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Hav posted:There's a middle ground between what both sides want, which, if it went through a normal horse-trading, they'd probably be able to settle on. Skadden has invoked Jury trial, which means that they're dumbing this down so that jurors understand it, so I agree that they're going after all the marbles, I just think, given the 'reasonable man standard' that the injunction is a step too far in wanting to achieve a satisfactory outcome. I don't believe that CryTek wants the middle ground. They want what they are due and have no reason to accept anything less. I wouldn't. You wouldn't. You don't hire a firm like Skadden if all you were looking for was a settlement. You just don't. As for the Couttes collateral, that is why I said AFTER the case is finished. Because once that happens and the injunction is granted (because it is actually very fair in the eyes of the law) then all the jpegs, code, everything will then be deemed worthless. And I would be willing to bet there is something in the Couttes paperwork that has something there about that as well. Because depending on the date that Crytek started talking with CIG telling them "You can't do the SQ42 thing without a GLA" and CIG taking a loan out using SQ42 property they legally don't have a right to have as collateral, it could be considered fraud. Que the bobbies. E: Taxxe 
DapperDon fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 19:04
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Hav posted:Skadden has invoked Jury trial, which means that they're dumbing this down so that jurors understand it, so I agree that they're going after all the marbles, I just think, given the 'reasonable man standard' that the injunction is a step too far in wanting to achieve a satisfactory outcome. Question: Doesn't the defense get to ultimately decide if it is a jury or a bench trial?
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Jan 5, 2018 19:05
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Chalks posted:If we were to imagine that Crytek is a company with shareholders that are interested in profits rather than an angry person that wants to waste millions of dollars in order to feel righteous... It's privately owned. it's more an angry IP shop with Turkish government money.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:07
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G0RF posted:Is this is in reference to the Turkish $500M rumors, or something else? I’ve not doubted Crytek was in better standing than before but have been wondering if there has been any official confirmation anywhere about them securing additional funding, and if so, what the particulars were. The Turkish $500M always seemed a little far fetched to me. But for sure they got a nice payday from Amazon. Kotaku heard 50-70M. quote:Though I haven’t been able to pin down the exact dollar figure—one source said $50 million; another said 70—sources say it was substantial enough to help Crytek recover from the financial difficulties that kept them from paying some staff for months
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Jan 5, 2018 19:07
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Lladre posted:Question: Doesn't the defense get to ultimately decide if it is a jury or a bench trial? No. When you make the complaint, you get to choose how it is heard.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:08
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Hav posted:It's privately owned. it's more an angry IP shop with Turkish government money. Either way, spending millions just so they can scream "gently caress you chris roberts!!" across the court room is pretty low down on my list of reasons why Crytek would want to go to court.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:09
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DapperDon posted:No. None of this is even a remote possibility. Crytek gains nothing by accepting anything less than all their demands INCLUDING the injunction to shut the whole thing down. There is no more fundraising after that. That's even before we get into how much this will shave off of whatever cash CIG has left to pay their legal bills. Crytek is sitting pretty well with their recent cash infusion and have nothing to gain by being merciful to the very company that poached their staff and broke their agreement with. This is going to be the end of it and I am calling it now. This is a good thing for CIG. As long as the executives can shield their gains from Crytek, it allows them to close down shop and blame Star Citizen failing on a jealous money-starved company. Sure Chris made a few mistakes along the way but you know how the legal system is skewed against the little guy. Well, it was quite the adventure but this is the end of the dream.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:13
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DapperDon posted:I don't believe that CryTek wants the middle ground. Me neither. But if you put in a complaint that you want Chris' Porsche as part of the settlement, it would have to considered on the merits, likewise the injunction. We're waiting on the response from CiG, which could be a 'yes, sorry, we'd like to throw ourselves on the mercy of the court', 'gently caress you, we're going scorched earth' or somewhere between the two. I just don't know that the injunction is viable because of the havoc that it wreaks. Bear in mind that vengeance isn't a legal property. Lladre posted:Question: Doesn't the defense get to ultimately decide if it is a jury or a bench trial? 7th Amendment. if one part wants a jury trial, they get it. Both parties can waive, though. Yeah, immigration revision for the Bill of Rights pays off. Which reminds me, I'm now as American as school shootings.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:15
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Chalks posted:Either way, spending millions just so they can scream "gently caress you chris roberts!!" across the court room is pretty low down on my list of reasons why Crytek would want to go to court. It's a little bit more than that. Because they get money too. Never underestimate the power and motivation of destroying an enemy with the might of the courts behind you. This will crush CIG and send Ortwin and Chris Roberts back to the stone ages that no kickstarter will ever bring them back from. Also you are not taking into account that once CT wins, and they will, that their entire legal bill is going to be left on Chris Roberts desk on top of everything else. That is the entire reason you WANT a jury trial, because they make for the best awarded damages. Imagine sitting 12 people down and try and explain to them why you intentionally hosed over the company that made you successful in the first place and what you have been spending the money you should have been paying to them with on.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:18
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If GIG admit to using cryengine then crytek win because CIG are idiots If CIG say they used Lumberyard crytek win because the exclusivity clause It's a classic catch 42 situation and Chris has a thumb for a head
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Jan 5, 2018 19:19
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Hav posted:I just don't know that the injunction is viable because of the havoc that it wreaks. Bear in mind that vengeance isn't a legal property. I kinda read that bit as an either/or scenario. Either pay us back royalties that you avoided paying by agreeing to the GLA, or it's reasonable for us to get an injunction to stop you from using our game engine against the licensing agreement. To me that doesn't seem like vengeance so much as simple IP protection.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:20
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Chalks posted:Either way, spending millions just so they can scream "gently caress you chris roberts!!" across the court room is pretty low down on my list of reasons why Crytek would want to go to court. Yeah. They can be extremely interested in pushing as hard as they can for what they want. If skinny is to be believed, they've been at this since March 2017, which makes the whole thing expensive from the get-go, but again, it's a jury trial based on copyright infringement and a contractual dispute. Things are a lot more boring and usually geared towards stability and achieving satisfaction with the minimum of fuss. Fuss, when it occurs, can gently caress a jury trial because you're confusing the average man. hot balls man no homo posted:Well, it was quite the adventure but this is the end of the dream. It does mean that Roberts has a habit of infringing contracts, so it's not all gravy.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:20
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hot balls man no homo posted:This is a good thing for CIG. As long as the executives can shield their gains from Crytek, it allows them to close down shop and blame Star Citizen failing on a jealous money-starved company. Sure Chris made a few mistakes along the way but you know how the legal system is skewed against the little guy. Well, it was quite the adventure but this is the end of the dream. Fun fact, you get to personally attach the CEO of a company to your litigation. And by direct association that means since Chris and Sandi are legally married, that means BOTH of their assets can be in jeopardy.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:20
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Lladre posted:Yeah I did not mean to imply taking out a loan for cash flow means they are in financial trouble. Just that they don't have the massive reserves some people think they do. how did you make the kermit vomit avatar lol
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Jan 5, 2018 19:23
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Hav posted:Me neither. Just because the outcome would be a disaster for CIG it is not unreasonable to strip them of that which does not belong to them. If they broke their contract with CryTek and they ask for all things made with their tech to be taken away, that is what the courts would deem fair and equitable. All of this is a self inflicted wound on behalf of Chris Roberts and Ortwin. CIG can ask for mercy all they want, but they are not entitled to that which does not belong to them and there is no way the courts can force CryTek to keep allowing them to use their tech and everything created from it unjustly. This is a YUUUGE mistake on behalf of CIG.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:25
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Virtual Captain posted:The Turkish $500M always seemed a little far fetched to me. But for sure they got a nice payday from Amazon. Kotaku heard 50-70M. Yeah I take as given they got their $50M+ for CryEngine buyout some time ago. And maybe that’s what DapperDon was referring to. I’ve seen those “Turkey invested a half billion in Crytek and they’re gunning for CIG with enough cash to last til doomsday!” claims elsewhere and may be conflating here.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:28
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Dusty Lens posted:I would pay good money to watch someone explain Star Citizen to a jury of normal people.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:29
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G0RF posted:Yeah I take as given they got their $50M+ for CryEngine buyout some time ago. And maybe that’s what DapperDon was referring to. I’ve seen those “Turkey invested a half billion in Crytek and they’re gunning for CIG with enough cash to last til doomsday!” claims elsewhere and may be conflating here. Missed you question, but yes I was talking about Amazon as well as their new partnership with CryCash as well as their Xbox games.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:30
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It would involve a lawyer standing in front of a jury with a flip book of your commando waking up in his wankpod so that the FPS would be high enough to get the scene accurately depicted.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:31
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DapperDon posted:Fun fact, you get to personally attach the CEO of a company to your litigation. And by direct association that means since Chris and Sandi are legally married, that means BOTH of their assets can be in jeopardy. If this was an 80s movie there'd be a post courtroom scene where Chris and Sandi go to retrieve the ten million in bearer bonds they had hidden in a duffel bag held in Ben's name at a subway station somewhere... But it's been replaced with a 15,000 page script for Star Citizen!??? Then a quick cut to Lesnick and the missus cutting the ribbon on the new Wing Commander museum in Argentina. The 'ol boys at Crytek shout that they can't believe the madman did it before piling into a jeep to chase the next big wave.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:34
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Bayonnefrog posted:how did you make the kermit vomit avatar lol Someone made Derek upset by changing his avatar. So he changed mine. Like he did a few other people. He had a whole tally thing going for a while too. So far he's spent $20 more on my avatar than I have on his games.  Sammie don't care none. e: made timg since it was on the big side.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:35
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dat fuckin neckerchief
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Jan 5, 2018 19:36
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Dusty Lens posted:I would pay good money to watch someone explain Star Citizen to a jury of my peers. "It's like a timeshare condo resale scam - just with nerd games."
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Jan 5, 2018 19:37
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Dusty Lens posted:If this was an 80s movie there'd be a post courtroom scene where Chris and Sandi go to retrieve the ten million in bearer bonds they had hidden in a duffel bag held in Ben's name at a subway station somewhere... But it's been replaced with a 15,000 page script for Star Citizen!??? Wait. I've seen that movie! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqLe5kUw_5s
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Jan 5, 2018 19:37
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DapperDon posted:Fun fact, you get to personally attach the CEO of a company to your litigation. And by direct association that means since Chris and Sandi are legally married, that means BOTH of their assets can be in jeopardy. Wrong. You can't convict a husband and wife of the same crime. That's basic Law 101 stuff, Dapper.  On a separate,  note, here's a discussion question for everyone: is there any possibility that Crytek's long-shot plan once this suit does its damage is to buy CIG? We've speculated in the past over the potentially high value of a database listing overly gullible man-children with very deep pockets (due to STEM careers w/ no other human hobbies or interactions), so is it possible that Crytek's plan is to...1. Legally kick Chris Roberts in the nuts so hard his hands start gesticulating blood. 2. Permanently bankrupt CIG. 3. [Optional] Offer Chris and/or Coutts some negligible amount of money for 100% of the CIG assets. It's a long shot, but the end result would be that Crytek has a database of proven suckers, plus a whole bunch of CIG detritus from which to throw together a workable game of some sort. For a company with a halfway not-horrible game engine but NO actual IP of their own, it might not be a bad way to acquire one on deep discount.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:40
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I just caught up on Bootcha video 3, The Gang's All Here. One small tidbit that you missed, Bootcha: The Wing Commander CIC was literally hosted on Origin / EA's servers for the first several years of its life, which is a huge part of the reason that Lesnick & Co.--at the CIC, that is--would ban anyone on sight if they dared to criticize the way EA killed Origin.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:40
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DapperDon posted:Wait. I've seen that movie! *roll credits* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOXaPE6gklI
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Jan 5, 2018 19:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0Du72uTpI
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Jan 5, 2018 19:41
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DapperDon posted:No. When you make the complaint, you get to choose how it is heard. Hav posted:7th Amendment. if one part wants a jury trial, they get it. Both parties can waive, though. Cool. Makes sense why they'd want it since the jury can decide to award a lot more money like they did in the Oculus thing.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:41
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Dusty Lens posted:If this was an 80s movie there'd be a post courtroom scene where Chris and Sandi go to retrieve the ten million in bearer bonds they had hidden in a duffel bag held in Ben's name at a subway station somewhere... But it's been replaced with a 15,000 page script for Star Citizen!??? 
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Jan 5, 2018 19:41
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quote:Also On Friday, May 4th, we will host a private Concierge event, which will include an intimate tour of our LA headquarters, followed by dinner in the commissary and a sit-down Q&A with Chris Roberts and key devs from the Star Citizen team. More details can be found here. The event will be filmed with highlights airing at a later date. It will be limited to 60 tickets, going on sale to Concierge members for $350 in three installments: From a buddy that's apparently still getting concierge emails. Every participating backer please feel free to take a piece of furniture with you on your way out.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:42
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Why would you want hundreds of millions in engineering debt that is already owed to the entire audience for the product? There isn't much upside to buying it since the the people who are going to buy it already own it.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:43
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Hav posted:
Uh, you do realize they don't mean much now. Read the 4th.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:46
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C-Bangin' it 
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Goredema posted:Wrong. You can't convict a husband and wife of the same crime. That's basic Law 101 stuff, Dapper. It’s a long shot alright, and I’m more inclined to think the mess Chris has made of it all stinks far too badly for anyone to covet it for their own, but the thought of all the Crytek leavers muttering like Pacino is grimly amusing.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:46
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Goredema posted:Wrong. You can't convict a husband and wife of the same crime. That's basic Law 101 stuff, Dapper. You missed the point completely. It is not a matter of convicting them both, if you attach a married mans assets then guess what pal? ALL OF THE JOINT ASSETS are NOW in play. And any attempt to separate of hide them at that point would be a very big legal no no. As to your other questions, why would Crytek or anyone else want a janky and broken mess of spaghetti code with such a stigmata of failure that is well over a decade of unfucking itself? The database they have is not really worth anything to anyone considering that its a list of the most toxic and damaging people that no company would want associated with their business that just want star citizen and think all other games are poo poo. Let alone why those backers would want a damned thing to do with the very company that destroyed The Dream.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:48
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Dusty Lens posted:*roll credits*
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Jan 5, 2018 19:49
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Beet Wagon posted:I want to say the amount of the loan (or at least a loan) was revealed in the last round of Foundry 42 public filings, but I could be wrong. That was a while ago. That was assumed to be the NatWest loan that shows the registration of charge filed for Foundry 42. For whatever reason, loans show on the balance sheet in the accounts of CIG UK. They had long term loans totalling around $1m at the end of 2015 and $1.3m at the end of 2016.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:53
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Dusty Lens posted:From a buddy that's apparently still getting concierge emails. Wait, you get to pay thousands of dollars for jpegs to qualify for this VIP club and then pay another $350 for the privilege of eating pizza and walking around an office that smells like gym socks and stale coffee?
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Jan 5, 2018 19:54
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monkeytek posted:Wait, you get to pay thousands of dollars for jpegs to qualify for this VIP club and then pay another $350 for the privilege of eating pizza and walking around an office that smells like gym socks and stale coffee? Yeah you say that but for $21000 they'll probably have three different kinds of pizza toppings available and who among us can boast of sampling such luxury. My lol was at the event being filmed and highlights being shown at a later date. If you've spent more than $1000 you can give us a little more to participate in our Star Citizen commercial. If you're thinking that there'll be a citizencon this year, well, haha better come to this one just saying haha.
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Jan 5, 2018 19:58
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Dusty Lens posted:I would pay good money to watch someone explain Star Citizen to a jury of my peers. Bring a blu Ray with all the episodes of Sunk Cost galaxy once finished.
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