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Roller Coast Guard posted:That the AI sailed a full invasion force to Singapore Harbour unnoticed, then turned and fled in the face of slight resistance without even attempting a landing, is the most WitP thing i think ive ever seen. Imagine all the "what if" books that would be written about this event in this world.
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Dec 29, 2017 19:38
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RA Rx posted:Wikipedia seems to say they were rescued by 4 Canadian corvettes? Oh, well that's very polite of them. I tend to just assume everyone drowns when a ship sinks, because the size of the ocean and the effort needed to stay above the surface makes it mind boggling to me that there's even the slightest chance of being rescued in time.
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Dec 29, 2017 19:43
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Looking up the German blockade breaking efforts led me to the SS City of Cairo, whose crew must've run over Poseidon's favorite dolphin or something: After being torpedoed, the survivors have the choice of making for St Helena (500 miles) or South America (1k miles) on 110ml of water a day. Then: quote:Of one boat with 17 people on board, after a voyage of 51 days, only the third officer and a female passenger were still alive when their boat was spotted by the Brazilian Navy minelayer Caravelas. The third officer was repatriated on the City of Pretoria, but was killed when the ship was torpedoed and sunk by U-172 on 4 March 1943. The female survivor, Margaret Gordon, was awarded the BEM, but refused to cross the Atlantic until the war was over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_City_of_Cairo
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Dec 29, 2017 20:24
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He was probably mad that she used her propellor to carve up a poor little tugboat named Speedy!Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Oh, well that's very polite of them. I tend to just assume everyone drowns when a ship sinks, because the size of the ocean and the effort needed to stay above the surface makes it mind boggling to me that there's even the slightest chance of being rescued in time. Yeah, it's pretty hard if noone knows where your ship sank. But it's actually pretty easy to pick people up if you are within visual range when the ship sinks (such as from causing it), unless its rough seas. Warships in particular are fast, well trained at rescuing sailors, and have plenty of space in the brig unless it's a submarine. Wikipedia posted:Merten spoke to the occupants of No. 6 boat, asked the ship's name, cargo and whether it was carrying prisoners of war. He then gave a course for the nearest land, which by now was either the Brazilian coast, approximately 2,000 miles (3,200 km) away, Africa was 1,000 miles (1,600 km) and St Helena was 500 miles (800 km).[clarification needed] Merten then left them, with the words "Goodnight, and sorry for sinking you".[2] He privately thought that they had little chance of survival.[2] Well, jeepers. That wasn't nice. At least take a few women and children on. Edited: Oh, turns out 4 of the 6 boats got rescued by two different merchant ships. The two boats as mentioned above drifted too far off from the others... RA Rx fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 21:08
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Ikasuhito posted:Imagine all the "what if" books that would be written about this event in this world. I'm certain that one W.Churchill had the original idea. It almost worked!
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Dec 30, 2017 00:41
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Deep Dish Fuckfest posted:Oh, well that's very polite of them. I tend to just assume everyone drowns when a ship sinks, because the size of the ocean and the effort needed to stay above the surface makes it mind boggling to me that there's even the slightest chance of being rescued in time. The thing is, that could happen - especially if they were enemy ships - since ships generally had standing orders to avoid potential risk, especially of possible submarines, when considering rescue operations. This is in fact the reason so few of Bismarck's crew survived - unlike Hood the majority of the crew survived the sinking, but the British ships that did start engaging in rescue operation left in very short order after potential U-boat sightings in the area. For the other side of the coin, you occasionally had instances where captains would defy orders in order to render aid. After the Second Battle of the Java Sea, LCDR Shunsaku Kudo onboard IJN destroyer Ikazuchi, along with its division mate Inazuma, quietly made the decision to defy the significant risk of submarine attack in order to render aid to the survivors of USS Pope, HMS Encounter and HMS Exeter, rescuing hundreds of men out of the water.
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Dec 30, 2017 03:33
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Lord Koth posted:For the other side of the coin, you occasionally had instances where captains would defy orders in order to render aid. After the Second Battle of the Java Sea, LCDR Shunsaku Kudo onboard IJN destroyer Ikazuchi, along with its division mate Inazuma, quietly made the decision to defy the significant risk of submarine attack in order to render aid to the survivors of USS Pope, HMS Encounter and HMS Exeter, rescuing hundreds of men out of the water. Might've been more humane to let them drown than be POWs
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Dec 30, 2017 05:43
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Whats the protocol on that, torpedoing a ship thats rescuing your own dudes. I guess it'd be hard to tell they were doing that in the first place
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Dec 30, 2017 05:56
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The Chad Jihad posted:Whats the protocol on that, torpedoing a ship thats rescuing your own dudes. I guess it'd be hard to tell they were doing that in the first place Usually its not transmitted, and subs don't really want to make calls prior to torpedoing their target, so it ultimately falls in the unfortunate costs of war column
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Dec 30, 2017 06:02
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   Well, that'll be at least one, more likely two or three Essex class out on the hunt.  My men have more guts than brains.  At least all their fighters are on the defensive!   The Allies are pushing big here! The new Spitfires are showing the age of our fighters.  The Maryland could sink – but I'm not expecting it!   The Tide continues to flow upwards. You can feel it – I can't take more days with plane losses like that! 
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Dec 30, 2017 06:14
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Shot of your naval aviator top pilots if you have the time? I take it you can't just move army air service pilots over to the navy... Or can you?
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Dec 30, 2017 10:57
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   One of my short hop haulers is picked off.  These guys are just overwhelmed.  We do a but better on the defensive, but not much.  People have wondered where my Bettys are at, so I have a look.  I have all of ten squadrons. I'll move some of the ones in Japan to Singapore.  We continue to get old kills.
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Dec 30, 2017 19:15
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RA Rx posted:Shot of your naval aviator top pilots if you have the time? IJN/IJA have separate pilot pools, as do the USAAF/USN/USMC and each individual Allied nation on the other side. I don't think there's any way to move them from one pool to the other. Also, managing pilots is the worst. An egregious example was when a USMC squadron upgraded to Avengers. I don't think there's any way to train them in torpedo bombing while they're in Vindicators/Dauntlesses, so their NavT skills were all in the 20-35 range when they upgraded. The AI chose the next week to sail 4 BBs into range of them. Out of 60ish sorties in decent weather, they scored, I think, 3 hits. A lot of British/Commonwealth squadrons upgrade from bombers to fighters in late '42, so you're stuck with terrible A2A pilots in them for a few weeks as you get them trained up. If you're grognardier than me, you might know how to shuffle the correct pilots in and out of rear-area groups running training missions, but the interface and documentation sure don't make it easy!
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Dec 30, 2017 21:52
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Usually its not transmitted, and subs don't really want to make calls prior to torpedoing their target, so it ultimately falls in the unfortunate costs of war column
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Jan 1, 2018 04:42
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What's horrible about drowning dishonorabu cowards? ... Well, if it's an allied prisoner transport that won't be the attitude. If it's a Japanese one I'm not sure I want to live, with what I've read about overstacking. Or Italians and Japanese, on their way to a cushy camp in Australia... Where the Japanese will riot and escape into the certain death of Australian nature, while the Italians are so cooperative they're allowed to roam free and marry their daughters. RA Rx fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Jan 1, 2018 |
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Jan 1, 2018 04:52
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   Owch, and the first one was a dud as well.  Another wave attack, oh, wait defence.  Benjamin Lundy, sunk on a Sunday – which is a nice surprise!  We get mauled again.  94 squads destroyed but less than 600 casualties? They are scraping the barrel!   We capture the first of those three northern cities in a day.  Further south we continue to clean up.  I's been so long since we captured a base – this one is not worth much, but it's on the road to better targets. 
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Jan 1, 2018 05:17
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31 December 1943 Minesweeping is a dangerous business: British minesweeper Clacton mined of the east coast of Corsica.
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Jan 1, 2018 23:06
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   A new year, the same old problems.  Tomorrow I order a shock attack.  I might not need to though!  Once again the Chinese flee before my advancing forces. Annoyingly, they do so north, cutting the supply line for my main force.  That was a good start to the year, wiping out a division of Marines! They were worth 280 points with the other units destroyed there.  We begin selotaping new AA guns to the Yamato.  Yeah, we all know this is not going to be pretty.  Score are still looking healthy, but you can see the jump after the carrier battle.   These two only show how far behind the Allied offensives are, I'd taken a few key bases by now as the Allies, and the AI has failed to take Jaluit – though they did give me a scare at Singapore – that said, it has highlighted a weakness in my defences.  While high this month, we are still doing well on my plane losses. Not that it will help me in the long term.  This is without a division of dead marines. Japan will not be having any real post war labour problems here!  In raw numbers, it's not been a bad month.  This one shows the real damage. This next year is going to be a tough one, but if I can hold out without loosing to much ground, then “victory” in 46 is a good bet. They need to crack a few good nuts to get to the homeland, and they have not even STARTED to bomb Japan yet, so they are dropping behind in points there. That said, with a much reduced carrier force, things are going to be tough.
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Jan 2, 2018 06:49
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I think you mentioned that you were accelerating the conscrution of some carriers and dropping others. Will those be coming online this year or not? Also you've been playing great, ths is always an amazing thread to read. So realistically how is your shipping holding up and remaining carriers? Also congrats on the Marine div.
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Jan 2, 2018 07:21
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wedgekree posted:I think you mentioned that you were accelerating the conscrution of some carriers and dropping others. Will those be coming online this year or not? Grey cancelled the 3 '45 Unryus (historically never completed) and accelerated Junyo, which entered service in 42. That leaves Taiho (around march if it wasn't accelerated), The 3 Unryus, and Shinano this year. The light carrier Ibuki will come in '45, assuming it gets finished. Grey also has the option of converting the seaplane carriers Chiyoda, Chitose, Mizuho, and Nisshin into light carriers roughly equivalent to the Zuiho class. Any conversions will take about a year IIRC.
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Jan 2, 2018 08:29
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Such a weird war.
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Jan 2, 2018 12:42
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Triggerhappypilot posted:Grey also has the option of converting the seaplane carriers Chiyoda, Chitose, Mizuho, and Nisshin into light carriers roughly equivalent to the Zuiho class. Any conversions will take about a year IIRC. What's better, 3 Zuihos or 3 seaplane carriers? Maybe a mix?
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Jan 2, 2018 18:16
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Assuming Grey doesn't end with the same situation IJN did: they had flattops but no pilots.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:51
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I'm still working my way through the archives, but if I'm not mistaken the USS Bunker Hill is still unclaimed (and alive). As a proud Bay Stater I'd like to claim it as my lucky ship. I can tell my AA gunners hold their fire until they see the whites of Japanese pilots eyes. If it's been taken and the spreadsheet is wrong, my mistake, and I'll read about it in a few weeks because I'm still working my way through the archive!
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Jan 2, 2018 21:19
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habeasdorkus posted:I'm still working my way through the archives, but if I'm not mistaken the USS Bunker Hill is still unclaimed (and alive). As a proud Bay Stater I'd like to claim it as my lucky ship. I can tell my AA gunners hold their fire until they see the whites of Japanese pilots eyes. If it's been taken and the spreadsheet is wrong, my mistake, and I'll read about it in a few weeks because I'm still working my way through the archive! Turns out the AA cannon are actually on USS Breed's Hill....
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Jan 2, 2018 21:51
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RA Rx posted:What's better, 3 Zuihos or 3 seaplane carriers? Maybe a mix? Japan gets other Seaplane tenders, and seaplanes are rather pitiful at everything except Naval search/ASW because they have essentially no bomb load. The light flattops can put out about 120 planes if you convert all 4 of them, although you're limited to older planes that will get slaughtered by post-43 CAP. Strictly speaking, they're more useful when converted. The real question is if your industry/fleet can support the ships taking a year out of the action. If you lose your heavy cruisers (esp. Tone and Chikuma), you'll have no way to scout for your carriers without compromising the strength of your carrier air groups. The Ise-class battlecarrier conversions, on the other hand, are a pretty bad idea. Their air groups are tiny and you're better off using them as surface raiders in poorly defended areas (Around the Cape Town - Perth convoy routes, for example) than taking them out of action for a few months for aircraft that will be torn apart by Hellcats.
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Jan 2, 2018 23:28
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What about using the battlecruisers for patrol and putting the cvls on CAP only? Could you fit decent fighters on them into 43?
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Jan 3, 2018 00:16
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OddObserver posted:Turns out the AA cannon are actually on USS Breed's Hill.... Where is William Dawes ship, loving Revere...
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Jan 3, 2018 05:34
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I don't think Grey even has the fighter numbers to fill out a bunch of carriers right now. Seems like he loses entire air wings whenever he makes an attack on anything heavier than destroyers too. It's really quite intimidating to watch. The AI has a screwed up amphibious assault logic that feeds troop-laden cargo ships into Grey's maw 90% of the time, but the only thing keeping Japan in the game is that busted AI routine. Grey's completely spent right now, ships-wise, but the Americans just starved a whole Marines division on Jaluit. At the same time, Grey is still losing out on every other exchange besides China.
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Jan 3, 2018 05:35
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  I hate night bombers.  This is more like it!  That's nice as well!  That's a very nice HQ to kill. That'll make their jobs just that bit harder in the future.  Some heavier than usual plane losses, but we are now back in control of all of Jaluit. New invasion in 3...2....  I'
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Jan 3, 2018 06:10
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  Navigation school needs to teach the Allied captains about sailing too close to Fortress Rabaul.  This is the first lucky hit we've seen in a long time. I remember when level bombers were responsible for 75-90% of all my lost ships.  I'm just going to tell myself these were all tanks.  I think these are carrier based.  Yeah, these are our normal ineffective land based friends.  Dammit!  We did some nice damage today. The AI will keep gifting me task forces like that.  We admit losing a carrier, and confirm another of their sunk. Its not a even trade, but I'll take what I can get at this stage.  This, however is a worry.
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Jan 4, 2018 05:45
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3 January 1944 Destroyer USS Turner sinks following explosions in the magazines while at anchor near New York. A number of her injured crewmen were saved by blood plasma flown in by a Coast Guard Sikorsky HNS-1 in the first medical mercy mission by a helicopter.
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Jan 4, 2018 06:12
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Grey Hunter posted:
The Elder Gods will not take this slight lightly and will bestow untold horrors on those responsible.
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Jan 4, 2018 08:24
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It dawned on me this morning while reading Grey's latest update that we've still got another two full years to go before this LP ends. The sheer scale is still daunting.
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Jan 4, 2018 08:27
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gradenko_2000 posted:It dawned on me this morning while reading Grey's latest update that we've still got another two full years to go before this LP ends. The sheer scale is still daunting. Respect Nimitz. His job seems really cool, until you realize he had to do it for four-plus years and had that nerve-wracking first year of carrier raids and the Solomons campaign. By the time he's reading reports of Kenney pounding Rabaul flat he's had about a year and a half of shoestring fighting.
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Jan 4, 2018 08:43
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mllaneza posted:Respect Nimitz. His job seems really cool, until you realize he had to do it for four-plus years and had that nerve-wracking first year of carrier raids and the Solomons campaign. By the time he's reading reports of Kenney pounding Rabaul flat he's had about a year and a half of shoestring fighting. Reading between the lines it appears that '42 cracked Fletcher pretty hard. Coral Sea, Midway and Eastern Solomon Islands (sinking 6 Japanese carriers) and then off to an out of the way command.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:01
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I can imagine how much the politics in America swung after the Battle of Jaluit and then the Raid on Singapore. Until that point the Americans had suffered a strategic defeat at Milne Bay where they lost almost all of their operational carriers, lost a good number of battleships and cruisers in other encounters, and failed to make a dent in Japan's capital ship fleet outside of the Akagi and the light carrier at Milne. They'd stabilized the invasion front, but failed to make much ground island hopping. Then they plaster the Kiddo Butai without losing a single carrier of their own, and all of a sudden the undefeatable Japanese Navy is cored. And THEN they sneak a task force right to the gates of Singapore, deep within what was thought to be Japanese controlled waters. After almost two years of getting bollocked both on land and at sea in the Pacific, they've just won the equivalent of Lepanto. Of course, the news leaking out about how the Marines got stranded right after on Jaluit is gonna take some shine off that.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:04
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habeasdorkus posted:Then they plaster the Kiddo Butai without losing a single carrier of their own, and all of a sudden the undefeatable Japanese Navy is cored. And THEN they sneak a task force right to the gates of Singapore, deep within what was thought to be Japanese controlled waters. After almost two years of getting bollocked both on land and at sea in the Pacific, they've just won the equivalent of Lepanto. I would think Singapore gets talked about in this timeline like the Doolittle Raid was in our timeline. I wonder if the loss at Jaluit is even allowed in the press. American performance in the Pacific in this timeline probably gets a decidedly mixed review from history, something like "American industrial and technical supremacy covered several major flaws in strategic and operational thought".
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Jan 4, 2018 17:08
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Eh, Singapore is probably a mixed bag. I can't imagine that the public would react favorably to "And we would have captured it too, if not for those two plucky little patrol boats!"
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Jan 4, 2018 18:17
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Those boats are the Taffy 2 of the battle.
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Jan 4, 2018 19:52
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