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Like his defense is literally "I didn't REALLY accuse him of domestic violence, I was just lying so other people could secretly tell me bad things he did!" That's his defense. That's what he thinks makes him look good.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:51
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Any attempt at a modern challenge to D&D is going to be hampered by the fact that freeform roleplaying still exists and is plenty popular, and has in fact served as the primary alternative to tabletop games in general for a long-rear end time now. You bring up Fallen London, but consider: they already have a roleplaying game. The forums. Social media. Places where they just...vaguely pretend to be their characters and socialize. And I mean, that IS enough for a lot of people. Hell, the game already has seasonal events that happen for them to react to! To be frank, I think looking at D&D as a gateway game is the entirely wrong approach, because honestly isn't. D&D may as well be it's own separate hobby for how often it intersects with games that aren't D&D.
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Jan 4, 2018 23:58
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ProfessorCirno posted:Like his defense is literally "I didn't REALLY accuse him of domestic violence, I was just lying so other people could secretly tell me bad things he did!" Yep. "I didn't say he beats his wife. I was just asking questions." My wife comes into the thread and demands he apologizes for implying that I beat her. He blocks her. He's literally using her and our children as a weapon to attack me, and won't even stand up to the person he's inferring I hurt. Then a guy who has literally groped our friends and loved ones at cons comes into the thread to defend him. Even in the BEST case scenario for him here, where, you know, I beat my wife, he apparently knew this for some time and instead of using that information to help the victim, he held on to it until it was convenient to defend himself from internet criticisms. And, like, um, the twelve women or whatever who have spoken out about CAS were all lying and somehow Mark has credible reason to believe this. And someone clearly hacked CAS's Facebook to post the public apology for things he obviously didn't do. These loving people.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:24
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ProfessorCirno posted:Any attempt at a modern challenge to D&D is going to be hampered by the fact that freeform roleplaying still exists and is plenty popular, and has in fact served as the primary alternative to tabletop games in general for a long-rear end time now. You bring up Fallen London, but consider: they already have a roleplaying game. The forums. Social media. Places where they just...vaguely pretend to be their characters and socialize. And I mean, that IS enough for a lot of people. Hell, the game already has seasonal events that happen for them to react to!  Hmm okay yes roll a d20 to vomit cornflakes.
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Jan 5, 2018 00:31
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you don't need to make a Vomit Cornflakes check if you cast Kellogg's Macerated Cornflakration instead
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Jan 5, 2018 00:36
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Someone tell me a horror story about Call of Cthulhu or Delta Green devs (Not that kind) so I can finally make the jump to burning/selling all my books, please.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:08
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theironjef posted:
Snape is secretly the Cornflakes Hormunculus?
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Jan 5, 2018 01:21
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theironjef posted:
Well I'm a Proficient cerealmancer, but she's not into it so that's Disadvantage. Can I spend an Inspiration for Advantage because I'm drowning Mister Potter to death in breakfast?
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Jan 5, 2018 01:22
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ProfessorCirno posted:Any attempt at a modern challenge to D&D is going to be hampered by the fact that freeform roleplaying still exists and is plenty popular, and has in fact served as the primary alternative to tabletop games in general for a long-rear end time now. You bring up Fallen London, but consider: they already have a roleplaying game. The forums. Social media. Places where they just...vaguely pretend to be their characters and socialize. And I mean, that IS enough for a lot of people. Hell, the game already has seasonal events that happen for them to react to! I think "vaguely pretend" is being too dismissive--I mean I haven't visited the Fallen London forums but I have participated in a lot of online freeform games, including forum/journal stuff as well as a lot of MUSH/MUCK type environments. In terms of actual "roleplaying" where you project a chosen character and create an emergent fiction based on the collective projection of the group? I've very rarely had tabletop come anywhere close. Interaction with the rules is far more prevalent than interaction with the characters' emotional states and goals in TT and that isn't even such a bad thing. It is kind of embarrassing to pretend to be an elf in front of your friends. It's why I keep searching through crunch-lite/narrative heavy systems to try and get something that encourages and smooths the feel of the fiction without turning the focus towards steadily upgrading numbers. The other thing with the freeform crowd is the word "free": they don't have to buy any books, or snacks, or drive anywhere, and a decent number of the people heavily involved in those hobbies can't afford a lot of other ones for one reason or another, whereas an internet connection gets you all the RP you want plus the rest of the internet besides. Any modern attempt to lure that crowd into a formal RPG would need to be cheap as hell, either through an affordable really wide release with a huge property (Twilight or Harry Potter or something) or a bare-bones mini RPG that costs very little. But I also agree that trying to lure people away from D&D is often just a non-starter. Vampire succeeded in part because it drew an entirely different crowd into roleplaying at a time when there weren't so many other competing, similar options.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:28
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The whole "rules that make you feel like the character" thing is why I really liked Exalted 2e's Infernals. The system as a whole was crap, but that particular subsystem included a lot of things that pushed you using mechanics to act in theme as a weird villain (or antihero), like "you never have to roll Compassion for hurting mortals" or "you get natural armor based on how many specific people you deeply hate" or "you never have to sleep, but if you try to sleep (to regain Willpower), you have to roll or suffer terrible nightmares".occamsnailfile posted:Any modern attempt to lure that crowd into a formal RPG would need to be cheap as hell, either through an affordable really wide release with a huge property (Twilight or Harry Potter or something) or a bare-bones mini RPG that costs very little. 
Roadie fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 01:44
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occamsnailfile posted:I think "vaguely pretend" is being too dismissive--I mean I haven't visited the Fallen London forums but I have participated in a lot of online freeform games, including forum/journal stuff as well as a lot of MUSH/MUCK type environments. In terms of actual "roleplaying" where you project a chosen character and create an emergent fiction based on the collective projection of the group? I've very rarely had tabletop come anywhere close. Interaction with the rules is far more prevalent than interaction with the characters' emotional states and goals in TT and that isn't even such a bad thing. It is kind of embarrassing to pretend to be an elf in front of your friends. It's why I keep searching through crunch-lite/narrative heavy systems to try and get something that encourages and smooths the feel of the fiction without turning the focus towards steadily upgrading numbers. My apologies - it does sound dismissive, and that wasn't my intention. Far from it! I think freeform is loving great, and probably annoy people here with my recent kick of claiming tabletop groups inevitably become "freeform with a character sheet" hahaha.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:46
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ProfessorCirno posted:My apologies - it does sound dismissive, and that wasn't my intention. Far from it! I think freeform is loving great, and probably annoy people here with my recent kick of claiming tabletop groups inevitably become "freeform with a character sheet" hahaha. Freeform is badass but no one here has the balls to run one
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Jan 5, 2018 01:47
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Plutonis posted:Freeform is badass but no one here has the balls to run one The real question is, will it be set in a spooky summer camp where nobody can leave for poorly articulated reasons and feature a bunch of mutually thematically incoherent crossover fanfiction characters who end up in awkwardly forced romantic pairings?
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Jan 5, 2018 01:51
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Roadie posted:The real question is, will it be set in a spooky summer camp where nobody can leave for poorly articulated reasons and feature a bunch of mutually thematically incoherent crossover fanfiction characters who end up in awkwardly forced romantic pairings? excuse me please stop posting in the middle of my harriet/snape cornflakefuckfic thread
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Jan 5, 2018 01:53
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ProfessorCirno posted:My apologies - it does sound dismissive, and that wasn't my intention. Far from it! I think freeform is loving great, and probably annoy people here with my recent kick of claiming tabletop groups inevitably become "freeform with a character sheet" hahaha. A character sheet can bring a lot to the freeform experience, honestly. It breaks the ice, provokes the imagination, and helps align the participants' expectations.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:55
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ProfessorCirno posted:My apologies - it does sound dismissive, and that wasn't my intention. Far from it! I think freeform is loving great, and probably annoy people here with my recent kick of claiming tabletop groups inevitably become "freeform with a character sheet" hahaha. No worries mate. I've had that 'freeform with character sheets' thing happen and it's usually been a delight--it always just occurred organically among people who had matched their wavelength about what kind of game they wanted.
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Jan 5, 2018 01:58
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Bongo Bill posted:A character sheet can bring a lot to the freeform experience, honestly. It breaks the ice, provokes the imagination, and helps align the participants' expectations. Sure, but that character sheet would be much better to look something like this: 
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Jan 5, 2018 02:00
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Those meters in the upper right are like the least informative thing ever, most of them are just in the middle and only one of them is far enough to a side to imply any sort of interesting morals (from a gameplay perspective).
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Jan 5, 2018 02:06
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Tabletop RPGs differ from freeform RP less because of the rules and character sheets, and more because of the GM. Most online RP things I've seen are like, "here is a tavern, your OC (DO NOT STEAL) is here and you talk to other people" and conflicts emerge between specific characters. There is nothing wrong with that! That's great if you can work into that mindset. But I think getting people to do that regularly if they're not used to it is hard, especially in person. Having the framework of a story, an active and reactive setting in the form of the GM, and a set of rules and solid character elements on a sheet in front of you can really help people get into the roleplaying. I also think asking people to think up a character without any sort of framework to pin it to might cause some serious choice paralysis if they're not predisposed to do that sort of thing anyway. That's why character classes are such a great tool, instead of having to come up with a character whole cloth, you pick one of these 8 archetypes and pin your ideas to that.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:08
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Countblanc posted:Those meters in the upper right are like the least informative thing ever, most of them are just in the middle and only one of them is far enough to a side to imply any sort of interesting morals (from a gameplay perspective). Chaotic Neutral: sliders edition.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:08
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Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:Having the framework of a story, an active and reactive setting in the form of the GM, and a set of rules and solid character elements on a sheet in front of you can really help people get into the roleplaying. I also think asking people to think up a character without any sort of framework to pin it to might cause some serious choice paralysis if they're not predisposed to do that sort of thing anyway. That's why character classes are such a great tool, instead of having to come up with a character whole cloth, you pick one of these 8 archetypes and pin your ideas to that. A lot of freeform RPing is tied to a fandom or six, so people just naturally inject whatever self-insert idea they had into those easily enough. More organized freeform groups might have a GM-like role or even use a simple house-rule dice system to resolve some conflicts.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:29
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I mean yeah, you can do archetype-suggestions without being as limiting as formal classes often end up. Conan, for instance, was the topic of many, many, incredibly dumb arguments about what class he should have been. Even the official "barbarian" class didn't fit, since Conan was not just literate, he was literate even in some ancient languages; he could climb and pick locks like a rogue; he was also a stone-cold badass. You can say 'pare some of that back a little bit since we all need to shine here' but that doesn't require heading down to full attack town.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:33
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In my experience most for real freeform eventually devolves into childish arguments about "I hit you!" "no you didn't!", god-modding, favorites playing, and basically toxic group behaviors. And most forums for it devolve into having an elitist central clique setting the agenda. Not that TTRPG games don't have those same problems, but there's at least some kind of agreed upon framework to fall back on, and that bad behavior can be called out on the basis of.
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Jan 5, 2018 03:45
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Free Cog posted:If I recall correctly, that was the basis of Storyscape, Slabtown Games's tablet RPG app. It even had Robin Laws writing the mechanics, and I remember him talking about it on his podcast, especially how the most interesting part of developing it was that its mechanics could be virtually invisible to players, allowing for more complex mechanics than a regular RPG. Late to the party, but there have been several fan-made RPGs that were made with the intention of playing them using an IRC bot - the Final Fantasy RPG is the one that comes to mind first, but there's also a Fire Emblem one, and a pretty awful Phantasy Star Online one. The problem, of course, was that everything that happened before the bot was fully set up for your characters was an absolute loving nightmare.
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Jan 5, 2018 04:37
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For "Challangers to D&D" I might have brought it up, but I can't sing the praises enough of 13th Age. I love the system. It has the crunch of D&D, but streamlined and has a lot of great new mechanics: * Escalation which speeds up combat (it progressively adds more to players' attacks and can unlock abilities, sometimes even for monsters) * The icon system which lets you tie in faction affiliations for interesting things possibly happening each session * A background based skill system (instead of clunky list of skills you get a few backgrounds you can use for any skill, as long as you can justify it working with what you want to do) I've GMed a campaign for a long time set in the Fantasy Flight "spellslinger" setting (with some fellow SA goons), and that was a blast, and I'm currently doing one in a world based on Nausicaa valley of the wind in RL I also really love freeform RPing. I've done some on various forums like Nanowrimo, Nationstates and over Dischord that have turned out pretty well. Plutonis posted:Freeform is badass but no one here has the balls to run one I tried to run some here, but they never got off the ground (couldn't get interest). I'm always up to do some freeform RPing. If people are interested, PM me.
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Jan 5, 2018 08:51
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Bongo Bill posted:A character sheet can bring a lot to the freeform experience, honestly. It breaks the ice, provokes the imagination, and helps align the participants' expectations. This is honestly a super-important thing for freeform RP. Getting everyone involved to agree on some basic characteristics of the setting, and what is and isn't appropriate in terms of character power level. It avoids the frustration of having someone just offhandedly resolve characters' plot points via hand wave.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:30
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Most freeform RPs I've been in have a basic "this is what the setting is like and here's what sort of characters there are" doc and a character sheet template to make sure you have the important stuff about your character written down.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:37
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Liquid Communism posted:This is honestly a super-important thing for freeform RP. Getting everyone involved to agree on some basic characteristics of the setting, and what is and isn't appropriate in terms of character power level. It avoids the frustration of having someone just offhandedly resolve characters' plot points via hand wave. I've heard it said that FATE/FAE tends to work better with experienced role-players and/or extant friends rather than beginners/strangers, since the former are more likely to play within the established framework of a game whose limits are only very loosely defined by the rules. That is to say, part of the raison d'etre of a more rules-intensive game is to "rein in" people who might otherwise run away with it. This whole analogy is in keeping with the idea that RPGs are really just games of cops-and-robbers, except we have a book to tell us who shot first.
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Jan 5, 2018 09:37
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Yeah, again, not saying "freeform with a character sheet" is bad in any way. Also, another thing that tends to go ignored here is how much social media has changed and shaped how a lot of people interact with games. To go off my own previous mention: there are a lot of people who do their own weird RP tumblr accounts of their Fallen London character. I'm not even sure where that ranks - it's freeform, but it's also incredibly passive. What used to be just writing as fanfiction or even before that writing it to yourself, now you can make your weird Skyrim character or whatever a full drat social media account. And that's super rad! And it also means people don't need tabletop games to express themselves through roleplaying. And that's why I don't think there's going to be D&D challenger.
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Jan 5, 2018 12:51
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ProfessorCirno posted:What used to be just writing as fanfiction or even before that writing it to yourself, now you can make your weird Skyrim character or whatever a full drat social media account. Those folks that run the twitter accounts of West Wing (and The Newsroom) characters aren't just role-playing, they're role-playing with each other. drat
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Jan 5, 2018 12:56
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ProfessorCirno posted:Yeah, again, not saying "freeform with a character sheet" is bad in any way. The fun part is I've seen RP tumblr blogs for characters in The Adventure Zone and Critical Role not run by the players of those games, which is some snake eating its own tail poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2018 13:26
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ProfessorCirno posted:Yeah, again, not saying "freeform with a character sheet" is bad in any way. Honestly, the more I think on it, the more I think D&D is a gateway into tabletop wargames than RPGs. It's got a lot more in common, for me, to my 40k games than it does to say, Apocalypse World or even Shadowrun.
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Jan 5, 2018 13:32
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There's a lot of the same DNA, so really I'd say that depends on if your group plays DnD for the combat or the story.
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Jan 5, 2018 13:58
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Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, the more I think on it, the more I think D&D is a gateway into tabletop wargames than RPGs. It's got a lot more in common, for me, to my 40k games than it does to say, Apocalypse World or even Shadowrun. It certainly wasn't uncommon at the game store I worked at for the kids who came to game to have their attention to drawn the people pushing brightly colored miniatures around and ask what's all the hubbub with these orks and armored men and those weird Alien rip-offs. Very rarely did they come up and ask, "Hey, I loved D&D - do you have something that tries to cross its tropes with, say, cyberpunk?"
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Jan 5, 2018 13:59
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It's a little discordant, honestly, because D&D 5e gets praised a lot for "supporting" Theater-of-the-Mind combat, and yet a lot of people love the physicality of the hobby anyway to the point where it starts with personalized minis and ends with multi-floor cardboard or molded-plastic dungeon models. It's like you want to not-need a grid and minis so that you can accommodate people who can't afford it or aren't artful enough for it, but you actually do want people to explore that space of the hobby if they can because it's a big part of the "playing while not playing" aspect that keeps people invested so much.
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Jan 5, 2018 14:39
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inklesspen posted:Sure, but that character sheet would be much better to look something like this: This Bosmer eating vegetables and fruit angers me. How dare this heretic break the Green Pact
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Jan 5, 2018 14:55
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It's very likely just more holdover backlash against 4e. Theater of the Mind D&D wasn't a cornerstone thing in practice, I'd never even seen a table without a grid map, but as soon as 4e doubled down on it all the grogs came out to to praise how immersive and intuitive and verisimilitudeity TotM was compared to *scoff* a board game.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:02
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My black box basic D&D set game with a gridded map and cardboard cutouts of the heroes and monsters. It's always been a boardgame
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Jan 5, 2018 15:06
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4e was a Benghazi or HER EMAILS for a lot of nerds. They didn't understand it, but they were told it was awful and it somehow proved some undefined tummyfeel was right all along.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:14
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Don't compare 4E to a War Criminal.
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Jan 5, 2018 15:30
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