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Khizan posted:gently caress controllers. They're boring and their main effect on the game is trivializing fights that would otherwise be interesting and challenging by spraying AOE status effects everywhere. There's nothing I find more irritating in 4e than watching a potentially interesting fight get ruined by a controller daily.  For some people, getting to make a tough encounter much easier by enabling everyone else with an AoE daze is how they have fun. Or they like the power rush of obliterating like 4 things in one turn by spraying lightning everywhere and popping a ton of minions.
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Dec 29, 2017 18:25
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In a four-man group, you need a leader and defender, and can fill out the rest with strikers. You do not need a controller in 4E. Khizan is also right, "optimal" controllers are really anti-fun beyond the first time they comically obviate an encounter. Otherwise controllers tend to be about bursting down minions. Problem is that, because: - Controllers don't really have a signature mechanic - Minion popping isn't much of a job - Debuffs are typically the y-axis design space against the x-axis of doing damage... ...Almost every class can dip liberally into controller; every defender, anyone who can do nasty status effects, anyone with strong AOE options. That's... Pretty much everybody, at the end of the day. There was an intent to make the controller the master of out-of-combat utility tricks in order to build out their niche, but the rest of the game's focus on action-oriented dungeon crawling, and rituals/martial practices taking up valuable finite resources (gold and in some cases healing surges), often in exchange for fairly lame abilities, meant that this aspect plays little or no role in many games--almost none of mine when I was still playing. The "core" controller, Wizard, was also a misfire that ended up tainted by regressive design. There's a totally unnecessary spellbook mechanic and tons of poorly implemented options (because of course we need to over-support the wizard! :mearls:). Most of the PHB1 and 2 classes are real strong with lots of cool options. Most wizards don't get a lot of mileage doing anything but psychic powers, making them a reskinned psion, and have tons of outright bad powers. If you wanted to be a cool wizard in 4E, you played a sorcerer, swordmage, or warlock. E: Check out all the red and purple-rated wizard powers: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471408-Archmage-s-Ascension-The-4E-Wizard-s-Handbook-(RuinsFate) Name Change fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 21:12
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Controllers are a good idea but leaders co-opt a lot of what should be their gimmick. The distinction between buffs on allies and debuffs on enemies isn't always that clear.
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Dec 29, 2017 22:20
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The wizard needed a super special sparkly archetype of its own, and if they just had DPS, Tank, and Healer you'd get even more frothing at the mouth about the WoW holy trinity
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Dec 29, 2017 22:23
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Sorcerer does minion popping better than a wizard does. Celestial sorcerer even lets you imagine that you're ripping stars out of the sky and hurling them at people through sheer muscle wizardry. It's really a pity that the celestial soul mechanic is the fiddliest most annoying poo poo ever.
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Dec 29, 2017 22:55
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Firos posted:Hello all. I have read a lot of this thread (~150 pages), but I have only recently managed to get enough people together to play our collective first game of D&D. I will be DMing, and I've managed to get most of my players (4 out of 6 PCs) to create characters using the offline character builder. I've got dice and a big gently caress off grid mat, and I now need to sort out the actual content that we'll be playing through, so I've decided on the Slaying Stone. What a coincidence, I'm also about to DM for the first time, also using The Slaying Stone. I've been homemaking my tokens from the instructions here: https://newbiedm.com/2008/11/22/newbiedm-tutorial-counters-tokens-or-pogs/ I've got some homebrew content that I'm going to insert as well since I feel like adding some more non-combat meat: -Gonna push the party to incite the Kobolds to rise up against the goblins. I'm adding a Kobold chieftain character and a side quest that is required to persuade him. -The sidequest is to break into a sealed armory built by the same folks who created the slaying stones, since the Kobolds want more weapons before they'll make a move. There'll be some sort of puzzle/skill challenge to open the door. The "weapon" inside turns out to be an old warforged from the city's forces. So now the party has a robot buddy who will help the uprising. -Kiris Hoyt wants to use the stone to reclaim the city for his people rather than see it destroyed and will implore the party not to return it to Treona. Maybe he'll even steal it and try to run off, who knows. -Gonna have the party find some mysterious coins that were paid to the orc mercenaries. Not sure where I'll take that yet, but some outside group wants the stone.
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Dec 31, 2017 01:26
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The wizard's spellbook feature is great.
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Dec 31, 2017 01:45
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I never really used the wizard's spellbook feature. I'd have my choice from 2 daily abilities per daily attack slot, and would promptly forget half of them.
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Dec 31, 2017 08:08
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It’s easy to write off by default but if you like it there are lots of feats and items and paths that let you hotswap or cast illusory versions of spells in your book. My long-running wizard went hard on that stuff and it’s really fun having a huge, varied bag of tricks that I can rifle through for weird situations.
Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Dec 31, 2017 |
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Dec 31, 2017 10:35
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Spellbook is WAY better in home campaigns than in organised play, is all I'll say about it. In OP none of our wizards ever used it. In home campaigns, you can actually plan what you're likely to be doing on a given day, so that flexibility might be useful in particular around utility slots.
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Jan 1, 2018 11:26
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Is there a good repository of encounters out there? I'm starting a game and I would like a fallback option for when I lack prep time/feel lazy. Inspiration is always good, too.
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Jan 2, 2018 17:25
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It's not quite what you've asked for, but this is my favourite approach: Make your players draw a battle map, and while they're doing that, look up a few neat monsters. Add a trap or hazard that both sides can exploit. When the players are done drawing the map, make adjustments as necessary, place the baddies, and tell the players where their heroes can start. The secret to 4e encounters, especially at lower levels, is that anything more than 2 minutes of prep time is wasted effort.
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Jan 2, 2018 17:28
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Hey guys, my friends and I want to get some D&D4th in this year but unfortunatly we can't seem to find a way to access the old D&D INsider tools. Is there a quick easy fix to this or are we basically boned for trying to play a dead RPG?
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Jan 2, 2018 19:44
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You can access it from here but I'm not sure how well it works if you try to create an account or newly subscribe to Insider.
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Jan 2, 2018 19:50
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ChuckBTY posted:Hey guys, my friends and I want to get some D&D4th in this year but unfortunatly we can't seem to find a way to access the old D&D INsider tools. Is there a quick easy fix to this or are we basically boned for trying to play a dead RPG? The character builder is getting jankier and jankier as Silverlight gets older and older, and therefore less supported. You will probably have to access the link Caphi provided on Internet Explorer, and you may need to get a third-party PDF reader (such as Nitro) to print anything.
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Jan 2, 2018 19:58
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Caphi posted:You can access it from here but I'm not sure how well it works if you try to create an account or newly subscribe to Insider. I had my account deactivated because I changed cards, but tech support were able to get things working again. Outsourced labor turns out to be better than the guys Wizards normally have doing their online content.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:03
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dont even fink about it posted:The character builder is getting jankier and jankier as Silverlight gets older and older, and therefore less supported. You will probably have to access the link Caphi provided on Internet Explorer, and you may need to get a third-party PDF reader (such as Nitro) to print anything. Well, I use my subscription for the Compendium (including iplay4e lookups) and CBLoader for everything else. That's my bad, when I hear "Insider" I just think "Compendium" because everyone I know has used the loader for so long.
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Jan 2, 2018 20:05
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Feel free to PM me for the CBLoader and the offline Compendium. Both are up to date with all the stuff, all of the stuff(!) Also I am not at home but when I am I can link the site to get new subscriptions to DDI if anyone needs it for Adventure Tools and whatnot.
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Jan 3, 2018 02:38
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Spiteski posted:Feel free to PM me for the CBLoader and the offline Compendium. Both are up to date with all the stuff, all of the stuff(!) Speaking of, I'm messing with the offline builder right now. How do you access themes during character creation? I'm looking around but don't see the option for them anywhere.
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Jan 3, 2018 05:04
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If everything installed correctly they should be at the top of the Background tab as "Choose your Dark Sun Theme (optional)".
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Jan 3, 2018 05:09
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Whoop, there they are. How the hell did I overlook that? Thanks!
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Jan 3, 2018 05:13
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Here is the new DDI link. This will work with new subs and renewing lapsed subs.
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Jan 3, 2018 05:50
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lol. They still charge $10 a month for that.
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Jan 3, 2018 07:16
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Mordiceius posted:lol. They still charge $10 a month for that. And yet it it still, pretty much without question, the best online tool in the tabletop RPG market. God I hate the tabletop RPG market.
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Jan 3, 2018 16:26
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Spiteski posted:Here is the new DDI link. This will work with new subs and renewing lapsed subs. Perfect, this is just what I needed.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:10
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Finally getting my campaign off the ground in 2018. I'm looking at treasure rewards in the Rules Compendium right now and the rules say you should award around ten treasures per level, but the actual treasures themselves appear to be entirely randomly generated, which annoys me. I'm not gonna sit here and roll 40d20 and note down all the results. The DMG, otoh, has fixed treasure amounts per level. Are those two equivalent? Or is the newer Rules Compendium the "fixed" version? Essentially I want to know if can I just use the DMG tables and not gimp/overpower my players.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:28
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Ojetor posted:Finally getting my campaign off the ground in 2018. I'm looking at treasure rewards in the Rules Compendium right now and the rules say you should award around ten treasures per level, but the actual treasures themselves appear to be entirely randomly generated, which annoys me. I'm not gonna sit here and roll 40d20 and note down all the results. The DMG, otoh, has fixed treasure amounts per level. Are those two equivalent? Or is the newer Rules Compendium the "fixed" version? It's possible that the new compendium ones were a product of Mearls crapifying the game at the end of the cycle. I'd just use whatever works for you, and for me, the set rewards are easiest. Also, whether or not you use those tables make sure you also use the Inherent bonuses rules. Makes your job as a loot rewarder much easier when you don't need to worry about when to give them enough to get that extra +x weapon or armor, and can instead focus on giving cool gimmick items.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:32
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Do keep in mind you're supposed to drop some treasure parcels if you use inherent bonuses. I liked the random rolls for a campaign, but I used a spreadsheet. Also getting item wish lists out of my players was like pulling teeth.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:38
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Ojetor posted:Finally getting my campaign off the ground in 2018. I'm looking at treasure rewards in the Rules Compendium right now and the rules say you should award around ten treasures per level, but the actual treasures themselves appear to be entirely randomly generated, which annoys me. I'm not gonna sit here and roll 40d20 and note down all the results. The DMG, otoh, has fixed treasure amounts per level. Are those two equivalent? Or is the newer Rules Compendium the "fixed" version? They’re equivalent. Use the DMG tables (with the adjustments for inherent bonuses) if you’d like.
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Jan 3, 2018 23:15
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Spiteski posted:It's possible that the new compendium ones were a product of Mearls crapifying the game at the end of the cycle. This is correct. The Rules Compendium treasure tables use random rolls because that's how Essentials did it, and Essentials did it that way because random rolls for treasure is "traditional D&D". My Lovely Horse posted:Do keep in mind you're supposed to drop some treasure parcels if you use inherent bonuses. This is also correct. Inherent bonuses are always "late" as far as when they provide the bonuses that they do, so players are still expected to get their weapons and armor using cash and loot drops, just that inherent bonuses prevents them from falling completely behind if they decide to never upgrade their armor or whatever.
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Jan 3, 2018 23:23
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gradenko_2000 posted:This is also correct. Inherent bonuses are always "late" as far as when they provide the bonuses that they do, so players are still expected to get their weapons and armor using cash and loot drops, just that inherent bonuses prevents them from falling completely behind if they decide to never upgrade their armor or whatever.
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Jan 3, 2018 23:36
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I honestly prefer completely using boons to replace items. Cuts down a little on cheese and lets you tie the rewards very directly to the in-fiction events. Party spent a week traversing the Great Forest? Party ranger gets a +3 to Nature and Perception. Party saved a psionicist from being murderered? He teaches one or more of the characters a mental defensive technique that gives them some psychic damage resistance.
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Jan 4, 2018 00:22
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My favorite way of awarding treasure is just to give them gold equal to the treasure's value and let them buy their own poo poo. Ban things if needed.
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Jan 4, 2018 03:19
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I used inherent bonuses and then basically ignored treasure for an entire 1-30 campaign. They picked up some stuff here or there, but it was mostly items of interest which did fun, miscellaneous stuff. It worked great. 4e characters - as long as you use inherent bonuses - can keep up with enemies just fine. Boons, added abilities, etc. aren't necessary.
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Jan 4, 2018 17:34
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dwarf74 posted:I used inherent bonuses and then basically ignored treasure for an entire 1-30 campaign. As someone who very carefully picks out items for full builds 1-30, with sometimes the builds significantly relying on certain combinations of items Yeah if it's a hassle just use inherent bonuses and call it a day. If I'm doing that kind of planning I can survive without items. Gharbad the Weak fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 02:50
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Give your druids claw gloves.
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Jan 5, 2018 02:57
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Yeah, there are a few builds that kind of rely on having access to some items. It's probably best to let your players know if you're going to be running without reliable access to items if that's the plan so they can avoid those. But yeah, totally doable.
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Jan 5, 2018 03:36
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The Crotch posted:Give your druids claw gloves. God, 4e druids are so loving fun.
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Jan 5, 2018 13:01
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Now, I just want to play a Dragonborn Warlord who does Shouts by smoke signal. Also, what make the best warlords?
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Jan 5, 2018 18:26
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Depends on what you're aiming for. If you want a Strength/Intelligence warlord, Genasi are the only race in town that will boost both stats, while Dragonborn and Vyraloka are the Str/Cha races, and Minotaur and Goliath are the Str/Wis races, though the Wis build works equally well if not better with Intelligence instead. Past that there's the usual all-stars like half-elves and tieflings who have enough racial support to go with whatever. If you're going pure lazylord and neglecting strength entirely you can do some fun stuff with things like pixies, tieflings or khalashtar, and you can either stick entirely to strength-less warlord powers or do something like MC bard and take the Daring Blade paragon path if you want to be able to use stand-out powers like Hail of Steel.
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Jan 5, 2018 21:09
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