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The Sabbat eventually controlled a lot of territory, so later editions arrived at the conclusion that the Sabbat basically do enforce the Masquerade; they just don’t call it that. They also like to make the Camarilla foot the bill for cleaning up all the Masquerade breaches they do cause.
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Dec 29, 2017 22:37
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I wish I knew more about the game, but what I do know is Montreal or Toronto has vampires with babies or baby vampires on sticks?Rand Brittain posted:The Sabbat eventually controlled a lot of territory, so later editions arrived at the conclusion that the Sabbat basically do enforce the Masquerade; they just don’t call it that. Okay that makes sense. One of the big draws for oWoD is an established setting, even if it's being updated in new editions. There are people in the fandom who haven't ever played the game but have bought the books and know all the characters the way some might Harry Potter or Game of Thrones. Whereas even among people who play Requiem many might not know who Solomon Birch or Prince Maxwell are. And that's more than enough to base a (video) game on, you can sell it to people if it has Tesla in it even if he's a steampunk wizard. People like that sort of callback to the 'niche' things they like. nofather fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 22:38
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It's kind of a shame they did the whole 'WEREWOLVES ARE IN THE FOREST SO VAMPIRES AVOID IT' thing because vampires in isolated logging towns or whatever using it to fulfill their old feudal lord fantasies of actually directly controlling their subjects seems like something that would pop up with the older breed. Sabbat as vampires who go out west and build an isolated compound and plot the downfall of the currently-existing order could've been fun.
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Dec 29, 2017 22:42
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Like nofather says, the oWOD metaplot does offer a better material to make videogames out of, even though it's the weaker setting to run RPGs in most of the time, but all I've got from Swedish Dracula is that he really misses the early 90's.
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Dec 29, 2017 23:00
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The Sabbat totally has a Masquerade, they just phrase it as a non-disclosure policy. Mortals aren't good enough to know the truth about what's out there. This policy is somewhat looser than the Masquerade, though- the Sabbat wants mortals living in fear of the dark, even if they don't know what exactly is in the dark, as opposed to the Camarilla policy of "The world is perfectly rational, there is nothing in that shadow over there, stop looking." So the Sabbat odd perfectly happy with a shredded corpse being found as long as it's not obviously the work of specifically a vampire, while the Camarilla really wants that cleaned up so nobody gets any ideas.
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Dec 29, 2017 23:50
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LGD posted:they had to do that for a lot of the other lines as well, even if they've got more obvious ancedents in pop-culture monsters
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Dec 29, 2017 23:59
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Mors Rattus posted:I would say less gonzo on average but occasionally peaking harder. Like, the God-Machine as an actual, physical machine which overlaps with the entire planet and manipulates everything for unknown and possibly no ends at all, complete with summoning robotic angels from nowhere and caching timelines in large boxes under Seattle?
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Dec 30, 2017 00:08
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Night10194 posted:It's kind of a shame they did the whole 'WEREWOLVES ARE IN THE FOREST SO VAMPIRES AVOID IT' thing because vampires in isolated logging towns or whatever using it to fulfill their old feudal lord fantasies of actually directly controlling their subjects seems like something that would pop up with the older breed.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:09
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As someone who did not play oVamp growing up, it looks stupid as hell and does absolutely nothing that I wouldn't get better out of nVamp. Like I played Bloodlines but at no point during it was I like "yes this is a good and well thought out setting," and that was before I knew of the truly stupid and ~*~edge~*~ parts of the setting. I'm going to go ahead and state that likewise I've yet to meet someone who didn't grow up playing oVamp (or was surrounded in a toxic social environment regarding that particularly dumb edition war) and who thinks it's better then nVamp.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:15
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Kurieg posted:Which book is Swastika McNaziBoobs from? Montreal by Night, of course. ProfessorCirno posted:As someone who did not play oVamp growing up, it looks stupid as hell and does absolutely nothing that I wouldn't get better out of nVamp. Like I played Bloodlines but at no point during it was I like "yes this is a good and well thought out setting," and that was before I knew of the truly stupid and ~*~edge~*~ parts of the setting. I'm going to go ahead and state that likewise I've yet to meet someone who didn't grow up playing oVamp (or was surrounded in a toxic social environment regarding that particularly dumb edition war) and who thinks it's better then nVamp. Me. I started with Masquerade, but the nWoD came out when I was 16 and it sucked me in instantly and I followed avidly until around Geist/Mummy. nWoD 1E is the one I'm nostalgic for. Edit: Jesus, I'm turning 30 next month. The nWoD is 14 years old.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:33
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Kurieg posted:Which book is Swastika McNaziBoobs from? MonsieurChoc posted:Montreal by Night, of course. Who gets a title like that? WHY does someone get a title like that? I'm not entirely sure I actually want to know, because oWoD is a little worrying sometimes. Is Montreal notoriously bad or something? (I'm kind of curious why Montreal as much as anything else.)
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Dec 30, 2017 00:45
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Prism posted:Who gets a title like that? WHY does someone get a title like that? Montreal by Night is the book that led to me saying "what part of 'blood-stained dildo' did you think did not involve a blood-stained dildo", which pretty much sums it up. There's a WTF, D&D? about it if you really want details.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:48
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Prism posted:Who gets a title like that? WHY does someone get a title like that? https://www.somethingawful.com/dungeons-and-dragons/vampire-artwork-montreal/12/ NSFW, obviously.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:50
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Rand Brittain posted:Montreal by Night is the book that led to me saying "what part of 'blood-stained dildo' did you think did not involve a blood-stained dildo", which pretty much sums it up. Sick curiosity is leaning that way. Do you have a link? Edit: One appears to have arrived as I was asking. Thanks! Double edit: I think I am retracting the thanks after reading it Prism fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 00:51
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Totentanz is, uh. She’s special. She is a former Nazi scientist turned trans Nazi vampire. She is like maximum edge EVEN FOR THE SABBAT.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:02
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I really do want to recommend Beckett's Jyhad Diary for V20 to anybody who wants to understand the appeal of the oWoD's complicated metaplot. It's basically a giant tour of a bunch of locations from the old games, updating the craziness to the modern era and trying to fix a lot of the worst parts. (One thing I talked about with Neall was the big overhaul Sascha Vykos had to get before they could be a not-terrible character—one part of which was that they are now 'they' and not 'it'.) Honestly, somebody who's more familiar with the oWoD should really pick it up for an F&F—it's perfect for that kind of approach and I'd be interested to see what TG thought of it.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:08
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"Swastika boobs" might be based off of Bruno, from Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns. 
nofather fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 01:22
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As someone who lives in Montreal, I found that book hilarious. 10+ years ago. Now? I don't know what I'd think.
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Dec 30, 2017 01:33
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The weird part about was it was written by Montreal locals, IIRC. Most of whom went off and later did Tribe 8.
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Dec 30, 2017 02:42
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unseenlibrarian posted:Most of whom went off and later did Tribe 8. Huh.
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Dec 30, 2017 03:23
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I remember when I was excited about Paradox buying White Wolf.
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Dec 30, 2017 06:04
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Loomer posted:I remember when I was excited about Paradox buying White Wolf. So do I. I remember when I defended Beast because it was so incredibly out of character for McFarland. 2017 has killed us all.
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Dec 30, 2017 06:14
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Just wrapped up the initial clean of Wraith, about to start on the duplicate merge. There are 3898 entries, which I think will come out to about 2800-3200 or so with duplicates removed.
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Dec 30, 2017 08:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:Me. I started with Masquerade, but the nWoD came out when I was 16 and it sucked me in instantly and I followed avidly until around Geist/Mummy. nWoD 1E is the one I'm nostalgic for. I remember bitching about how nWoD was throwing the baby out with the bathwater in removing oWoD's lore, and how nWoof wasn't as good as oWoof, and scoffing at how Promethean: the Created meant they'd clearly run out of ideas. Teenage me was such an idiot. Never expected I'd be hoping that the old setting would go the gently caress away.
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Dec 30, 2017 08:40
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Ironslave posted:I remember bitching about how nWoD was throwing the baby out with the bathwater in removing oWoD's lore, and how nWoof wasn't as good as oWoof, and scoffing at how Promethean: the Created meant they'd clearly run out of ideas. The only game I was like that for was oMage. I'm sure there are still threads of me bitching about new Mage on rpg.net archives.
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Dec 30, 2017 09:43
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Duplicate prune done. Turns out I was way off - 3776 wraith entries not including organizations, ghost ships, haunts and necropoli. In that mix there are 116 'population' entries, some of which are unhelpful - e.g. that many wraiths were created when Ys sank - and others of which are quite specific. For our first comprehensive figure, we'll count the 3660 as being unique from the pop figures. Where a figure is given ala 'hundreds', we'll go with the lowest option - 200, 2000, etc - and then one at the high end. Later I'll do one that looks at the 'many wraiths' ones - e.g. the civil war - and figure out death toll to wraith ratios and the resulting figures. Low End, with Populations: 5,237,208 is the bare minimum figure for how many wraiths exist or have existed, including Orpheus. High End, with Populations: 29,408,284 for the same. The Underworld, though it has a potentially unlimited growth pool, is really a very sparse place. A fairly large chunk of those figures are things like oboli, the wraiths transformed into the Sea of Souls, etc. I was a little slack cataloguing those unfortunately but I'm not redoing the entire project to hunt down a few extra oboli - some other nutter can try and handle that. EDIT: Of the ones we know of - excluding those in Population entries and those that could be reasonably extrapolated by time+place or Legion membership, so only the explicitly stated - we have a nice spread of what percentage of wraiths died of what. 
Loomer fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 14:55
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tag yourself I'm mystery/unclear
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Dec 30, 2017 15:48
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I'm Supernatural (Eaten by Chupacabra). Yes, I assure you that's really in the data.
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Dec 30, 2017 16:02
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For the Sabbat my take was that all their ideology was just some bullshit for the neonates that none of the elders took seriously. It goes well with the 90s cynicism of Bush/Gore are the same the sides aren't really different vibe.
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Dec 30, 2017 18:08
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Rand Brittain posted:I really do want to recommend Beckett's Jyhad Diary for V20 to anybody who wants to understand the appeal of the oWoD's complicated metaplot. It's basically a giant tour of a bunch of locations from the old games, updating the craziness to the modern era and trying to fix a lot of the worst parts. (One thing I talked about with Neall was the big overhaul Sascha Vykos had to get before they could be a not-terrible character—one part of which was that they are now 'they' and not 'it'.) Beckett's Jyhad Diary is massive and seems to cover like every single story beat they've ever had, and I feel like I need to read it and the entirety of the oWoD Vampire line to refresh myself on half the stuff in it. And I always thought I had a pointlessly good memory on ridiculous PnP plotlines.
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Dec 30, 2017 19:18
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Mulva posted:Beckett's Jyhad Diary is massive and seems to cover like every single story beat they've ever had, and I feel like I need to read it and the entirety of the oWoD Vampire line to refresh myself on half the stuff in it. And I always thought I had a pointlessly good memory on ridiculous PnP plotlines. Yeah, Neall said it was a huge amount of work to collate everything, including stuff from like every Clan novel, and when I asked if they would do one for every line his eye started twitching and I went away in a hurry. It would be neat to see expanded versions of some of the stuff there, though, like the Drowned Lineages (native South American vampires) and the re-visioned Laibon.
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Dec 30, 2017 19:43
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When is Wraith20 coming out?
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Dec 31, 2017 01:21
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Bedlamdan posted:When is Wraith20 coming out? nuWW is apparently considering whether they want to make changes to the finished book or not.
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Dec 31, 2017 01:59
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Bedlamdan posted:When is Wraith20 coming out? For full immersion, not until all the backers have died.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:04
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They're at the point where licensor decides whether what's been written is acceptable (or something like that). Then it can go back and forth (change this. okay I changed it what about now? that's good but change this too) or just immediately to the next stage. Barring another Beckett's Jyhad Diary thing (where they seemed to really want to get hands on) it seems like it would be available to backers (in pdf form) soon, like maybe a month? Definitely within 2018, again barring oddities.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:13
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Rand Brittain posted:nuWW is apparently considering whether they want to make changes to the finished book or not. Hopefully they won't. I guess the Orpheus index is the problem? That sounds like most of it should be fine.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:15
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nofather posted:They're at the point where licensor decides whether what's been written is acceptable (or something like that). Then it can go back and forth (change this. okay I changed it what about now? that's good but change this too) or just immediately to the next stage. Technically, if I follow this right, they gave the okay to move past this stage, and then changed their minds and took it back to this stage, which they're probably entitled to do but it's kind of rude still.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:28
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I Am Just a Box posted:Technically, if I follow this right, they gave the okay to move past this stage, and then changed their minds and took it back to this stage, which they're probably entitled to do but it's kind of rude still. It sounds like they're just taking a while to look it over, I don't think they've gotten to this stage before. I have no deeper knowledge that isn't available via Monday Meeting posts or Kickstarter e-mails, though.
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Dec 31, 2017 04:19
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Rand Brittain posted:nuWW is apparently considering whether they want to make changes to the finished book or not. I heard of some of the changes they made to some other OPP products? SOUNDS WORRYING
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Dec 31, 2017 04:30
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Bedlamdan posted:I heard of some of the changes they made to some other OPP products? I've heard different stuff about how many changes they wanted made to other stuff from different authors, so I dunno.
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Dec 31, 2017 05:17
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