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Warm up the thread. 1 in 1 million cops did a thing. Clearly all cops are bad and good people can't become cops to fix the problem over time because then they would become cops and, by definition, be also bad.
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Dec 30, 2017 04:08
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I was finally CS gassed. That was really easy.
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Dec 30, 2017 04:11
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Chichevache posted:I was finally CS gassed. That was really easy. The burning was fine. The bad bit was the sensation of a pebble in your shoe, except in this case the shoe is your eyelid. I just walked in a circle for like 30 minutes going ARGH. gently caress. blink blink. ARGH. gently caress.
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Dec 30, 2017 07:31
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Victor Vermis posted:The burning was fine. I recovered in 30 seconds.  also I got this mixed up with the other cop thread.
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Dec 30, 2017 09:23
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Victor Vermis posted:Warm up the thread. SWAT icing a dude for answering the door seems to be incompetence instead of maliciousness (by the cop I mean). Right now without all the facts this seems to be a case of leadership failure by improperly training their swat members.
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Dec 30, 2017 09:50
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news posted:They said one round was released by officers after the 28-year-old failed to comply with verbal orders to keep his hands up, and appeared to move his hands toward his waist multiple times. All they did was set the round free! I do enjoy the softening word choice over time. Fired his gun Fired his weapon Discharged his weapon Discharged a round Released a round Released some freedom, citizen
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Dec 30, 2017 20:30
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A bullet is restrained only by the heroic effort of the cop. Naturally, in a high stress environment like a dude answering the door, a bullet or two might get loose.
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Dec 30, 2017 22:28
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CS sucks when they make you do push-ups and work out and poo poo in the CS room. If someone shoots CS at you, I recommend it not be in a small room while you do calisthenics. Also don’t shoot unarmed people without reason.
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Dec 31, 2017 01:41
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Victor Vermis posted:Warm up the thread. Perhaps if more of them were held accountable for their actions people wouldn't feel this way about them. Same goes for probation officers being huge failures
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Dec 31, 2017 07:08
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Same goes for probation officers being huge failures That seems like a really random axe to grind. Then again, I've never met a PO.
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Dec 31, 2017 08:01
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Dead Reckoning posted:That seems like a really random axe to grind. Then again, I've never met a PO. I'd be shocked- SHOCKED I SAY, To find out Kawasaki Nun has some edgy opinions on the persecution of hands-off sex offenders.
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Dec 31, 2017 10:32
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Cop shoot man video I think demonstrates an approach advocated by some folks in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWg4Y-2-VAo Dude is acting irrational as gently caress, cops smoothly transition to tazering him, and he still manages to pull off a few rounds. No good answers, right?
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Jan 5, 2018 13:30
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Yeah, I'd say verbal orders, then tazer, then having to shoot when the suspect pulls a gun on you counts as pretty reasonable  Good job, cops, in this case for not being dead and also for not shooting someone without cause!
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Jan 5, 2018 13:55
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Yeah honestly most of the Police Activity YouTube vids I watched look like good shoots. Some of em are straight up manslaughter at the least but most of the ones I've seen are absolutely good shoots.
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Jan 5, 2018 14:31
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Looked like they tagged him several times...I'm pretty surprised he survived (and is now facing 3 attempted murder charges). But yeah that's a good one to show how fast poo poo goes south.
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Jan 5, 2018 16:26
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Godholio posted:But yeah that's a good one to show how fast poo poo goes south. And also how you can wait til it goes south and also live, instead of scaredy-shooting them ahead of time.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:23
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mlmp08 posted:And also how you can wait til it goes south and also live, instead of scaredy-shooting them ahead of time. Yeah, they should make it policy that the suspect gets to expend half his mag first as long as his gun isn't actually aimed at the officers.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:28
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They'll just shoot first then fire off a few rounds from a drop piece
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Jan 6, 2018 00:42
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Godholio posted:Yeah, they should make it policy that the suspect gets to expend half his mag first as long as his gun isn't actually aimed at the officers. That's what I said, alright!
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Jan 6, 2018 00:47
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Well ok. So actually reaching for a beltline is too early, but actually letting the suspect open fire is too late. What should the trigger (no pun intended) be?
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Jan 6, 2018 00:50
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Positive ID.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:51
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You're aware how short that timeline is, right? Like...we're talking 1/4 sec or less.
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Jan 6, 2018 00:52
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Godholio posted:You're aware how short that timeline is, right? Like...we're talking 1/4 sec or less. Yeah, poo poo sucks, I'd give mitigating circumstances to a lone/outnumbered cop who was quicker on the trigger or if we institute the cop-draft.
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Jan 6, 2018 01:00
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Hell "reaching for the beltline" would be an upgrade over what we have now
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Jan 6, 2018 01:46
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mlmp08 posted:And also how you can wait til it goes south and also live, instead of scaredy-shooting them ahead of time. haha jesus christ. Disregard the guy trying to unload his gun at the cop I guess.
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Jan 6, 2018 04:50
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I said that was a good shoot. And it was. 
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Jan 6, 2018 15:43
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Godholio posted:Well ok. So actually reaching for a beltline is too early, but actually letting the suspect open fire is too late. What should the trigger (no pun intended) be? This disregards all of the events that got a cop(s) (not that specific video, in general) into that situation. Did they pursue without adequate backup? Were the police clearly identified to the person they shot? Why did they put themselves in a situation where there isn't enough time or cover for less lethal alternatives or at least a moment to fully assess the circumstances? Was there an appropriate opportunity to deescalate that was ignored? There are some situations where killing someone really is unavoidable, but in a hell of a lot of cases the cops have created the circumstances that "force" them to shoot someone.
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Jan 6, 2018 17:12
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:This disregards all of the events that got a cop(s) (not that specific video, in general) into that situation. Did they pursue without adequate backup? Were the police clearly identified to the person they shot? Why did they put themselves in a situation where there isn't enough time or cover for less lethal alternatives or at least a moment to fully assess the circumstances? Was there an appropriate opportunity to deescalate that was ignored? If the ultimate point you're trying to make is that every situation should be judged based on its merits and available evidence, then I'm going to completely agree. Not about the "hell of a lot of cases" bit, though.
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Jan 6, 2018 17:47
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Tapes like this, where the cop was clearly attempting to deescallate, a hostile subject with a known weapon, and an attempt to use non-lethal means, depict a wholely valid course of action that still sadly resulted in loss of life. Those officers did their job and should be allowed to continue to do their job with the goodwill of the populace. Whereas the dozen tapes we've had that clearly show negligent homicide have also resulted in no consequences. Those officers are still part of the system but their actions now have eroded public trust, making the job of the rest of the force more difficult. So yeah, judge every incident on the merits and have accountability.
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Jan 6, 2018 17:50
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mlmp08 posted:I said that was a good shoot. And it was. They should've "scaredy shot" him. Instead they hosed around and put their lives, and any bystander lives, in the hands of: - Chinese children who assembled the tazer - dipshit's firearm maintenance - Odds that dipshit's bullets are gonna go dirt dirt dirt and not leg chest face
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Jan 6, 2018 18:32
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Victor Vermis posted:They should've "scaredy shot" him. Instead they hosed around and put their lives, and any bystander lives, in the hands of: Yeah, being a cop is a rough job and all, but unless it becomes a draft force in some sci-fi dystopia instead of a voluntary job in the real world, I'm all for cops shooting after positive ID.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:55
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Victor Vermis posted:They should've "scaredy shot" him. Instead they hosed around and put their lives, and any bystander lives, in the hands of: Ah yes, they should've shot the presumed innocent suspect. That is a smart and well analyzed position. Hell the president would probably agree with you.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:19
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Ah yes, they should've shot the presumed innocent suspect. That is a smart and well analyzed position. Hell the president would probably agree with you. "Cops need 12 jurors and a conviction before I'll comply with any instruction to indicate that I am not going to murder them during their investigation." Smart. Well analyzed. The president would probably agree with you.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:21
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Victor Vermis posted:"Cops need 12 jurors and a conviction before I'll comply with any instruction to indicate that I am not going to murder them during their investigation." So you are advocating for non-compliance as a trigger to a death sentence? I don't think what the cops did in that video was wrong at all - you seem to think they waited too long. If more cops acted like the ones on that tape did people probably wouldn't be so hostile to them as an institution. That policing is dangerous is why police officers are afforded so many special protections in our society. If they're just a killsquad making sure business isn't disrupted then they're not really a police force im interested in having.
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Jan 6, 2018 21:44
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Kawasaki Nun posted:Ah yes, they should've shot the presumed innocent suspect. That is a smart and well analyzed position. Hell the president would probably agree with you. They knew he had a gun and was acting erratically and not complying. They're also on a public street. Kawasaki Nun posted:So you are advocating for non-compliance as a trigger to a death sentence? I don't think what the cops did in that video was wrong at all - you seem to think they waited too long. If more cops acted like the ones on that tape did people probably wouldn't be so hostile to them as an institution. That policing is dangerous is why police officers are afforded so many special protections in our society. If they're just a killsquad making sure business isn't disrupted then they're not really a police force im interested in having. Right, people would absolutely love when the kids watching from 2 blocks down the street get tagged by an errant 9mm fired by a known-armed suspect who was acting aggressively for several minutes. I've watched that autopsy (well, it was an errant drive-by round, but eh), and I don't loving think so. People get pissed when the cops don't intervene early enough, too. Godholio fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 01:32
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Godholio posted:They knew he had a gun and was acting erratically and not complying. I don't know what point your trying to make, I said that was a good shoot that was conducted properly. VV is the one suggesting they should have shot earlier, which I disagree with. If people get upset with the cops for not being clairvoyant then that's their issue. That whole video should in my mind be the standard for conduct by police officers responding to a report of an armed suspect acting erratically.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:26
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If the guy got shots off, then IMO the cops were late.
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Jan 7, 2018 04:31
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Godholio posted:If the guy got shots off, then IMO the cops were late. That's a pretty impossible standard to put on cops. "Always shoot first, but only if you know the person is a threat" requires X-Ray vision, Spidey senses, and a host of other super powers. It would also imply that in literally every active shooter scenario, the cops were "late" and that's a really pointless standard to set in a world where the pre-crime unit is science fiction.
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Jan 7, 2018 23:16
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Godholio posted:If the guy got shots off, then IMO the cops were late. Better shoot first just to be safe. gently caress law and order - Cop supporters
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Jan 8, 2018 00:23
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mlmp08 posted:That's a pretty impossible standard to put on cops. "Always shoot first, but only if you know the person is a threat" requires X-Ray vision, Spidey senses, and a host of other super powers. It would also imply that in literally every active shooter scenario, the cops were "late" and that's a really pointless standard to set in a world where the pre-crime unit is science fiction. You're the one who thinks the cops should have to verify that the erratic suspect who they were told was armed has in fact pulled out a gun and not a wallet or cell phone. I don't think absolute knowledge should be a requirement, merely a reasonable perception of imminent danger based on the totality of the circumstances.
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Jan 8, 2018 01:13
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