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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Huh, I didn't remember them using the term "laser sword" before Luke's dismissive line in TLJ. Neither did I! Which is one reason I chose that bit. It works there for different reasons.
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Jan 5, 2018 21:32
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Well this is brilliant.
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Jan 5, 2018 21:35
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euphronius posted:Neither did I! Which is one reason I chose that bit. It works there for different reasons. I will confess that while I'm down on the dialogue and delivery in general, you picked a decent short exchange to hold up. The contrast between the naive but enthusiastic tow-headed boy interrogating an outsider and the wry, cagey mystic wanderer is good. At least until the cartoon minstrel show rabbit frog thing opens his mouth. 
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Jan 5, 2018 21:36
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euphronius posted:Liked? Who cares what I like. But ok for example most of the dialog between Gui gon and Schmi I like. This is a great example actually since all of that chemistry and dialogue was on the actors, they've both talked about how lifeless both of their characters felt as written and how they had to go against Lucas' vision for every little point where they seemed like human beings.
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Jan 5, 2018 21:38
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Liam Neeson actually put in a performance though so fair play.
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Jan 5, 2018 21:40
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I need an army of smg clones to own nerds on Facebook and reddit
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Jan 5, 2018 21:41
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:I will confess that while I'm down on the dialogue and delivery in general, you picked a decent short exchange to hold up. The contrast between the naive but enthusiastic tow-headed boy interrogating an outsider and the wry, cagey mystic wanderer is good. At least until the cartoon minstrel show rabbit frog thing opens his mouth. There's a hilarious juxtaposition of Qui-Gon "joking" that Anakin has Jedi reflexes to pilot a podracer and snatching Jar Jar's tongue out of midair in the same conversation
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Jan 5, 2018 21:42
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homullus posted:George Lucas himself asserted that ANH in particular is almost a silent film, in which the dialogue is just another sound effect that adds to your understanding of the action. yeah i could totally see that. if there was ever a fan edit i would watch it would be that one
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Jan 5, 2018 21:46
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thrawn527 posted:Well this is brilliant. By vectrons hammer!
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Jan 5, 2018 21:52
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Neo Rasa posted:This is a great example actually since all of that chemistry and dialogue was on the actors, they've both talked about how lifeless both of their characters felt as written and how they had to go against Lucas' vision for every little point where they seemed like human beings. You're saying that dialogue performed by actors that resulted in a good scene is actually bad and the only reason it's good is because of the actors? What on earth? The depths some of y'all will go to in order to avoid saying a single good thing about Lucas is genuinely incredible
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Jan 5, 2018 22:01
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Regardless Lucas is the one who chose which take to use in the final film.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:03
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Can someone just find that quote of Lucas declaring outright that the “flat” delivery in the prequels was intentional and achieved the effect he was looking for?
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Jan 5, 2018 22:19
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The "flat" dialogue works in context of the Prequels. For most of their lives, the Jedi were peacekeepers and the aristocrats were, well, rich rear end in a top hat aristocrats. I'd imagine for the most part, Padme's life was pretty stale outside of the events of Episode 1, and stale again until Kiera Knightly blew up. Outside of Anakin, I'm certain a lot of the main players of the Prequels were having pretty boring, routine lives before the events of the film's. And I'm certain even the Jedi were thinking life would go normal after they surely won this Clone War. They had a different lifestyle to that of the main players of the OT. I bet Sheev only even thought to orchestrate both sides into a war, kill the Jedi, bring down the Republic and become Emperor was because he was so bored.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:29
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"ANAKIN: I had a dream I was a Jedi. I came back here to free all the slaves..." Good job on that Anakin. Also something brought up to me last week which I had forgotten about, but with Shmi being a slave, she really should have concluded something completely different about Anakin's "father" than she did. Obviously that would have been a bit much for a movie aimed at kids, but for real ya'll.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:30
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I've always interpreted it as schmi just saying she was raped.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:32
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Yeah I mean that's normally how you'd take that line from that character but I think textually we're supposed to take away that yet, Anikan literally was "conceived by the Force." Also pretty troubling to our contemporary Earth sensibilities that Kliegg Lars bought her for a wife. Even if he did grant a nominal sort of manumission after the purchase? she's a penniless ex-slave on a desert planet who he dragged out onto an isolated farmstead. How free is she?
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Jan 5, 2018 22:35
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Detective No. 27 posted:The "flat" dialogue works in context of the Prequels. For most of their lives, the Jedi were peacekeepers and the aristocrats were, well, rich rear end in a top hat aristocrats. I'd imagine for the most part, Padme's life was pretty stale outside of the events of Episode 1, and stale again until Kiera Knightly blew up. Outside of Anakin, I'm certain a lot of the main players of the Prequels were having pretty boring, routine lives before the events of the film's. And I'm certain even the Jedi were thinking life would go normal after they surely won this Clone War. They had a different lifestyle to that of the main players of the OT. I bet Sheev only even thought to orchestrate both sides into a war, kill the Jedi, bring down the Republic and become Emperor was because he was so bored. Minor correction, but that's wasn't Kiera Knightly anymore. She was only in TPM. The double who blew up in AOTC was played by Verónica Segura.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:35
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Anakin is actually half Watto.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:35
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Steve2911 posted:What did you mean by meme before you edited? I literally just suggested that different casting choices could've benefited the angle he was going for (if indeed he was going for anything). ‘Bad on purpose’ is a meme that people repeat despite the fact that the notion crumbles under the slightest scrutiny. What you ‘suggested’ is that, if the acting is bad on purpose, then the filmmakers could have made it even more bad on purpose by casting bad actors on purpose. In other words, the casting director cast good actors on purpose but, since the film is bad on purpose, the good on purpose casting led to bad not on purpose acting. This bad not on purpose acting compromised the bad-on-purposefulness of the film. I took the word ‘meme’ out of my post because I do acknowledge the nonzero chance that you came up with this silliness purely on your own. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 5, 2018 |
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Jan 5, 2018 22:37
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Yeah I mean that's normally how you'd take that line from that character but I think textually we're supposed to take away that yet, Anikan literally was "conceived by the Force." She can be raped from her pov and him be conceived by the force from the Jedis pov at the same time I think. And yes all sex with Lars was rape.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:38
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:Yeah I mean that's normally how you'd take that line from that character but I think textually we're supposed to take away that yet, Anikan literally was "conceived by the Force." i don't think you're supposed to look at the relationship between lars and shmi and go "yeah this is totally on the level"
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Jan 5, 2018 22:40
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euphronius posted:And yes all sex with Lars was rape. There's a pretty workable ~headcanon~ that she ran away and had the misfortune of running into tuskens. Lars does not come across as a super reliable narrator. Serf posted:i don't think you're supposed to look at the relationship between lars and shmi and go "yeah this is totally on the level" Yeah the fact that her character is never allowed to comment so much as a word on it is pretty damning.
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Jan 5, 2018 22:40
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Anakin calls them out as "good people," but of course all such judgements, both Watsonian and Doylist, are subject to context and perspective. The removal of Shmi's anti-running-away bomb and her relocation to the moisture farm was the practical consequence of Clegg purchasing and emancipating her. C-3PO came with her, but, as a droid, remained a slave and was put to work as a farmhand.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:11
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Jan 5, 2018 23:12
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euphronius posted:And yes all sex with Lars was rape. True, but only because all sex is rape.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:13
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I agree with SuperMechagodzilla about "bad on purpose" being nonsensical. I think Lucas had justifications for all the decisions he made with the Prequels. But i think its okay for people to see the Prequels, understand what Lucas was doing, and still not like them. I enjoy the Prequels, more or less, but i have some negative opinions about them. I still think the idea of trade disputes being the inciting incident of Episode 1 is kind of boring, even if Lucas was trying to express something with that. But my opinions are not facts. I'm interested to hear what SuperMechagodzilla would consider to be a bad movie. What counts as a bad movie, SMG? Is it possible for a movie to be executed poorly?
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Jan 5, 2018 23:15
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Lucas is himself a good editor. It's the filmmaking technique he was always best at, like straight up using a moviola and cutting the film style editing. It's why he was friends with so many good editors and married an editor, probably
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Jan 5, 2018 23:19
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Detective No. 27 posted:The "flat" dialogue works in context of the Prequels. For most of their lives, the Jedi were peacekeepers and the aristocrats were, well, rich rear end in a top hat aristocrats. I'd imagine for the most part, Padme's life was pretty stale outside of the events of Episode 1, and stale again until Kiera Knightly blew up. Outside of Anakin, I'm certain a lot of the main players of the Prequels were having pretty boring, routine lives before the events of the film's. And I'm certain even the Jedi were thinking life would go normal after they surely won this Clone War. They had a different lifestyle to that of the main players of the OT. I bet Sheev only even thought to orchestrate both sides into a war, kill the Jedi, bring down the Republic and become Emperor was because he was so bored. Historically, rich aristocrats have tended to be more flamboyant, colorful characters, rather than flat, emotionless stoics. I mean, there's always been a mixture, but the stereotype you have in your head seems to come from the stereotype of British aristocracy, rather than the Continental kind.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:‘Bad on purpose’ is a meme that people repeat despite the fact that the notion crumbles under the slightest scrutiny. Ok. George Lucas directed the actors to give performances that lacked emotion or range. I think it may have worked better if he cast actors who didn't already have established careers playing extremely emotive characters, as it felt, to the audience, unnatural to see these actors in these roles. And in my opinion the actors didn't appear to be comfortable with the performances that they were asked to give.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:19
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Blue Star posted:I agree with SuperMechagodzilla about "bad on purpose" being nonsensical. I think Lucas had justifications for all the decisions he made with the Prequels. But i think its okay for people to see the Prequels, understand what Lucas was doing, and still not like them. I enjoy the Prequels, more or less, but i have some negative opinions about them. I still think the idea of trade disputes being the inciting incident of Episode 1 is kind of boring, even if Lucas was trying to express something with that. But my opinions are not facts. Check out the BR2049 thread bud
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Jan 5, 2018 23:20
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Steve2911 posted:Ok. George Lucas directed the actors to give performances that lacked emotion or range. I think it may have worked better if he cast actors who didn't already have established careers playing extremely emotive characters, as it felt, to the audience, unnatural to see these actors in these roles. And in my opinion the actors didn't appear to be comfortable with the performances that they were asked to give. You're talking about Sammy J right
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Jan 5, 2018 23:20
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The thing I never got about trade disputes being boring... Yeah sure that's boring in theory, but about thirty seconds into the movie after a brief discussion saying why they're there they get attacked by poison gas and go rampage through the ship like unstoppable slasher villains. The trade dispute is the setting, but it doesn't take a hell of a lot of runtime.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:20
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Jeb! Repetition posted:You're talking about Sammy J right Among others. You could argue that Hayden Christensen gives a better performance (in this context) than the rest of the cast for this reason. Al Borland Corp. posted:The thing I never got about trade disputes being boring... Yeah sure that's boring in theory, but about thirty seconds into the movie after a brief discussion saying why they're there they get attacked by poison gas and go rampage through the ship like unstoppable slasher villains. The trade dispute is the setting, but it doesn't take a hell of a lot of runtime. It gets quite a few expository scenes on Naboo.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:23
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The trade dispute embroils the characters in political intrigue, so the idea that once the Jedi are infringing on something that characters within the film view as "none of their business" means they have to die. It doesn't take up a lot of diegetic time for characters, but it absolutely is clear that there's a weight to the political situation. Qui Gon and Obi-Wan are not innocent observers, they're military/coercive agents, and the Trade Federation leaders recognize this. A trade dispute isn't just politics to be debated, it's policy to be enforced and the attack is a way of conveying that tapestry. Other than that, you get the aforementioned talking heads, but no one's going to peacefully navigate the situation until Sidious/Palpatine begins his manipulations.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:24
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Serious question: Did anyone ever encounter this much analysis on TPM anywhere on the internet before RLM did their review? It's like now that RLM has extensively reviewed and nitpicked the PT it's almost become a goddamn meme unto itself for nerds of all shapes and smells to over analyze Star Wars.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:24
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The thing I never got about trade disputes being boring... Yeah sure that's boring in theory, but about thirty seconds into the movie after a brief discussion saying why they're there they get attacked by poison gas and go rampage through the ship like unstoppable slasher villains. The trade dispute is the setting, but it doesn't take a hell of a lot of runtime. I think when people say it's "boring" what they mean is the stakes of a trade agreement being struck or not isn't as interesting as the stakes of whether the galaxy will be freed from tyranny or not. Although the actual stakes of the trade agreement were whether Palpatine would get more power, which he always does
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Jan 5, 2018 23:26
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The thing I never got about trade disputes being boring... Yeah sure that's boring in theory, but about thirty seconds into the movie after a brief discussion saying why they're there they get attacked by poison gas and go rampage through the ship like unstoppable slasher villains. The trade dispute is the setting, but it doesn't take a hell of a lot of runtime. What I think people are trying to say is that Star Wars is "supposed" to be this archetypal Campbellian adventure story with beats and characters that are dreamlike in their ur- simplicity: "The Evil Empire," "the captured Princess," "the Desert," "the Old Wizard," "the Dark Cave Where You Fight The Symbol of Evil and Then Really It's You Yeah That Seems Kinda Philosophical," etc.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:26
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AndyElusive posted:Serious question: Did anyone ever encounter this much analysis on TPM anywhere on the internet before RLM did their review? I did, cause I was a fuckin nerd and looked for it. It was out there.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:28
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I bet Palps would be a pretty cool dude to hang out with
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Jan 5, 2018 23:29
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Al Borland Corp. posted:The thing I never got about trade disputes being boring... Yeah sure that's boring in theory, but about thirty seconds into the movie after a brief discussion saying why they're there they get attacked by poison gas and go rampage through the ship like unstoppable slasher villains. The trade dispute is the setting, but it doesn't take a hell of a lot of runtime. True. I just would prefer something more "Star Wars-y". A while back i had an idea that instead of the Trade Federation, its Count Dooku who invades Naboo with a mercenary army. He's a Naboo noble (hence the title) and wants to usurp the throne, and the Republic cant do anything about it. But enough of my fanfics. You're right that there's nothing really wrong with the trade dispute idea; it was just kinda funny to see it in the opening crawl back when i first saw the movie. Like the Original Trilogy is all exciting and Flash Gordon-y adventure, and Episode 1 starts out with "Uh, some people sure are ticked off about these gosh-darn taxations of trade routes". But its not really a big deal, i guess. I just think we could have gotten the same effect with a different sort of set-up. I mean, the point is to show that the Old Republic is useless and beauracratic; you could have shown this with something that sounded more exciting in the opening crawl.
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Jan 5, 2018 23:30
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