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The expected chocolate and peanut butter effect in the crossover did not manifest. I feel you can succeed in putting Layton in an Ace Attorney game, but they did it backwards and put Phoenix in a Professor Layton game.
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Dec 31, 2017 02:53
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yeah layton would be baller investigator but then he appears in the courtroom and it's like herschel get out
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Dec 31, 2017 03:01
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Bongo Bill posted:The expected chocolate and peanut butter effect in the crossover did not manifest. I feel you can succeed in putting Layton in an Ace Attorney game, but they did it backwards and put Phoenix in a Professor Layton game. You know what, this really hits the nail on the head. It was a Layton game with some (really quite fun) courtroom action, right up to and including the climax/explanation for what was really going on - and Layton games are (imo) inferior to AA games. That being said, I really wish they would introduce the multi-witness mechanic into AA games. It was awesome.
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Dec 31, 2017 04:12
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What the game needed to really come together was to have Phoenix himself uncover the completely bonkers Layton truth through cross-examinations, rather than have it all explained in dialogue. Preferably with Layton acting as prosecutor for whatever reason. I don't mind the ridiculous over the top scenarios of Layton, but a Phoenix Wright game needs to have those twists revealed as a-ha moments for the player rather than how Layton does it, which is by acting as Sherlock Holmes and running deductive circles around you.
Argue fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 05:01
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I dug the ending well enough, but yeah, the game did not mesh its concepts well and fell apart in the climax. Making an AA game with PL in it deffo would work better. As it was, I had a lot of fun, but it was less than the sum of its parts.
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Dec 31, 2017 05:17
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Podima posted:That being said, I really wish they would introduce the multi-witness mechanic into AA games. It was awesome. It was in DaiGyaku, at least.
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Dec 31, 2017 05:45
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I've started replaying the first game, and as of Case 3 I'd forgotten (spoilering because at least one person is just getting into them now) that Gumshoe had flashes of competence in the first game - Oldbag mentions that the detective initially said that "That photo is no good as evidence, Pal" - he noticed that the photo was ambiguous on it's own, and didn't get excited until other evidence started corroborating it.
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Dec 31, 2017 10:53
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From what I can tell (admittedly just from my own observations in playing the game) both companies had points they absolutely refused to renege on, and the game suffers a lot from both sides. I think the Layton stuff is more egregious, and the game especially suffers from an unwillingness to let Layton ever be wrong, which isn't even true to his own games.
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Dec 31, 2017 12:34
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My experience with this franchise has been weird over the last 11+ years (jesus christ) and very few other long running ones can match it - I bought the original in August 2006 for the NDS and adored it, which prompted me to import the Japanese versions of 2 and 3 with the English options through Play-Asia back when they came out. I posted a ton about it in the previous Ace Attorney megathreads in this now gay dead forum and frequented Court-Records that is now a ghost town. I don't remember much about my thoughts past the second game which I loved despite Franziska being an insufferable character throughout all the games. I believe I thought 3 was very good? At the very least I really liked the final case. I bought Apollo Justice the moment it came out in 2008 and despite fan reception back then being mixed I liked it as much as the original trilogy despite some tedious moments (that case with the unskippable music "video") and some writing I thought was really poor (Phoenix being disbarred barely two months after the original trilogy, the seven thousand plot holes in the final case). After the reception to Apollo Justice and the future of the series being rather nebulous my interest in the franchise waned even if I never truly forgot about it or played any of the 1-4 games ever since. I bought Ace Attorney Investigations when it came out in 2010. As I was writing this post I honestly had no idea if I played it back then and actually had to track down a post I made in another forum to confirm that I did because for the longest time I thought I hadn't done so until 2013.  It took me four months to finish the game and I was bored to tears during most of it. I used walkthroughs for these games during specific parts back in the day but the last case was so interminable that I'm sure I recall checking GameFAQs for the entire last hour or so of its duration. All this happened at a time when my tolerance for ~~Anime~~ was slowly decreasing (despite playing and loving the original Nier a year after playing AAI) and assumed my passion for the series was mostly gone.Flash forward to 2012, the first bits of info about Ace Attorney 5 came out. I was disappointed it starred Phoenix again and chalked it up to pandering rather than continuing the series with Apollo in any meaningful way and it further killed my interest in the franchise. I wouldn't go on to touch any of these games until a couple of year(s?) later when Dual Destinies was discounted on the 3DS e-shop. Even then I wouldn't start playing it until a week or so ago at the end of 2017 when I saw Spirit of Justice was on sale and decided to buy that too to have both games despite not knowing when/if I'd play them. I'm half-way through the second Case of DD and the writing is making me remember why I fell in love with the series over a decade ago despite the translation having some errors at times in terms of completely missing words in sentences. The actual gameplay is hard to have a big opinion on because the last time I played the original trilogy and AJ was nearly/over a decade ago, but it feels more dumbed down and I don't like the decision that you can only examine specific areas even if it was probably partly done to save up on localization costs. The health system during court segments is still kind of silly and I still have my habit of compulsively saving and reloading if I get something wrong. The supernatural powers in the series such as Apollo's bracelet and the magatama in addition to the pseudo-CSI tech magic stuff were always nonsense, but drat if Athena's emotion widget thing isn't dumb as hell and doesn't even seem to add much to the gameplay. Even knowing the real life reasons for the Jurist System present in AJ, I'm disappointed this doesn't seem to be mentioned whatsoever in an attempt to preserve the status quo. Surely they could have at least slightly changed the Guilty/Not Guilty screens instead of deciding to do away with that plot point? I'm still liking it a lot overall, though. I'll surely move on to SOJ after I'm done with it, or possibly play through a patched copy of AAI2 first. Thanks for readin (or scrolling past it tbh) 
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Dec 31, 2017 14:09
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I love just how many angles the heroes have covered by the end - I'd love to see them all working some international Megacase all on the same team, with Franziska and Shifu running the overall investigation as Interpol reps; Phoenix (for breaking psychelocks), Edgeworth (for his Logic) and Apollo (for Microexpressions) investigating; and Athena (for emotional counselling), Blackquill and Gavin questioning everyone involved. The killer would not stand a chance. His testimony would be torn apart from so many angles his head would spin. It would be so satisfying. Also Rayfa and Maya consulting with the victim for a fresh perspective of course.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:11
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Don't forget Rayfa's divinations.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:12
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Waffleman_ posted:Don't forget Rayfa's divinations. That's why I edited her and Maya in to help.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:30
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BioEnchanted posted:I love just how many angles the heroes have covered by the end - I'd love to see them all working some international Megacase all on the same team, with Franziska and Shifu running the overall investigation as Interpol reps; Phoenix (for breaking psychelocks), Edgeworth (for his Logic) and Apollo (for Microexpressions) investigating; and Athena (for emotional counselling), Blackquill and Gavin questioning everyone involved. The killer would not stand a chance. His testimony would be torn apart from so many angles his head would spin. It would be so satisfying. Also Rayfa and Maya consulting with the victim for a fresh perspective of course. Is there some joke about calling Inspector Lang Shifu that I'm missing? His name is Lang. Only his subordinates call him Shifu.
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Dec 31, 2017 19:37
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I just like Shifu as a nickname  It's a cute diminuitive. Also I feel bad for forgetting the best gimmick - Kay Faraday can help the investigative team too with Little Thief. Given Shi-Long Lang and Franziska would be supervising things I'm sure she'd be happy to refer to him as her Shifu.
BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 19:44
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I love Little Thief but I sometimes wonder if it's an Ultimate Bullshit Power device, or if people in Japanifornia are just weirdly specific about certain details they record, such as the amusement park blueprints noting the precise thickness of glass in the funhouse mirror or police records mentioning a snowman for whatever reason.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:50
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Being that Trauma Team is a game that exists, and that back in the day Trauma Centre and Phoenix Wright were frequently mentioned in the same breath, it feels like an almost natural progression of the series at this point.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:54
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Something I'd like to see is a character who is accused of something clearly false, and when they are acquitted, refuses to let the prosecutor off the hook for trying to hide evidence to railroad them into a guilty verdict and likely execution. Like every time he/she meets them just greeting them with "Oh, hey, it's the sloppy prosecutor who tried to kill me the other day!  " Every time they are a witness they are unrelentingly rude to the prosecution because they just think of them as a fucker, even after their character development, even going so far as to call the Judge out on his spinelessness. They always get off the hook a little too easily. The prosecution need to feel some kind of lasting consequence, and a few burned bridges may be interesting, especially if they end up needing their help later. Also while they are supposed to be nice, I never liked most of the Judges because they always buckle under pressure - they are so unprofessional. After countless crooked prosecutors bullying them they rarely bite back, the only exceptions that I remember are the first 2 games with each of the Von Karmas getting a brief moment of being called out.
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Dec 31, 2017 23:50
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BioEnchanted posted:I just like Shifu as a nickname Ah, fair. Does the name mean anything? The red panda in Kung Fu Panda was also called Shifu.
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Jan 1, 2018 00:48
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Just looked it up - it's a Chinese term that can mean Skillful Person or Master.
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Jan 1, 2018 00:54
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It's like the Chinese equivalent of sensei.
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Jan 1, 2018 00:55
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GUI posted:I'll surely move on to SOJ after I'm done with it, or possibly play through a patched copy of AAI2 first. The cool thing about both SOJ and AAI2 are that they're both good comebacks from their previous games. SOJ manages the characters better, has a much, much better plot and returns the gameplay to the way it was in previous games. AAI2 has a great plot and doesn't drag the way AAI did (especially at the end). Both games feel kind of similar though and leave you with the question of "what will they do next?"
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Jan 1, 2018 01:02
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busysignal posted:The cool thing about both SOJ and AAI2 are that they're both good comebacks from their previous games. SOJ manages the characters better, has a much, much better plot and returns the gameplay to the way it was in previous games. AAI2 has a great plot and doesn't drag the way AAI did (especially at the end). Both games feel kind of similar though and leave you with the question of "what will they do next?" AAI2 is imo still the best thing to come out of the Ace Attorney series. It's a loving travesty that it had to be fan-translated - even though the fan-translation is fantastic.
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Jan 1, 2018 01:23
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https://scarletstudy.gq/ This group that's translating DaiGyaku 1 just updated their patch to include the second case. This doesn't seem to be the Fates guys who were gonna do a literal translation because in their FAQ, they say they're gonna translate jokes, but not changing names, since it wouldn't work as well.
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Jan 1, 2018 01:31
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I liked the Mood Matrix quite a bit honestly. It is extremely silly but I think, in the last case especially, it's used in some really neat ways and they do a little more with the concept than I was expecting from the first showing of this new trial gimmick. Also, it's something the prosecutor engages with as well and I thought that was cool and different than the Magatama or Apollo's bracelet. Then again, I was generally more impressed by DD than most in this thread. I really enjoyed that game.
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Jan 1, 2018 01:32
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I liked DD a lot.
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Jan 1, 2018 01:47
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Mood Matrix takes a bit to really get going, but when it does, it's pretty great.
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Jan 1, 2018 03:26
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busysignal posted:The cool thing about both SOJ and AAI2 are that they're both good comebacks from their previous games. SOJ manages the characters better, has a much, much better plot and returns the gameplay to the way it was in previous games. AAI2 has a great plot and doesn't drag the way AAI did (especially at the end). Both games feel kind of similar though and leave you with the question of "what will they do next?" Hmm, I wonder if a "The judge: ace judge" game is possible.
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Jan 1, 2018 04:06
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Mood matrix is fine as a mechanic, I just don't like it being part of the trials. If it (and Apollo's gimmick) stayed in the investigation portions like psyche locks I'd have no issue. Both just require too much of a leap for me even in the clown shoes justice system of Ace Attorney.
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Jan 1, 2018 04:09
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One of my favourite cross-examinations in the series is Blackquill's mood matrix testimony so I would never want it to be limited to non-trial sections. It's just really good.
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Jan 1, 2018 04:17
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The "high-tech therapy session" framing of the mood matrix is a bit at odds with the conceit that it's part of cross-examination. What it works out to is a more mechanically developed version of pressing a statement resulting in amended testimony. An elegant solution would be for every cross-examination to have something similar to the mood matrix, in which statements may have several different ways of being pressed.
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Jan 1, 2018 04:48
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Really it would just be cool if all cross-examinations had the presentation of the mood matrix parts. I realize that's probably not feasible, but I can dream.
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Jan 1, 2018 05:03
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Just do one testimony thats a mood matrix with locks and finding ticks.
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Jan 1, 2018 05:13
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Dual Destinies was a middling game, but the main thing it had to do was prove they could still write a decent AA game after the travesty that was AA4. A lot of the stuff they did felt like damage control just to ensure that game's stuff didn't have to leak too much into future canon.
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Jan 1, 2018 05:30
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It's not like they had to do much beyond make Phoenix the main character again and move him away from the characterisation as an eccentric mastermind. AJ's a very self-contained game so it's not like there's much there that is threatening to undermine the integrity of the AA universe. E: The way I see it the parts where DD fails to deliver aren't like solely or even mostly due to cleaning up AJ's messes. They were just writing or difficulty problems and the like. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 05:41
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I thought AJ itself already did a fine job showing that Hobo!Phoenix was still a goof beneath the stoic facade during the flashback/present sections of the last case. I'm glad DD kept the older and wiser aspects instead of throwing away his character arc and reverting back to his original trilogy personality.
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Jan 1, 2018 06:23
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BioEnchanted posted:Also while they are supposed to be nice, I never liked most of the Judges because they always buckle under pressure - they are so unprofessional. After countless crooked prosecutors bullying them they rarely bite back, the only exceptions that I remember are the first 2 games with each of the Von Karmas getting a brief moment of being called out. Nahyuta gets a decent amount of pushback from the judge in SoJ, which I liked a lot.
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Jan 1, 2018 07:05
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I feel like Apollo got higher billing and a bigger role in Dual Destinies and especially in Spirit of Justice than he did in the game that has his title in it.
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Jan 1, 2018 07:14
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Bongo Bill posted:I feel like Apollo got higher billing and a bigger role in Dual Destinies and especially in Spirit of Justice than he did in the game that has his title in it. Agreed. There's a reason why AA4-6 is considered Apollo's trilogy.
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Jan 1, 2018 08:52
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I just want a game with Athena headlining it already. It’s a shame that she’s really only lead two (and a half) cases since her debut... and one of them was basically completely filler, even if I did kind of enjoy some of the twists it pulled off.
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Jan 1, 2018 11:25
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The first case of DD does not count as a half, she doesn't even get to the first cross-examination.
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Jan 1, 2018 11:51
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