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Open Marriage Night posted:I just miss the Batman Inc characters. El Gaucho, Batman Japan, and Cass Cain in a costume with a bat on it. What is Cass's status now?
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Jan 2, 2018 17:39
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hiddenriverninja posted:What is Cass's status now? She’s part of the detective comics crew where she’s best friends with Clayface and goes by the name “Orphan”
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Jan 2, 2018 17:42
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Doctor Spaceman posted:
I dunno how people can say that when Superheavy is right there. In other news I caught up on Dark Nights: Metal and that's the loving craziest crossover event I think I've ever read. I don't think I've ever read a crossover event that is so continuity and lore-heavy, that references so many different stories. Like, this event is loving nuts: it uses as specific plot points Final Crisis, CoIE, ROBW, The fuckin' Multiversity, most of Snyder's run, the most iconic Batman scene in history...I really thought this was gonna be some disposable action event and it's so, so steeped in the lore of both Batman and DC in general it's loving astounding.
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Jan 2, 2018 18:22
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Superheavy was good and fun, further proving that Snyder excels at writing Batmen who aren't Bruce Wayne
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Jan 2, 2018 19:04
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hiddenriverninja posted:What is Cass's status now? Doing a whole lot of nothing with the Gotham Knights group in 'tec. The book's been a bit hit and miss for me since Rebirth, but Tynion hasn't really handled any of the women on the team particularly well. Cass has gotten some good, standout moments and has a cute dynamic with Clayface at times, but she mostly tends to just... hang around. Steph's been reduced to "Tim's drama inducer" and is pretty far out of character, and Batwoman is mostly just there for the sake of it despite supposedly being the team's leader/mentor.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:30
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I wish she would just use Black Bat as her code name again. And use a cape.
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Jan 2, 2018 21:36
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I think Snyder's Riddler is great. While every Batman has their hand at death traps that's really always been the Riddler's Thing beyond just the riddles, and what he does is a natural outgrowth of that.
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Jan 2, 2018 22:10
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Abroham Lincoln posted:Doing a whole lot of nothing with the Gotham Knights group in 'tec. The book's been a bit hit and miss for me since Rebirth, but Tynion hasn't really handled any of the women on the team particularly well. Cass has gotten some good, standout moments and has a cute dynamic with Clayface at times, but she mostly tends to just... hang around. Steph's been reduced to "Tim's drama inducer" and is pretty far out of character, and Batwoman is mostly just there for the sake of it despite supposedly being the team's leader/mentor. I don't know, I think Cass is probably one of the best characters in the book and the Cass/Clayface friendship is one of the few subplots that works pretty much 100% of the time. It's just a shame that Tynion's so obsessed with his villain OCs, the Victim Syndicate and the Colony, since they're both pretty tired and boring at this point, yet all signs point to them dominating the book for the foreseeable future. Like I said in the DC thread a while back, Detective could use a few issues that are just about character building or the team hanging out and less status quo-disrupting events. The team pretty much doesn't even have a status quo since it gets disrupted every arc. I think the best issue in the book was probably the one that was just Cass going around and being depressed, and it was just setting up some things for the future and exploring her character. We need more of that, and less THE VICTIM SYNDICATE ARE BACK! AND OH NO, WILL KATE JOIN THE COLONY??? crap. Agreed about Steph, though. It's clear he draws a lot of inspiration from the early Dixon take on the character, but she's been pretty insufferable for a while now.
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Jan 2, 2018 22:44
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It feels like they need a fun issue. Team books always need a fun issue every so often. I don't think X-Men would have gone this long without everyone going to the mall or playing baseball
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Jan 2, 2018 22:53
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It seems to be a thing in Rebirth where you can't put a storyline on the back burner. 80% of Green Arrow has been about one thing too. It's crazy to me that the current Superman/Teen Titans crossover with alternate-future Tim Drake started directly after Lonely Place of Living. Give us a chance to miss a thing first. e: Did I say Tim? I meant... 
Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 2, 2018 |
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Jan 2, 2018 23:02
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Darth Nat posted:I don't know, I think Cass is probably one of the best characters in the book and the Cass/Clayface friendship is one of the few subplots that works pretty much 100% of the time. It's just a shame that Tynion's so obsessed with his villain OCs, the Victim Syndicate and the Colony, since they're both pretty tired and boring at this point, yet all signs point to them dominating the book for the foreseeable future. I definitely agree that when they give Cass some focus it works really well, but I feel like she's been shuffled into the background pretty heavily as of late. I know Tim was written out of the story a while, but everything seems to just revolve around him now (which again does hurt Steph the most since she's utterly lacking in an identity outside of him, now). I remember there being some hints at a status quo with one throwaway sentence of narration like, "Cass and Steph seem so happy together," but that's literally it, and it shows none of it at all. Fun issues would definitely help, but from the look of solicits it seems like it's just doubling down and going heavier on more Tim. 
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Jan 2, 2018 23:03
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Teenage Fansub posted:It seems to be a thing in Rebirth where you can't put a storyline on the back burner. 80% of Green Arrow has been about one thing too. Why is Jason Todd sqying he is tim?
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Jan 2, 2018 23:34
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Mr Hootington posted:Why is Jason Todd sqying he is tim? Because as time goes on the odds of every single Robin appearing as Nightwing or Red Hood approach 100%.
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Jan 2, 2018 23:40
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Teenage Fansub posted:
The S means hope
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Jan 3, 2018 00:11
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Booo. Why must Tim (aka best Robin) become a Red Hood knockoff?
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Jan 3, 2018 00:16
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Madkal posted:Booo. Why must Tim (aka best Robin) become a Red Hood knockoff? That one is from the future.
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Jan 3, 2018 00:21
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I dunno how people can say that when Superheavy is right there.
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Jan 3, 2018 04:02
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I hate Superheavy because everything, everything about Bat-Gordon felt like the worst and most boring wheel spinning waiting for Batman to come back, and to me Snyder clearly had no heart in or commitment to writing Bat-Gordon. At no point did I believe or buy Gordon as Batman, just as an imposter who Batman tried to make feel better with the "that guy was your villain" line like Snyder just threw his hands up in the air and gave up but on the way out decided to assure everyone that Gordon was no really for reals a real Batman you guys. Like, to me, the good parts of Superheavy are the Bruce Wayne parts, and the reformed Joker parts, because they're the only emotionally resonant or built with care sections of the arc. They're the only parts that communicate the author's clear desire to write them, and are the only fully formed as a result. Everything about Bat-Gordon was regrettable and forgettable, and that's speaking as someone who considers Dickbat the best Batman. To me Snyder's biggest failure as a Batman writer is that he's really only comfortable writing Batman and even more specifically Bruce Wayne. People point to Black Mirror, but to me that's basically a Bruce Wayne Batman story with the names filed off; at no point during it outside of some of his interactions with Red Robin did that feel like Dick Grayson wearing the cowl. Like, Dick's super Bruce Wayne-y during that story; he's super harried and serious and stressed out and paranoid over how he is in Batman and Robin, where he's Damian's goofy fun older brother. Snyder's clear distaste for writing Damian Wayne both as character and as concept is pretty well-documented, considering his entire N52 run has Damian showing up in barely a half-dozen issues, and never as the focus. Zero Year is Snyder's best story and as a matter of course it sweeps the entire Bat-Family off the table. I really like Death of the Family, but it's more about Batman trying to save his adopted kids than the actual adopted kids themselves unless you read the tie-ins, which weren't written by him. He came up with and implemented Duke Thomas and Harper Row, but even then they only really get fleshed out in Batman/Batman and Robin Eternal, which it isn't clear how much actual writing he did on each series (my guess is, not much; the both seem way more like Tynion stories than Snyder stories). Harper Row, especially, suffers from being a super dynamic character that ends up more or less as a completely dropped ball moving forward because Snyder didn't give Bluebird time on the main book and, uh, Tynion isn't using her. Duke Thomas got an essentially solo series because of We Are Robin and seems only really relevant moving forward because of a combination of that, his role as some human-shaped macguffin depending on where Metal goes, and an attempt at some actual racial diversity with the Bat-books moving forward. Duke's probably the closest to interested Snyder has been in writing a major ancillary heroic character who isn't Batman in a Bat-book but even then he feels kind of half-assed. Fnally we're at Snyder's Rebirth stuff, which ASB has as its first arc a Batman paired solely with a villain story (I'm not current on ASB) and Dark Nights: Metal, which I am current with, in which the Bat-Family plays no significant role in the issues that Snyder wrote. There's a big reference to The Signal being a Super Important Dude in the beginning, but Snyder basically has not revisited anyone at all related directly to Batman outside of Duke Thomas in prelude issues and one scene with Damian/Nightwing in a bar before immediately pivoting to something else. The one throughline through Snyder's near-decade of Batman books is his lack of any real interest in writing anything besides Batman and specifically Bruce Wayne as Batman. It's why I really hate Superheavy as much as I do, because to me it reads as an author who came up with a really insane and cool idea (Iron Man Batman piloted by Jim Gordon!) that he immediately backed away from because of a subconscious desire to continually write Bruce Wayne Batman no matter what, and you can see it in how once amnesiac Bruce Wayne arrives in the arc, BOOM, it's immediately and suddenly way more of a dynamic and interesting comic. Like, Bruce Wayne's throughline about being nervous about, wanting desperately not to, then finally, sadly deciding to become Batman again - over the Joker's stringent objections - is much, much more interesting than anything Gord-Bats does. Like, I think Snyder on the whole is a really good to outright great - like, pantheon great - Batman writer, but if there's one constant thing I keep returning to in his Batman bibliography it's that he's at his best when writing the character of Bruce Wayne in the Batman cowl and absolutely nothing else, as Zero Year/Metal/All-Star Batman prove. He seems unwilling to uncomfortable writing Batman's supporting characters and seems wishy-washy at best at implementing them within his stories in a way that they can command equal screentime to Batman. NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 04:40
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I assume Snyder loved Superheavy. He was hyping it up at the time like he did before Metal, all "Hey guys, I just got the craziest Batman idea I could think of approved! You should see what brother Greg cooked up!" and I can believe he relished the chance to put the long-term mythologizing on hold for a while to let Gordon do a bit of old fashioned goon busting. I recall everyone was a bit sick of things by the end of Endgame, so it worked out pretty well. It could have even benefited from having a more superfluous tone. I remember being excited for the cover introducing Mr. Bloom in a field of flowers, then being a bit bummed that he was really as dark and nasty and serious as any other Snyder big bad. edit: I'd say the biggest mistake of his whole run was leaving it up to Arkham Manor to set up the orderly Joker was hiding out as. If you're just reading Snyder Batman, that reveal is nothing. Maybe you remember him a teensy bit if you bothered to read Annual #2 or whatever, but probably not. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 3, 2018 |
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Jan 3, 2018 05:00
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That's my issue with Superheavy. It's all about how Jim Gordon never believes in himself and thinks he's a fuckup and an imposter and he's a failure, and he's mired with a super dark and nasty mass murderer, and then it ends with Batman taking over and going "but no, seriously, good job kid, thanks for keeping the car warm". Like it ends before Gordon even has a chance to actually be Batman and especially Batman in success. I honestly think if they Tony Stark-ed Jim Gordon instead of made him a doubtful sadsack, as Iron Man Batman sort of feels like the natural time to do so, and especially if they actually let him be Batman for a while instead of...what, ten issues? And halfway through it becomes a Bruce Wayne story anyways? ...I would've considered it a classic at the level I consider Dickbats to be a classic. Instead it feels like one big mistake whose entire impact was a single plot point in Metal.
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Jan 3, 2018 05:08
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I really hope the 'Superfriends' trade keeps this issue in the middle, just for kicks.
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Jan 3, 2018 10:36
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Teenage Fansub posted:It seems to be a thing in Rebirth where you can't put a storyline on the back burner. 80% of Green Arrow has been about one thing too. It's odd. I mis-saw the Batman symbol as the Azrael-Batman logo from way back when. Then I saw the guns and was kinda, wait a minute, Azrael doesn't use guns.
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Jan 3, 2018 11:04
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Teenage Fansub posted:I really hope the 'Superfriends' trade keeps this issue in the middle, just for kicks. Aaaand King's streak ends. It was a fine issue, but kind of a rehash of Hush (the villain, not the story). At least the next two issues are the Wonder Woman part of Superfriends.
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Jan 3, 2018 14:48
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SMP posted:At least the next two issues are the Wonder Woman part of Superfriends. *hovers mouse away from Cancel Subscription* This really was a blah issue. King's style requires great releases of tension through moments that shatter or redefine the narrative. This issue felt like a waiting room compared to the whole run up til now.
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Jan 4, 2018 03:29
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This issue was fine. The twist ending was obvious and doesn't work but up until then it's pretty interesting. In contrast Batman and The Signal was loving incomprehensible. At least it's Snyder writing someone who isn't Batman but it's not an issue that makes like, absolutely any sense whatsoever.
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Jan 4, 2018 03:35
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Indeed, having THOMAS and MARTHA scratched into one's face is not an interesting finale. I'd expect that from the new talent showcase, but not in the middle of Superfriends and after all the "I Am..." arcs.
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Jan 4, 2018 03:51
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I thought it was fantastic, even if the level of scheming presented may not really be believable coming from that particular villain 60's Batman TV type clue solving is always appreciated, though. I just want the trade readers, who usually have fill-in comics shuffled away for their comfort, to experience that whiplash. It'd be a fun time reading user reviews.
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Jan 4, 2018 04:03
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Space Fish posted:Indeed, having THOMAS and MARTHA scratched into one's face is not an interesting finale. Again it's not like the worst thing ever. It's definitely weaker than...everything that came before, but Tom King is a fuckin' King Midas when it comes to the comics he writes so I can excuse an off day. Like, I fuckin' loved War of Jokes and Riddles, the two arcs immediately after were arguably better, the Catwoman proposal is one of the flat-out best developments I've seen in any Batman issue ever. He can have an issue that doesn't cohere into a complete one-shot, he has earned my trust in him for him to make a mistake. It's not even ruinous in the way, say Snyder's Batman annual in N52 where he made Mr. Freeze into a mass-murdering lunatic was. This hurts nothing and it's just sorta mediocre. Oh well. Saying you're gonna cancel a subscription off of one bad issue is...presumptive, to say the least. I mean, even fuckin' Morrison had The Clown at Midnight and everything about Batman Inc., volume 2. Perfection is impossible unless it's super short and constructed like...well, King's Vision and Omega Men and possibly his Mister Miracle if things shake out how they look.
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Jan 4, 2018 04:05
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Again it's not like the worst thing ever. It's definitely weaker than...everything that came before, but Tom King is a fuckin' King Midas when it comes to the comics he writes so I can excuse an off day. Like, I fuckin' loved War of Jokes and Riddles, the two arcs immediately after were arguably better, the Catwoman proposal is one of the flat-out best developments I've seen in any Batman issue ever. He can have an issue that doesn't cohere into a complete one-shot, he has earned my trust in him for him to make a mistake. It's not even ruinous in the way, say Snyder's Batman annual in N52 where he made Mr. Freeze into a mass-murdering lunatic was. This hurts nothing and it's just sorta mediocre. Oh well. Saying you're gonna cancel a subscription off of one bad issue is...presumptive, to say the least. I mean, even fuckin' Morrison had The Clown at Midnight and everything about Batman Inc., volume 2. Perfection is impossible unless it's super short and constructed like...well, King's Vision and Omega Men and possibly his Mister Miracle if things shake out how they look. Just a quick aside but read Sheriff of Babylon as well if you haven't. King's Vision and Omega Men gets referenced a lot (by me) but his Sheriff of Babylon is excellent stuff too.
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Jan 4, 2018 04:44
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:Saying you're gonna cancel a subscription off of one bad issue is...presumptive, to say the least. I mean, even fuckin' Morrison had The Clown at Midnight and everything about Batman Inc., volume 2. Innocent hyperbole, friend. I'm a giant King fanboy, too.
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Jan 4, 2018 05:02
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Broken City did that concept far better by actually making it about Bruce project his own ideas and beliefs onto his image of the kid without realising what was actually going on. And the end is far better with Bruce crying in the gutter and then desperately clinging to hope as the sun rises.
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Jan 4, 2018 14:09
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Bluebird's costume is better than The Signal's costume (and name).
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Jan 5, 2018 02:42
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I just realized that the guy responsible for bringing Jason Todd back to life is fuckin' Judd from The Real World. I hate Under The Red Hood a lot but knowing that the Judd Winick who pitched and wrote that is the same guy who was on the forefront of AIDS education because of the reality tv show he was on makes that go down a lot better.
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Jan 5, 2018 03:44
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I just realized that the guy responsible for bringing Jason Todd back to life is fuckin' Judd from The Real World. You should read his comics.
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Jan 5, 2018 03:53
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I like Winnick's Exiles, and I wish they would bring back Mia as Speedy. Never read Winnick's Titans though.
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Jan 5, 2018 03:56
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:I just realized that the guy responsible for bringing Jason Todd back to life is fuckin' Judd from The Real World. Fun fact. Winnick never planned for Jason's return to be a permanent thing. He only used him on UtRH because he thought it would be a neat idea to have him Jason be a villain and was completely baffled at his popularity. It was editorial that kept Jason around and despite Winnick going back and writing a few more stories with Jason, he never saw him as nothing more than a villain. The Red Hood most people are familiar with these days is pretty much all Lobdell.
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Jan 5, 2018 03:57
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The Jason Todd fake out in Hush got a lot of people ready for a real return.
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Jan 5, 2018 08:09
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Roth posted:I like Winnick's Exiles, and I wish they would bring back Mia as Speedy. I'm also Eh on his Green Lantern. He had some interesting concepts for Kyle, but making Nero when Effigy was right there (And better in my opinion) and the change of Kyle's personality never sat well with me. I also hate the new costume, but I'm not sure that was so much his fault.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:17
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Lick! The! Whisk! posted:the Catwoman proposal is one of the flat-out best developments I've seen in any Batman issue ever. I always wanted Batman comics to go this way. But since this is mainstream Batman comics and not some Earth-1 thing that will eventually find a natural conclusion, I'm just waiting for Batman to trade his marriage to Neron in order to save Alfred.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:51
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Alfred would rather die than not see Bruce married
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Jan 5, 2018 17:24
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