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You guys know that distilled water is only a dollar a gallon, right? I get wanting to cheap out on the antifreeze, but the cost of the water might as well be a rounding error in whatever work you're doing
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Jan 1, 2018 07:11
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Look at the throwback to genmay like fifteen years ago. I feel old right now. Wish I could recover my 2003 account over there, just for nostalgia. Don't have access to the email account anymore though. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 07:34
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Beach Bum posted:No poo poo. After pulling apart my 4A-GE 16v I resolved to never again mess around with anything other than purified/distilled water and coolant. Posting this again since people seem committed to ignorance re: tap water
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Jan 1, 2018 07:36
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BlackMK4 posted:Look at the throwback to genmay like fifteen years ago. I feel old right now. Were you not posting here fifteen years ago?
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Jan 1, 2018 08:03
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I didn't have an account at the time (didn't want to pay). I grew up on SomethingLeet/Icrontic/Apushardware in the 90's/first couple years of 2000, moved to HF/Genmay for the early 2000's, then moved here. Interestingly, syf0n was also from SomethingLeet. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 08:10
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Were you not posting here fifteen years ago? It's not 2015 anymore
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Jan 1, 2018 08:19
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Raluek posted:You guys know that distilled water is only a dollar a gallon, right? I get wanting to cheap out on the antifreeze, but the cost of the water might as well be a rounding error in whatever work you're doing  Fortunately, I usually have a couple gallons around for mine and my wife's CPAPs. Don't even have to go to the store.
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Jan 1, 2018 08:25
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Buying a $1 gallon of distilled water isn't too much more effort than filling a pitcher or pulling a hose around. Once you convince yourself to make the switch it's easy.
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Jan 1, 2018 08:36
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Beach Bum posted:Posting this again since people seem committed to ignorance re: tap water Same thing happened to me once. I ran low on coolant in ceduna, south australia during a cross country trip. I had concentrate so I thought tap water good enough (previously I always just used premix, but space was limited in this cross country trip so tap drinking water took priority for space, and I thought a small bottle of concentrate for the car was good enough). When got home I never bothered to flush it and change because I was broke and had too many other more important things to do - it should be right? About a year later my cyl head was corroded like that. Yes it was an old car known for doing cyl head gaskets (EA falcon), and yes SA tap water is really really bad, and who knows how well maintained for the 10 yrs before I bought it for $2k. But I'm never using tap water in a cooling system again I just wire brushed it, treated and devconed over the corrosion and it lasted for another 3 yrs. PITA having to remove a cylinder head to slap on some devcon and new gasket though. Fo3 fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 08:37
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Yeah go to the grocery store and spend a dollar for distilled water you dipshits.
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Jan 1, 2018 08:51
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BlackMK4 posted:Look at the throwback to genmay like fifteen years ago. I feel old right now.  (looking at my post history, on the other hand...  )
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Jan 1, 2018 09:20
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Electrolytes. They're what blocks crave.
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Jan 1, 2018 13:26
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The only annoying thing for me about distilled water is that the cheap gallon jugs inevitably degrade in my garage. Just enough that if I have a sealed bottle sitting there, a few months later I'll notice it still "sealed" but leaking and partly collapsed on itself. Otherwise I'd just keep a couple gallons in the garage for convenience.
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Jan 1, 2018 20:15
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Yep, that's what happened to two 3800 II engined cars I've had (1997 Malibu and The 97 Malibu had a 3.8? My dad had a 98 and it only came with a 3.1.
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Jan 2, 2018 00:55
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IOwnCalculus posted:The only annoying thing for me about distilled water is that the cheap gallon jugs inevitably degrade in my garage. Just enough that if I have a sealed bottle sitting there, a few months later I'll notice it still "sealed" but leaking and partly collapsed on itself. Otherwise I'd just keep a couple gallons in the garage for convenience. I thought I was going crazy! I had 2 sealed jugs just start crinkling and collapsing and couldn't figure it out If I change it in fall or winter I'll commit the sin of buying a gallon of premix and a gallon of concentrate, pour in the premix and top off the last liter or so with concentrate. My grandpa has me programmed to have "winterized coolant" that's stlightly more concentrated, just in case... of something. He never said what he was preventing, but it stuck in my brain Plus, I'll have a perfectly portioned bottle of concentrate to mix with distilled the next time I change my coolant
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Jan 2, 2018 03:12
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optimum ratio is 65% or so:
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Jan 2, 2018 03:45
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Today I learned.
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Jan 2, 2018 03:54
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I duuno that chart could be wrong who even knows where it came from.
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Jan 2, 2018 04:00
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I'm pretty sure it's legit. The only way Honda sells full strength antifreeze is in a little quart bottle. You drain a little out, top it off with the quart, and your mix is now closer to 60/40, for "extreme conditions".
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Jan 2, 2018 04:58
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It's also only tracking freezing point. Water is better at heat transfer, though.
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Jan 2, 2018 05:03
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The things I worry more about than temperature or heat transfer are viscosity and flow rate. I don't know enough about that stuff to actually comment, but other than automakers not trusting techs to mix coolant in the right ratios, there has to be some reason that the extra 10% of ethylene glycol doesn't normally get mixed in
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Jan 2, 2018 05:44
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I made that chart and was just trying to be funny. There's some more stuff to go with it here: http://hellafunctional.com/?p=629 Hadn't really thought of flow and viscosity, but I suppose that yeah full of just anti-freeze would be more viscous and would reduce the flow rate slightly. But it's probably just because 50:50 is easier to mix and, gives a little more heat capacity, and drops the freezing point enough for nearly all conditions.
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Jan 2, 2018 05:59
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I'll read that at work tomorrow but please make more stickers. My old one died on the GSXR750 that claimed my concussion virginity at AMP turn 1.
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Jan 2, 2018 06:26
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I have learned from this thread that owning a fifty-year-old Pontiac rocks because it gives zero fucks what flavor of water I put in it. It’s occasionally operated in subzero weather, so I do use antifreeze. Pre-mix is a scam.
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Jan 2, 2018 07:09
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jamal posted:I made that chart and was just trying to be funny. There's some more stuff to go with it here: The More You Know That article satisfies my curiosity pretty thoroughly, thank you. My worries about viscosity were just about interactions with weeping valves and premature water pump failure, since they're a pain in the rear end to change on transverse engines. I suppose that any changes in flow rate would realistically be covered by the umbrella of heat capacity Well, at least I now for-sure know that I'm wasting my time and making my heater less effective because the freezing point of 50/50 is well below the lowest recorded temperature in Chicago
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Jan 2, 2018 07:13
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Godholio posted:It's also only tracking freezing point. Water is better at heat transfer, though. Yeah, and antifreeze also raises the boiling point as well as lowers the freezing point, and with pressurized coolant systems, it raises the boiling point even higher. Also has lubricants for the water pump's seals to keep them healthy (not the lubricate the pump, but to keep the seals from going bad quickly.). CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 13:34
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The Door Frame posted:The things I worry more about than temperature or heat transfer are viscosity and flow rate. I don't know enough about that stuff to actually comment, but other than automakers not trusting techs to mix coolant in the right ratios, there has to be some reason that the extra 10% of ethylene glycol doesn't normally get mixed in There are some water-free "permanent" coolants out there, that are essentially pure glycol (ethylene or propylene) with stuff other than water added to improve its properties. Jay Leno is always promoting some on his videos. I have no idea how its performance compares with traditional water/glycol coolants, but it apparently works well enough (at least in places where it doesn't get too hot or too cold).
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Jan 2, 2018 16:15
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PainterofCrap posted:I have learned from this thread that owning a fifty-year-old Pontiac rocks because it gives zero fucks what flavor of water I put in it. Jesus gently caress no. Well yeah premix IS a scam, but the water jackets in that block probably look like utter poo poo right now. Half the reason old muscle cars overheat is because they spent 30 years getting hose water and the jackets have been sloughing material into the radiator.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:27
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Deteriorata posted:There are some water-free "permanent" coolants out there, that are essentially pure glycol (ethylene or propylene) with stuff other than water added to improve its properties. Jay Leno is always promoting some on his videos. Water free? This I gotta hear, betting its still water...
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Jan 2, 2018 16:27
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CommieGIR posted:Water free? This I gotta hear, betting its still water... Here's the one Leno touts: https://www.evanscoolant.com/
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Jan 2, 2018 16:29
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Deteriorata posted:There are some water-free "permanent" coolants out there, that are essentially pure glycol (ethylene or propylene) with stuff other than water added to improve its properties. Jay Leno is always promoting some on his videos. I've heard of that poo poo. You don't need a rad cap, because the boiling point is high enough you don't need pressure or some poo poo. And I think the water pump had to be changed? I remember seeing it on Shade Tree Mechanic like (almost) 20 years ago. Back when Spike TV was still TNN.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:32
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Godholio posted:Jesus gently caress no. Well yeah premix IS a scam, but the water jackets in that block probably look like utter poo poo right now. Half the reason old muscle cars overheat is because they spent 30 years getting hose water and the jackets have been sloughing material into the radiator. Nah, the ions in hose water makes no difference at all. The metal in the engine slowly corrodes on contact with water, which is where the metal ions come from to form scale. There's not enough metal ions even in reasonably hard water to form much scale on its own.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:33
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Deteriorata posted:Here's the one Leno touts: https://www.evanscoolant.com/ MSDS for it claims its just standard coolant. Lists water as an ingredient, 60% Ethylene/Propylene Glycol, 2% corrosion inhibitor, and the rest is water. Deteriorata posted:Nah, the ions in hose water makes no difference at all. The metal in the engine slowly corrodes on contact with water, which is where the metal ions come from to form scale. And as I previous posted, it only becomes a real issue when the coolant gets older, as it begins to retain a charge and then really corrodes everything. Minor corrosion is normal, but if those metal ions from corrosion are allowed to continue to circulate, they'll create a charge and then really go to town. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 16:34
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CommieGIR posted:MSDS for it claims its just standard coolant. Lists water as an ingredient, 60% Ethylene/Propylene Glycol, 2% corrosion inhibitor, and the rest is water. Their data sheet says it's 0.5% water by mass percent.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:39
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Deteriorata posted:Their data sheet says it's 0.5% water by mass percent. I must have an older datasheet.
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Jan 2, 2018 16:41
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I don't buy into Evans coolant - if it was as awesome as they claim, why hasn't an OEM licensed it for the first sealed-for-life cooling system?
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Jan 2, 2018 16:49
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IOwnCalculus posted:I don't buy into Evans coolant - if it was as awesome as they claim, why hasn't an OEM licensed it for the first sealed-for-life cooling system? Less income for their dealer shops?
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Jan 2, 2018 17:04
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They already took transmission services away with sealed for life (until the transmission burns up) transmissions. Though I suppose a 5-year / 100k interval already puts that mostly on second owners.
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Jan 2, 2018 17:14
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Deteriorata posted:There's not enough metal ions even in reasonably hard water to form much scale on its own. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall hardness being strictly a measure of dissolved CaCO3, so it doesn't really measure the content of other metals? I could be way off here - my knowledge on the subject is mostly from being a plumber and trying to learn more about softeners and RO systems via Google. I know that Fluorine, Chlorine, and Bromine levels can vary a lot in tap water as well, and we had separate tests for those as well as pH. I can tell you first hand how lovely Tucson's water can be. I've seen 26 gr/gal of hardness. If you don't run a softener on that you're gonna wind up with a water heater full of rocks in no time flat. So glad I moved back to Seattle. Tangentially horrible and mechanically related, we also tested the city supply pressure so we could sell PRV's. I remember seeing 120+ PSI at more than one house. (~60-70 is ideal, 80+ is high, 100 is FOH territory.) e: I also saw a lot of service risers put together by idiots who either didn't know what dielectric unions were or just didn't give a gently caress. That poo poo would usually start leaking after a couple of years, max. Farmdizzle fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 17:23
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IOwnCalculus posted:I don't buy into Evans coolant - if it was as awesome as they claim, why hasn't an OEM licensed it for the first sealed-for-life cooling system? For the same reason the 100MPG carb disappeared. 
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Jan 2, 2018 17:24
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C-Bangin' it 