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Lightning Knight posted:I personally support the private ownership of individual toothbrushes, because sharing toothbrushes would be nasty. God drat centrist, you lack the guts to reach true equality. If you aren't willing to use the same brush for yourself, your family, your dog, and the toilet, you're only advocating for half measures.
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Dec 31, 2017 20:53
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Is a toothbrush a sandwich or violence?
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Dec 31, 2017 20:57
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Lightning Knight posted:I personally support the private ownership of individual toothbrushes, because sharing toothbrushes would be nasty. Somebody clearly needs a refresher on the distinction between private and personal property.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:16
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ReindeerF posted:Oh poo poo, are the libertarians back? It's been a long decade, but we have plenty of ammo in peepaw's shed that still works if needed. Is that in response to the post above you? Because that's a pretty common point among leftists.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:46
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Cerebral Bore posted:Somebody clearly needs a refresher on the distinction between private and personal property. I mean, that post was a joke. I have never entirely been clear on the exact definitions of these terms in a socialist framework though, or what a socialist conception of property would look like outside of worker ownership of the means of production. I need to read more books about socialism. 
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Dec 31, 2017 21:52
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Is that in response to the post above you? Because that's a pretty common point among leftists. Sounds like Horsesho- (USER WAS PUT FIRST AGAINST THE WALL FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 31, 2017 21:53
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Potato Salad posted:Is a toothbrush a sandwich or violence? A toothbrush is a sandwhich of violence.
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Dec 31, 2017 21:58
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Also of note, there's currently civil unrest occurring in Iran. I am unclear as to the nature of the unrest, who the protestors are, and so on, but it appears to be big. Trump has butted in, and we all know elements of the administration want to go to war with Iran. I suspect this could go very badly for all involved, since Trump doesn't know anything about foreign policy. Here's hoping we don't go to war and a bunch of people in Iran don't get mowed down by security forces.
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Dec 31, 2017 22:00
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, that post was a joke. In a socialist framework Private property refers to capital property - property that generates value (in the Marxian sense which is a very limited meaning of the term) while personal property is just stuff. If I am remembering that correctly at the moment anyway, it can lead to conclusions like the land your house is on would be private property since land creates value, so no one could own land. But the home you built on it is fine to own because its not creating value.
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Dec 31, 2017 22:17
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GlyphGryph posted:In a socialist framework Private property refers to capital property - property that generates value (in the Marxian sense which is a very limited meaning of the term) while personal property is just stuff. Do only mobile homes get built in that framework or how does that work? Seems untenable to me.
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Dec 31, 2017 22:36
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, that post was a joke. Very short and simplified answer is that personal property is stuff, e.g. a toothbrush, whereas private property, is the stuff that makes other stuff, e.g. a toothbrush factory (and the related infrastructure and the like that's necessary to keep it running).
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Dec 31, 2017 22:45
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Ytlaya posted:Not sure if this would count, since banks give loans under the understanding that it isn't guaranteed to be paid back; it's a risk they opt into, and the "punishment" is generally pretty clearly defined as the person who failed to pay taking a hit to their credit rating. In general it's really messed up when any creditor feels they have the right to enforce payment, since it was their responsibility to do due diligence before giving the loan. The situation becomes even more ethically questionable when you take into account that loans are often actively sold to people who can't afford them, often because the loan-giving institution doesn't plan on holding onto the loan in the first place (as in the financial crisis). The only exception to this might be a situation where the debtor lied when applying for the loan, and even then it's not entirely clear. Idk... any mortgage contract that did not include a right to foreclose would be defaulted on before the ink was dry, I think. No amount of due dilligence would be able to avoid the moral hazard.
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Dec 31, 2017 22:47
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wateroverfire posted:Do only mobile homes get built in that framework or how does that work? Seems untenable to me. The community agrees that people can exercise control over a certain parcel of land within some limits as agreed on by the community. Just like the way literally every form of sharing works. (And also the way private property actually works in our society, except without the rich having complete control of the government and therefore the ability to unilaterally dictate the limits of how land is used.)
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Dec 31, 2017 22:52
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, that post was a joke.
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Dec 31, 2017 23:16
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GlyphGryph posted:In a socialist framework Private property refers to capital property - property that generates value (in the Marxian sense which is a very limited meaning of the term) while personal property is just stuff. So I knew this, but the last part, about home ownership and land and that kind of stuff, is the stuff that really confuses me. I'm interested in arguments that people ought not to own land, but it's such an alien idea that I can't imagine what a world where private land ownership isn't a thing would look like, basically. (thank you for all of the responses, this is just the one that had the part I meant in it)
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Jan 1, 2018 01:33
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Common law systems have a provision for this via leasehold no?
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Jan 1, 2018 01:53
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The Iranian President is displeased with our president.
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Jan 1, 2018 01:54
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No loving poo poo. I too might get mad if an imperial power was openly gearing up for war.
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Jan 1, 2018 01:56
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Potato Salad posted:No loving poo poo. I too might get mad if an imperial power was openly gearing up for war. Don't worry, we're only at -42 aggressive expansion penalty so far. There's still room for plenty of no-CB wars to increase power projection as long as we don't officially claim any provinces. I am sure about three people will understand the joke
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Jan 1, 2018 02:11
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Roadie posted:Don't worry, we're only at -42 aggressive expansion penalty so far. There's still room for plenty of no-CB wars to increase power projection as long as we don't officially claim any provinces. Trump doesn’t have the admin or the advisors to core enough provinces before they form a coalition against us.
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Jan 1, 2018 02:38
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Please don't murder millions more, Americans.
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Jan 1, 2018 03:25
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Nosfereefer posted:Please don't murder millions more, Americans. what's in it for US if we don't? hand over the island of cuba for starters to show you're honest and we'll think about it
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Jan 1, 2018 03:33
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Pretty sure most Americans don't want a war with either Iran or NK. I don't think it'll go over the way they think it will.
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Jan 1, 2018 03:39
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You're in a better position to stop it than anyone? At least until UN peacekeepers are finally on the ground.
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Jan 1, 2018 03:43
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BrandorKP posted:Pretty sure most Americans don't want a war with either Iran or NK. I don't think it'll go over the way they think it will. I'm honestly not so sure about this.
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Jan 1, 2018 03:45
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Chilichimp posted:I'm honestly not so sure about this. Oh most of them hate the Iranians. Atleast the polling says that. But that's not the same as them wanting another middle east cluster gently caress.
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Jan 1, 2018 05:52
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BrandorKP posted:Oh most of them hate the Iranians. Atleast the polling says that. But that's not the same as them wanting another middle east cluster gently caress. I only hate the Iranians that the Americans put into power to spite the USSR. The other Iranians are OK
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Jan 1, 2018 05:57
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The US war with Iran is like the Iranian nuclear attack: it’s happening any day now.
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Jan 1, 2018 06:27
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Rich people seem to love the sunnis and I've repeatedly heard very wealthy individuals refer to shiites as "the crazy ones".
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Jan 1, 2018 06:38
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Democrazy posted:The US war with Iran is like the Iranian nuclear attack: it’s happening any day now. Yeah I thought invading Iraq was so stupid there was no chance it would happen.
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Jan 1, 2018 07:31
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Nosfereefer posted:Please don't murder millions more, Americans. Please don't blame us for the orange one, we didn't vote for him either.
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Jan 1, 2018 14:03
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Democrazy posted:The US war with Iran is like the Iranian nuclear attack: it’s happening any day now. Trump wants a war with *somewhere* - Iran could be the lucky country.
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Jan 1, 2018 14:04
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Please don't blame us for the orange one, we didn't vote for him either. The Iranians sure as hell didn't. You guys get rid of him, or are you waiting for a foreign surgical strike?
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Jan 1, 2018 15:01
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:the orange one, 
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Jan 1, 2018 15:13
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BrandorKP posted:Rich people seem to love the sunnis and I've repeatedly heard very wealthy individuals refer to shiites as "the crazy ones". you mean white people? Because yeah, white Americans think that shiites are evil because *gasp* the Iranians are largely shiite. Republicans posted:Yeah I thought invading Iraq was so stupid there was no chance it would happen. I was right there with you buddy.
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Jan 1, 2018 15:54
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Nosfereefer posted:The Iranians sure as hell didn't. You guys get rid of him, or are you waiting for a foreign surgical strike? Has the world considered not doing anything piss off the orange baby until we can correct this mistake? After the election we'll have more flexibility. Lets be honest, though, most of the rest of the world is laughing their asses off at America and you couldn't possibly be any more glib than you are right now.
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Jan 1, 2018 15:59
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Chilichimp posted:Lets be honest, though, most of the rest of the world is laughing their asses off at America it's a very nervous laughter, i can assure you
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Jan 1, 2018 16:01
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Chilichimp posted:Has the world considered not doing anything piss off the orange baby until we can correct this mistake? After the election we'll have more flexibility. While the prez being a gibbering idiot is kind of funny, the constant threats of another Iraq/Vietnam war or a full on nuclear war isn't. Stop trivializing how loving terrifying you guys are.
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Jan 1, 2018 16:15
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Nosfereefer posted:The Iranians sure as hell didn't. You guys get rid of him, or are you waiting for a foreign surgical strike? You got any bright ideas as to how? We're captives of our system like everyone else.
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Jan 1, 2018 16:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:You got any bright ideas as to how? We're captives of our system like everyone else. You put a man on the moon, did you not? I'm sure you will find out something clever.
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Jan 1, 2018 16:19
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