|
Waffles Inc. posted:Even after seeing it a second time it's unclear to me when he turned. His saying, "we got caught, I cut a deal" and the fact that he's not kneeling with Finn and Rose implies that at some point they took him aside from them He turned between the time we see them together and the time we see Finn and Rose without him. If he had turned earlier, they would have been apprehended earlier, ergo he turned after they were captured.
|
#
?
Dec 29, 2017 23:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:23 |
|
|
i dont have a problem w/ them giving director to some nobody considering irvin kershner directed empire
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:00
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:Additionally, it's a way for him with to free himself from culpability and give some rationalisation of all that happened. After all, as it stands right now he is kind of a massive gently caress-up. First he signs up with the First Order and even goes so far as to murder his own father to show his loyalty. But then he goes and murders Snoke, not so much because of any particular ambition or ideology, but more as a spontaneous act driven by emotion because he can't even be an amoral monster properly. His life is a shambles, the galaxy a mess, and it's all his fault. BardoTheConsumer posted:Yes. That's I think the most important thing to realize about Kylo. He is not rational. He's less rational than any star wars villain, even Anakin "killing younglings" Skywalker. He is ruled by emotion in an understandable yet mildly terrifying way. He foists his own failures onto others and finds justifications for it, whether they're real or not. He is a very angry person. That's what makes him so interesting as the apparent big bad of episode IX (although it wouldn't surprise me if something unexpected happened). My take was that Ren was generally sincere when he talked about leaving the past behind - it feels like this is why he turned, that Snoke convinced him that he had a path away from the old Jedi/Sith and Empire/Rebel crap. When Snoke admitted to manipulating Ren (I may be wrong, but I don't think Ren was aware of Snoke's intervention here) to get at Rey, Ren realises that Snoke was just as caught up in the old ways as anyone, so Ren killed him. Ren and Rey's space-skype conversations seemed to help him find some genuine equilibrium with his emotions - both Ren's and Rey's arcs seem to be about freeing themselves from their personal histories - Ren didn't kill Han for loyalty, Han in TFA was a temptation back to his previous life and the previous problems with the galaxy. Of course, they just threw it all away after the throne room fight, by making Ren a generic whiny evil guy - I have no idea why Hux, or ANYONE didn't frag Ren at any point during the rest of the film. Ren as a nihilistic antagonist who doesn't care about Jedi or Sith, Good or Evil and Light or Dark would be much more interesting and unnerving than what we have - and it would be something new for SW, which has mostly dealt with fairly black and white themes.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
I saw this hot garbage for the first time last night. I never got onto whatever wavelength Disney / Rian wanted me on and I'm still processing the multitude of questionable moments (there are so many I can't remember them all and I'm honestly surprised at how TlJ fails at every critiqueable film level apart from production value.) I guess one clusterfuck I'm trying to comprehend is the whole Finn + Rose sequence on the salt planet all the way up to the kiss. What was the point or message of that? Was it supposed to be genuinely and unironically romantic? Everything about that sequence was hosed up. Finn is about to make a heroic self sacrifice to save the beyond decimated Rebel forces, but gets intercepted by Rose because "This is how we're going to save the resistance, by saving the ones we love" or some weak bullshit. Then she kisses him and literal sparks fly, with the deaths of their comrades being fried alive by the death ray consecrating their love or some poo poo. Just... what? Did people actually find this scene thoughtful and romantic? Admiral Holdor, for as poo poo and meaningless as her character was, just sacrificed herself for the greater good just moments ago. But I guess I'm supposed to take Rose's selfish decision as heartwarming and romantic. And then to nitpick further.. these rickety deathtrap skiffs were falling apart in flight but of course it would survive direct ramming, of course. And then they also crashed at the feet of the AT-ATs but no one bothers to fire on them from the crash site, or all the way back to the rebel base (easily miles of dragging for Finn). Just loving godawful.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:26
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:Even after seeing it a second time it's unclear to me when he turned. His saying, "we got caught, I cut a deal" and the fact that he's not kneeling with Finn and Rose implies that at some point they took him aside from them Prior to the capture the FO are not monitoring for small ships. Clear. Ergo the transports "cloak" and don't show up on the FO's scans. Easily inferred. Benicio overhears from Poe that they are loading transports. Clear. Benecio tells Hux that yo they are launching transports. Easily inferred. Upon receiving this information, Hux runs a "de-cloaking scan" so that the small ships show up on their space radar or whatever. Clear.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:30
|
|
|
Wandle Cax posted:Prior to the capture the FO are not monitoring for small ships. Clear. Ergo the transports "cloak" and don't show up on the FO's scans. Easily inferred. Benicio overhears from Poe that they are loading transports. Clear. Benecio tells Hux that yo they are launching transports. Easily inferred. Upon receiving this information, Hux runs a "de-cloaking scan" so that the small ships show up on their space radar or whatever. Clear. We hear a transport pilot say something about engaging cloaking So is it that the transports are cloaked or that the empire isn’t monitoring for small ships? If they’re not monitoring for small ships why cloak?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:36
|
|
|
I'm assuming the "cloaking" means they are not showing up on radar. It can be seen through easily with a de-cloaking scan apparently. But the FO were not expecting small ships to show up so never bothered to run such a scan before being made aware of the transports.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
Are you still hung up on cloaking? Give it a break, please, for your own sanity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
Are there really sci-fi movies that exist where you can't poke at the seams until several hundred gallons of plot holes and technological absurdities fall out?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 00:58
|
|
|
an skeleton posted:Are there really sci-fi movies that exist where you can't poke at the seams until several hundred gallons of plot holes and technological absurdities fall out? Yeah. Lots of movies kinda fall apart if you start to question why X did Y. It makes for tiresome discussions. Example: this thread
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
Elissimpark posted:Of course, they just threw it all away after the throne room fight, by making Ren a generic whiny evil guy - I have no idea why Hux, or ANYONE didn't frag Ren at any point during the rest of the film. the first thing that happens after he takes over is Hux gets mad at him but then he force chokes him. also the dude probably is aware that he can do things like stop blaster bolts with his mind bc he's done that a lot in the previous film an skeleton posted:Are there really sci-fi movies that exist where you can't poke at the seams until several hundred gallons of plot holes and technological absurdities fall out? LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Dec 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
Pg. 420 Snoke's in bad Star Wars movies every day.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:29
|
|
|
On the point of Chinese box office returns: I think China generally likes watching movies that have at least any chinese people (I guess you could count Orion Lee?)
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:31
|
|
|
I think it was nice and the First Order is focussing on loving up the door, they have never confirmed a kill in this movie so I don't understand why people are surprised they're not doing it now. What is one dude gonna do?
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:32
|
|
|
Turtlicious posted:I think it was nice and the First Order is focussing on loving up the door, they have never confirmed a kill in this movie so I don't understand why people are surprised they're not doing it now. What is one dude gonna do? Neither they nor the Empire ever confirmed a kill in any movie.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:45
|
|
|
BardoTheConsumer posted:Neither they nor the Empire ever confirmed a kill in any movie. Incorrect. Darth Vader stepped on Obi-Wan's robes. lol
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:47
|
|
|
Turtlicious posted:I think it was nice and the First Order is focussing on loving up the door, they have never confirmed a kill in this movie so I don't understand why people are surprised they're not doing it now. What is one dude gonna do? also don't you think the point about saving people you love is kind of muddied by a lot of people she loves being about to die due to her stopping fin from stopping the laser
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:49
|
|
|
what if ren had been walking around pantsless instead of shirtless 
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:53
|
|
|
Fin wasn't going to stop the laser and she only loved her sister.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:53
|
|
|
BardoTheConsumer posted:Neither they nor the Empire ever confirmed a kill in any movie. Yeah I meant series.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:54
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:but it's not like they're hiding in their downed ships, he pulled her literally all the way back to the base in front of them None of those people matter to Rose, because she's less a woman with agency, and more of a blunt instrument to teach a lesson to the audience.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:54
|
|
|
cargohills posted:Are you still hung up on cloaking? Give it a break, please, for your own sanity. Man it’s not even about the cloaking, or even technical realism or anything like that—it’s unclear. And not unclear in the way that I don’t understand what’s going on or what’s meant to be going on. My problem is that it doesn’t...hmmm I dunno there’s just moments where I think, “wait huh?” In a way that doesn’t have to do with immersion All that said though, I like more of TLJ than I don’t
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:55
|
|
|
I didn't find this to be a good movie on first watch. Force awakens and rogue one were waaaaaay better. This didn't even feel like a Star Wars Film. It had things from Star Wars in it, but it wasn't Star Wars.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 01:56
|
|
|
Laserface posted:I didn't find this to be a good movie on first watch. Force awakens and rogue one were waaaaaay better. Good.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:00
|
|
|
IronicDongz posted:because he's powerful and would murder them Yeah, but that seems to involve concentration - he's going to have his back turned or sleep or something at some point. And he doesn't seem particularly respected the way Snoke or Vader were. Palpatine is blind-sided by Vader in ROTJ, all the Jedi are blind-sided by clone grunts in which prequel that happens in. Snoke is blind-sided in the same frigging film. Once they realised Luke was playing for time, they could have just blasted Ren with the AT-AT's. Wouldn't have had to re-aim or anything. Thinking about it, that could've been a pretty good ending for Ren.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:10
|
|
|
Kevin Palpatine posted:what if ren had been walking around pantsless instead of shirtless Send bobs.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:11
|
|
|
But what is Star Wars? It is a feeling. It is a vision. A thought that exists within the mind...it is an expression...
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:12
|
|
|
Gatts posted:But what is Star Wars? It is a feeling. It is a vision. A thought that exists within the mind...it is an expression... whoa
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:14
|
|
|
Waffles Inc. posted:Man it’s not even about the cloaking, or even technical realism or anything like that—it’s unclear. And not unclear in the way that I don’t understand what’s going on or what’s meant to be going on. My problem is that it doesn’t...hmmm I dunno there’s just moments where I think, “wait huh?” In a way that doesn’t have to do with immersion Yes - again, you don't have to perform these kinds of mental gymnastics with e.g. the Death Star run. Words don't have to take on alternative meanings and characters don't have to make off-screen leaps of faith to make the plot go. I also like TLJ, but that's because I like things that are interesting even if they're not entirely polished.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:22
|
|
|
Kevin Palpatine posted:what if ren had been walking around pantsless instead of shirtless Sharing a cell with Weinstein
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:23
|
|
|
Cloaking in star wars doesn't mean turn invisible it means hide from radar. All ships can cloak and are cloaked in Star Wars and if the First Order is looking for small ships they have to run declining this is not confusing unless you don't know what star wars cloaking is.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:25
|
|
|
They're cloaking the signals not the ships themselves.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:26
|
|
|
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cloaking_device ???
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
Kevin Palpatine posted:what if ren had been walking around pantsless instead of shirtless Ben Chickenwalker.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:30
|
|
|
Alternatively there's a cut scene where the master code breaker broke the resistances codes to reveal the ships which is why he has a huge stack of cash and a uniform.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:31
|
|
|
EU is not canon E: which is weird because we had opposite opinions on EU stuff about star craft 2 I think. E2: but only because Disney said so. In Star craft 2 Blizzard explicitly says that all their licensed media is cannon as long as it doesn't contradict the games. Turtlicious fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Dec 30, 2017 |
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:32
|
|
Turtlicious posted:Cloaking in star wars doesn't mean turn invisible it means hide from radar. All ships can cloak and are cloaked in Star Wars and if the First Order is looking for small ships they have to run declining this is not confusing unless you don't know what star wars cloaking is. All ships can cloak... and are cloaked? ESB: "A ship that small can't have a cloaking device!" Sounds like someone else doesn't know about Star Wars and cloaking!
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:35
|
|
|
Milky Moor posted:All ships can cloak... and are cloaked? Erego cloaking means something else when talking about tiny transports.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:37
|
|
|
There are 2 ships in the universe shown to turn invisible. Darth Mails and Harkins, no one else can do it. So cloaking must have dual meaning.
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:23 |
|
|
Turtlicious posted:There are 2 ships in the universe shown to turn invisible. Darth Mails and Harkins, no one else can do it. So cloaking must have dual meaning. what the gently caress is harkins
|
|
#
?
Dec 30, 2017 02:39
|
|