bewbies posted:

did the Germans have a blanket "no surrender" policy in place during WWII, and if so, can someone source it for me?

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

go wild my friend: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/surgeonsatsea/

even the English who were putatively Good At Boats were still trying to draw a distinction between "guys who drive the boat" and "guys who do the fighting" in the early 1500s.

bewbies posted:

did the Germans have a blanket "no surrender" policy in place during WWII, and if so, can someone source it for me?

bewbies posted:

are there any good examples of official "no surrender" policies for modern militaries outside of imperial Japan?

also: is there any reason to believe that hitler's "nero policy" was intended to be punitive in nature?

also also: are there any other good examples of autocrats ordering the destruction of their lands while in the death throes of their regimes?

bewbies posted:

are there any good examples of official "no surrender" policies for modern militaries outside of imperial Japan?

quote:

ARTICLE I:
I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

ARTICLE II:
I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

ARTICLE III:
If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

ARTICLE IV:
If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them in every way.

ARTICLE V:
When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country or its allies or harmful to their cause.

ARTICLE VI:
I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

bewbies posted:

are there any good examples of official "no surrender" policies for modern militaries outside of imperial Japan?

also: is there any reason to believe that hitler's "nero policy" was intended to be punitive in nature?

also also: are there any other good examples of autocrats ordering the destruction of their lands while in the death throes of their regimes?

13th KRRC War Diary, 5th Jan 1918 posted:

The Battalion moved into the Front Line, returning to the same sector, opposite ZANVOORDE, and relieved the 10th. Bn. Loyal North Lancs. The Battalion front is from J.32.a.6.2 to P.1.a.9.3. The line is held by three groups of posts which are divided equally among all Companies, the raiding party (the Desperadoes) being in Reserve at HILL 60. By this arrangement men in the outposts can be relieved every 24 hours, which, owing to weather, is essential to prevent Trench Feet.

2/Lieut R. CARR was wounded by shell in communication trench. Disposition of Companies as follows:- Left group, held jointly between B & DCoys, remainder of the Companies being established in dugouts opposite Battalion Head Quarters in the ravine, map reference, I.36.c.9.5. Both Company Head Quarters being at the CLUSTERS, and Head Quarters in the line being at TOP HOUSE. Centre group held jointly between A, B, & D Coys, each Company having men in the posts comprising group, Head Quarters being in WOOD FARM. Right Group. Held alone by A Coy, Coy. H.Q. being at CHATEAU dugouts. C Coy. is established in concrete Pill Boxes in the ravine at IMPERFECT COPSE with the exception of 17 other ranks who are provided with shelters in the reserve line of OAF TRENCH.

General. The Battalion Aid Post is at IMPERIAL Dugouts. Cooking for the men in the line is done as before in IMPERIAL Dugouts while the other men's food is cooked at Cook Houses at Battalion H.Q. and CHATEAU Dugouts. The Battalion S.A.A. and Bomb Store is at IMPERIAL Dugouts. Owing to the excellence of the light railway and the good state of weather, the duck board not being very slippery, and the lowness of visibility, relief complete was given and the relieved Battalion in its homeward journey by 7-45 p.m. 5/1/18.

The Lone Badger posted:

Galaxy brain: cavalry combat, on a boat.

Clarence posted:

gradenko_2000 posted:

What's the most modern example of a boarding action between two warships?

gradenko_2000 posted:

What's the most modern example of a boarding action between two warships?

gradenko_2000 posted:

What's the most modern example of a boarding action between two warships?

Hunt11 posted:

In regards to knocking out the Spanish Empire, I believe there is at least some credence to that idea as the cost do make the Armada was massive, and with it gone the New World was now a lot more open to the other European powers. Also with the Spanish empire being kept afloat by the sheer amount of gold they were being able to extract from the Americas meant that with their shipping lanes being more vulnerable then ever, the Spanish Empire was going to suffer for at least the short term.

gradenko_2000 posted:

What's the most modern example of a boarding action between two warships?

chitoryu12 posted:

I can't remember the name of either ship involved, but in WW2 there was an instance of a German U-Boat surfacing and promptly crashing into an American ship (maybe a destroyer?). With the two ships locked together and the American guns unable to depress far enough to shoot it off, both sides' crewmen ended up engaging in a firefight across both vessels using small arms and whatever mounted weapons they could aim at each other.

At one point in the battle a German sailor was spotted running for the deck gun, and an American without any other options chucked a 5-inch shell casing at him and knocked him overboard.

chitoryu12 posted:

I can't remember the name of either ship involved, but in WW2 there was an instance of a German U-Boat surfacing and promptly crashing into an American ship (maybe a destroyer?).

Cyrano4747 posted:

No, they didn't. Hitler had some pretty asinine "no retreat" orders that led to some pretty god awful defeats for them, and there was certainly a reluctance to surrender on the part of many units in the east based largely on the brutality of that fight and the propaganda they'd been fed about what the Soviets did to prisoners, but there wasn't any kind of no surrender general order.

There are bunches of times when the Wehrmacht did totally normal, orderly surrenders in appropriate circumstances. The final order to lay down arms is the most obvious one, but as early as 1943 you have the mass surrender of the troops left behind in N. Africa.

Cyrano4747 posted:

there was certainly a reluctance to surrender on the part of many units in the east based largely on the brutality of that fight and the propaganda they'd been fed about what the Soviets did to prisoners

HEY GUNS posted:

This isn't true; the Atlantic fleet was something different from the Armada and if I recall correctly the annual gold shipment was lost only once in history--a hurricane.

HEY GUNS posted:

english language sources are full of a lot of bullshit about the armada, as though that was a decisive knock to the biggest empire in the world

Cyrano4747 posted:

1) Not that I'm aware of. You'd probably have to be dealing with total fanatics. Maybe ISIS or the like? Also, "victory or death" tends to not have the best effects on troop morale. poo poo, even the suicide kits given to people on super sensitive missions were voluntary in nature. Gary Powers was a CIA pilot and decided to sit out Soviet captivity rather than use his. MAAAYBE some kind of unofficial policy in some really tight knit, highly trained, super highly motivated unit that was fighting against an enemy they considered barbaric or less than human. I wouldn't be overly surprised to hear there was a suicide pact among some specific SEAL team's members when working away from support in Afghanistan, for example. Anecdotally I've heard of more than a few individuals keeping an extra couple of rounds in their pocket to take Kipling's way out if they were cut off and in danger of being captured by the Taliban.

2) Nope. Hitler has a one off comment right before he died about how the Germans ultimately weren't worthy of him, but the Nero order seems to have been just bog standard scorched earth tactics. The idea was to make Germany as worthless as possible for the enemy.

3) I'm sure one must exist somewhere in the annals of history, but I'm not really thinking of any. I mean, you have scorched earth as a tactic to deny the enemy the resources they might otherwise plunder from your lands, but the idea there is always that this will help you wait them out. Saddam was more than happy to torch the Kuwaiti wells as a final gently caress you while his army pulled out, but that wasn't him breaking Iraqi poo poo.

These questions seem oddly specific. What's the interest?

Cessna posted:

Also, U-505 was boarded and captured, and is sitting in Chicago as a result.

HEY GUNS posted:

This isn't true; the Atlantic fleet was something different from the Armada and if I recall correctly the annual gold shipment was lost only once in history--a hurricane.

Comrade Gorbash posted:

The USS Borie vs the U-405. There's a decent write up on the Borie's Wiki page.

Night10194 posted:

Didn't so many soviet soldiers die in German captivity that it was a really significant source of their total combat deaths?

bewbies posted:

excellent answers all,

I'm doing an analysis of what *might* happen in the event of a proper shooting war on the korean peninsula and I suppose i've taken the stance that it is much more likely to turn into a mass surrender/humanitarian crisis rather than a "burning every last nork out of a spider hole" kind of scenario.

Eela6 posted:

I got to see this a couple months ago. It's amazing. Highly recommended!

Cyrano4747 posted:

Tons of Germans successfully surrendered to the Soviets. They weren’t treated well in captivity but it wasn’t the death sentence Nazi propaganda would have you believe.

Hunt11 posted:

Creating the Armada was a drain on Spanish resources that was made even worse with the fact that almost all the money sunk into the Armada was quite literally sunk.

Cessna posted:

What percentage of Germans captured in Stalingrad made it back to Germany?


Edit to add: Look, gently caress Nazis. But Soviet captivity was often lethal.

Gort posted:

If anyone has any knowledge about it, an effortpost on when it was considered OK to surrender in militaries throughout history would be really cool.

Gnoman posted:

Amusingly, Elizabeth sent her own Armada against Spain in an attempt to exploit the loss of the Spanish Armada. Nobody talks about that embarrassment very much.

Saint Celestine posted:

91,000 were captured, 5,000 survived. 5%