbulb "omg yes, her hair was a certain way in one movie and that's iconic" Waffles Inc. fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 15:34
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Waffles Inc. posted:It did in TFA, unless sorties that take place on a planet's surface don't need it? I believe Johnson said that was one of Fisher's contributions to the script. There's a scene of her and Holdo that was added when he, Fisher and Laura Dern sat and wrote it out.
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Dec 29, 2017 15:39
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exquisite tea posted:To be completely honest all big budget movie effects look super fake to me and I can't recall the last time I sat and watched an action sequence in a film where I was fully immersed in the experience and never once thought "how did they do this with computers." I guess Drive..? Second and third Planet of the Apes movies are near flawless imo
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Dec 29, 2017 15:54
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s.i.r.e. posted:Then he should have shot those scenes on Earth in exotic locals and uses color grading and minimal CGI to dress things up so it doesn't look like Earth, like how the other films did it. The problem is that the prequels only had good CGI in certain parts and they're few and far between. Some interior areas looked ok, but anything that was outside, naturally lit or any sort of organic mass (aliens or plants) it looks like complete dogshit. Anything moving outside of robots looks awful. Where would you suggest he shoot in order to get a Coruscant-like cityscape with buildings so packed together that you can't even tell where the ground is? A literal planet-sized city that we're gonna be speeding around in during one of the biggest action set-pieces in the movie. Again, these scenes and special effects were very well received at the time, people were very impressed by them. And they moved the techniques forward in a way that couldn't possibly have happened if someone like Lucas wasn't willing to actually try them in a big project like Star Wars. So what you're suggesting is that Lucas make a completely different movie than the one he obviously wanted to make, and to support your argument you're using a 2017 opinion that really isn't relevant to what was happening when the prequels were being made.
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Dec 29, 2017 16:07
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Some critics couldn't help but comment on the move to digital projection/filming at the time, and would always backhand compliment the film with bon mots like "the image is sharp, like the action, but the projection was dim, like the plot" Which coloured internet opinion at the time
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Dec 29, 2017 16:15
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Ive analysed and tabulated every single post in this thread and the result is conclusive: the prequels are good
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Dec 29, 2017 16:28
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Basebf555 posted:Again, these scenes and special effects were very well received at the time, people were very impressed by them. And they moved the techniques forward in a way that couldn't possibly have happened if someone like Lucas wasn't willing to actually try them in a big project like Star Wars. So what you're suggesting is that Lucas make a completely different movie than the one he obviously wanted to make, and to support your argument you're using a 2017 opinion that really isn't relevant to what was happening when the prequels were being made. Yeah I've been combing through reviews of AotC and we get a lot of reviews like this David Denby of the New Yorker posted:"Star Wars: Episode II—Attack of the Clones" is much better, though the plot is incomprehensible to anyone over the age of fourteen. The Republic? The Federation? The Separatists? The clone army? The droid army? The Siths? The Kith? The Kin? Everyone's in it, a blur of names and forces. I also looked up Revenge of the Sith and AO Scott liked it better than ANH AO Scott for the New York Times posted:This is by far the best film in the more recent trilogy, and also the best of the four episodes Mr. Lucas has directed. That's right (and my inner 11-year-old shudders as I type this): it's better than "Star Wars." Penpal posted:Some critics couldn't help but comment on the move to digital projection/filming at the time, and would always backhand compliment the film with bon mots like "the image is sharp, like the action, but the projection was dim, like the plot" Yeah this takes up a sizeable chunk of Ebert's review. He talks at length about how he's sure it'll look great on DVD and in the like, 19 theaters that showed it digitally but that it looks dim and bad on film because of the transfer
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Dec 29, 2017 16:31
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Penpal posted:Second and third Planet of the Apes movies are near flawless imo Truth. 
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Dec 29, 2017 17:17
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fridge corn posted:can some one please point out to me where the psuedo-marxism is in the star wars? Life creates it, makes it grow. Psuedo-marxism surrounds us and binds us. Leftist beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Psuedo-marxism around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship." - Zizek RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 18:07
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The enemy in TFA is not the dark side it's the return of the light tbh
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Dec 29, 2017 18:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Since we're on the topic, the CG hologram scene in Return Of The Jedi is actually a good example of where the prequel aesthetic comes from. this is a cool post thanks for the references
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Dec 29, 2017 18:35
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I love hearing about all the trashy 50s movies lucas based the prequel aesthetics on cause I dont know about any of that poo poo
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Dec 29, 2017 18:39
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At least the prequels made narrative sense. There was a through line. Characters with clear motivations and goals. What does Rey want? Or Kylo Ren? How did the New Order start? Is the Republic still standing? If so why are the people fighting the New Order called the Resistance? I guess the Republic doesn't have a standing army so they rely on freedom fighters. People were praising TLJ for throwing everything from TFA out the window but that just bad storytelling. This trilogy is going to be a wildly uneven narrative mess.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:39
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Al Borland Corp. posted:One joke I'm thinking back on that bugs me. In TLJ? I'm pretty sure the exchange goes: Luke: Leia ... Leia: I know what you're going to say Luke: *quizzical look* Leia: I changed my hair again And no one mimes the buns at all. I've only seen TLJ twice, so maybe I'm misremembering.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:40
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Yaws posted:At least the prequels made narrative sense. There was a through line. Characters with clear motivations and goals. Rey literally tells Luke what she wants. Ren tells Rey what he wants, even when he is playing both sides. Jesus loving Christ. None of the rest of this is even factual.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:45
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Yaws posted:What does Rey want? Or Kylo Ren? Rey's motivation is explicitly stated. Luke asks her why she's there and she says she's felt something that's lay dormant in her all her life awaken and she needs someone to guide her. She's also obviously driven to defeat the First Order, which blew up 7 planets in the last movie so that doesn't need much more explanation. Kylo wants to be as powerful as Darth Vader. It's stated in his monologue to the Darth Vader helmet in TFA and it's also super obvious in both movies. He also wants to wipe out all the current power structures in the galaxy so he can build his own new one.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:46
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Yaws posted:At least the prequels made narrative sense. There was a through line. Characters with clear motivations and goals. 1. Rey wants to find a place that she feels like she belongs in. A purpose. Meaning. What have you. 2. I don’t know. Probably a bunch of rich empire fan boy apologists got together and poo poo got real or something. 3. A new version of it, yes. 4. Because they exist outside of it and aren’t backed by the Republic. Leia is the one leading it. 5.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:46
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PostNouveau posted:Rey's motivation is explicitly stated. Luke asks her why she's there and she says she's felt something that's lay dormant in her all her life awaken and she needs someone to guide her. This is all really really lame
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Dec 29, 2017 18:50
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Yaws posted:This is all really really lame I mean think what you want, but it was all very clearly stated.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:52
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