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LinYutang posted:She did kinda end up being hosed in the head Yeah, people complain about her attacking her mom, but I took that as she wasn't raised in a way to really understand her actions with regards to violence. They could have played that aspect up a bit, however.
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Jan 6, 2018 18:39
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Yeah, people complain about her attacking her mom, but I took that as she wasn't raised in a way to really understand her actions with regards to violence. Well she was kind of going off the deep end with the drugs and everything. There are cases in reality where abusive/controlling parents get offed by their offspring, the worst I can think of being that mom who basically ruined her daughter to get sympathy, and then the daughter's online boyfriend finally came over and murdered the mom. Like she was poisoning the daughter and neglecting education and basic social needs.
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Jan 6, 2018 19:48
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I felt like the idea of Arkangel is that you thought the tech would make the daughter messed up in the head but it actually made the mom messed up in the head. Almost all of the tech in the show is an obvious bad idea but Arkangel was probably the most over-the-top example of it, just an insane idea totally embraced from the beginning of the episode. Props to that episode for having the high schoolers actually look/dress/act like high schoolers though, they usually look way too fashionable/coordinated on TV. No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 6, 2018 |
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Jan 6, 2018 19:51
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Cojawfee posted:You could probably go to any mall in America and poll new moms and most of them would say they would love to block their children from seeing scary things. Yeah speaking as someone who knows a lot of middle aged mothers, many of them are deeply concerned about their children hearing swear words or watching dramas with people kissing. The mom in Arkangel rang totally true to me, and if brain implants were already widely accepted, people would totally spring for parental filter brain implants on their kids, no question.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:10
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Android Blues posted:Yeah speaking as someone who knows a lot of middle aged mothers, many of them are deeply concerned about their children hearing swear words or watching dramas with people kissing. The mom in Arkangel rang totally true to me, and if brain implants were already widely accepted, people would totally spring for parental filter brain implants on their kids, no question. God, imagine going through puberty like that. Daughter can't figure out why her underwear is occasionally blurry. Son has no idea why things fuzz out when he looks at his math teacher who wears the short skirts. The one bright spot I can think of is it'd be super-easy to tell if a particular relative where doing bad things to the kid; he's the one who always turns blurry when he goes in for a hug.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:18
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Doltos posted:Yeah this always gets me with Black Mirror. You need a big suspension of disbelief to get to the point of some of these episodes. Society needs to ultra-breakdown in their mindsets about other people in order for it to be possible to not have a massive lawsuit the second Arkangel's technology hits market. To be fair Arkangel's technology was banned.
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Jan 6, 2018 20:59
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FireWorksWell posted:There are cases in reality where abusive/controlling parents get offed by their offspring, the worst I can think of being that mom who basically ruined her daughter to get sympathy, and then the daughter's online boyfriend finally came over and murdered the mom this has happened at least 3 times now in the past 20 years, not just the once!
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Jan 6, 2018 22:25
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USS Callister has left a sort of residual creeped out echo, where I realize now I often play videogames like the Captain guy (not to the point where I'm like, needlessly torturing but like you know...GTA...Crusader Kings II, you're kind of like often a sociopath Captain Kirk caricature) and it skeezes me out
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Jan 6, 2018 23:10
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"treat your NPCs better, folks"- Black Mirror creator Matt Parker
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Jan 6, 2018 23:11
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Punkin Spunkin posted:USS Callister has left a sort of residual creeped out echo, where I realize now I often play videogames like the Captain guy (not to the point where I'm like, needlessly torturing but like you know...GTA...Crusader Kings II, you're kind of like often a sociopath Captain Kirk caricature) and it skeezes me out The difference is, NPCs don't ask you to stop treating them badly. If they started to do that, then you should feel bad.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:19
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WampaLord posted:The difference is, NPCs don't ask you to stop treating them badly. If they started to do that, then you should feel bad. Iirc the guards in MGS would beg for their lives after firing a gun next to their head and pointing it at their nuts.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:40
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maskenfreiheit posted:Iirc the guards in MGS would beg for their lives after firing a gun next to their head and pointing it at their nuts. Sure, but that's a programmed response. I more meant like the NPCs somehow breaking out of their scripted behavior, breaking the fourth wall and asking you, the player, to not kill them.
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Jan 6, 2018 23:42
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WampaLord posted:Sure, but that's a programmed response. I more meant like the NPCs somehow breaking out of their scripted behavior, breaking the fourth wall and asking you, the player, to not kill them. Doesn’t Mantis in MGS1 do that indirectly “Put your controller on the floor!”
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Jan 7, 2018 00:00
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maskenfreiheit posted:Doesn’t Mantis in MGS1 do that indirectly Whatever examples you're going to throw out here (and I get the MGS1 Mantis reference, it was awesome at the time) will still be examples of scripted behaviour. The tech in Callister was true AI.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:05
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Punkin Spunkin posted:"treat your NPCs better, folks"- Black Mirror creator Matt Parker NPCs are not real. It doesn't matter if you treat them horribly.
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Jan 7, 2018 00:52
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Just got around to finishing up this season, and  It's just as hit-or-miss as it ever was, and even the weaker episodes were entertaining enough to be fine. The only real stand-out episodes in my opinion were USS Callister and Black Museum. In the previous seasons, the only stand-out episodes for me were 15 Million Merits, White Bear, White Christmas, San Junipero and Shut Up and Dance. It's just that the good episodes are really good, which I think more than justifies the series.
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Jan 7, 2018 01:24
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Thanks for the clarifications that video game npcs are in fact, not real, goons
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Jan 7, 2018 02:36
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Yeah, people complain about her attacking her mom, but I took that as she wasn't raised in a way to really understand her actions with regards to violence. The filter turned on inadvertently after she started attacking her mom with the tablet, so I thought that made it easier for her to continue wailing on her without seeing the effects of the violence. Another example of the filter over-insulating her and backfiring. Crocodile was just fuckin' depressing for me
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Jan 7, 2018 02:39
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Deltron 3030 posted:
She straight-up murdered a blind baby  
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Jan 7, 2018 02:59
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I found crocodile to be one of the strongest episodes, purely because the tech angle was such a marginal part of it, but the bleakest part, the infanticide, only came about because of that very marginal tech angle. Purest-strain black mirror of the whole thing, with metalhead coming close second. Feel like people are getting far too invested in sci-fi worldbuilding and not enough into the actual humanistic part of the show imo.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:15
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Once you got a good murder binge going, it's hard to stop.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:15
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The straight-up murder of a baby (and it not even mattering) was SO DUMB. If I had to write a fake Black Mirror episode to make fun of the series I'd tack that on as an ending.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:17
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That sort of twisting the knife is part of the show's homage to things like the twilight zone, though. Like, if you don't like that part of it, why are you watching it? Do you know what it is?
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Jan 7, 2018 03:23
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TomViolence posted:That sort of twisting the knife is part of the show's homage to things like the twilight zone, though. There's twisting the knife in a clever way and there's writing a grimdark story by a teenager that was really into Image and pro wrestling during the late 90s.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:29
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If you're watching Black Mirror, a TV show that proudly declares its roots to be in shows like the Twilight Zone and the Outer Limits and expecting to be Genuinely Clever then I think that's on you.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:31
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TomViolence posted:If you're watching Black Mirror, a TV show that proudly declares its roots to be in shows like the Twilight Zone and the Outer Limits and expecting to be Genuinely Clever then I think that's on you. I think my only mistake here is trying to engage you.
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Jan 7, 2018 03:40
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TomViolence posted:If you're watching Black Mirror, a TV show that proudly declares its roots to be in shows like the Twilight Zone and the Outer Limits and expecting to be Genuinely Clever then I think that's on you. But both of those shows were clever and good 
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Jan 7, 2018 03:44
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Mantis42 posted:But both of those shows were clever and good A) Yes, but not in a way that you'll appreciate if you dismiss things for trying too hard to be ironic or dark. B) No, not really; you're remembering the best episodes and forgetting the many, many clunkers.
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Jan 7, 2018 04:47
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21 Muns posted:A) Yes, but not in a way that you'll appreciate if you dismiss things for trying too hard to be ironic or dark. But the episodes that tried too hard to be ironic and dark are the bad ones.
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Jan 7, 2018 04:51
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The last 10 minutes of Crocodile are hilarious
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Jan 7, 2018 06:09
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HorseRenoir posted:The last 10 minutes of Crocodile are hilarious There's something magical about the baby reveal for me. I shouldn't have laughed so much from this episode, but the lead just made the whole episode work for me. She is a very terrifying 100lb woman.
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Jan 7, 2018 06:29
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Yeah I had a good laugh at the blind baby and the subsequent reveal that the cops can just pull memories out of animals too. "ah shucks all that murderin' for nothin'"
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Jan 7, 2018 06:42
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i had an idea for a black mirror episode and i thought i'd put it here because where else could i write about it where people would give a poo poo and also  .you put a lot of work in training elite soldiers like navy seals and suchlike which makes these individuals very valuable, but in missions they are just as vulnerable as anyone else to becoming casualties. so in this episode, a very famous elite squad of spec ops soldiers sign up for a program that will copy over their digital consciousnesses into advanced robot bodies that are fully decked out for war, essentially turning them into android supersoldiers in a sense, practically unkillable. and that these will only be only be activated for military service if they die. so next thing the squad is sent to some mission where they're KIA, and our crack squad of terminator androids is brought to life. now, the original squad were sold on the robot program because they were told they'd be able to keep on fighting for their country etc. etc. your typical marketing half truths bullshit, the typical BM thing of the technology being sold as something that it's not, by concealing / obfuscating the dark side. the robot squad find out they were never meant to operate out of their own will, and were literally turned off after each operation, and turned on when they were to be sent on the next operation. the robots have no clue how long between each operation, sometimes no clue where exactly they were, and who they were fighting and killing. anyways, they go on some hosed up operation where they have to assassinate some civilian or do some other morally questionable thing for moneyed interests, and the squad realize they aren't being used to fight for america or whatever, and are being used to do illegal wetworks (is that the term?) for corporations. i think a good BM type ending would be the robots breaking free of their controllers by outwitting and fighting them in a glorious action sequence and then going free, so theres a crack squad of former special forces operators on the loose on a revenge spree against the corrupt ones who sent them to do wrong. or i don't know, there might be a better ending for this particular scenario that's more BM. and to make a general reply to goons from many many pages ago who were talking about callister and black museum retreading themes of digital consciousness from before; i am interested in the themes of whether digital consciousness ought to be treated as real and what are the implications of that if you do, and the moral impact of what happens when you don't treat them as real humans. it's pretty easy to accept digital consciousness as real humanity in san junipero, but i've seen goons dismiss the digital consciousness of the death row prisoner in black museum as just a simple digital copy with no moral rights and whatever is done to him having no real moral import (and i admit anyone who thinks this is stupid, but there are people who think it). but i prefer the episodes that make you think about the ethics of treating fully conscious digital copies of humans as not-human or less-than-human, because there are plenty of times in history where many humans were dismissed as non-humans and fit for slavery etc. what does it mean when you turn fully human consciousness and have them be your game AI like in uss callister, and treat them as having no more ethical rights as a game AI program would on one hand, and still punish them brutally for what someone who really isn't them did? i think there's a lot to think about on the topic of digital consciousness alone, and goons who're saying that revisiting the topic in callister and in black museum is not bringing a new perspective on a topic that is expansive and can allow for a billion original takes are fundamentally wrong. loving san junipero was a retread on the idea of digital consciousness and nobody complained. callister and black museum are great because they're about the tension between real humans and digital humans, which carries on from white christmas, where that matter was explored in the context of law enforcement and justice. san junipero didn't have that aspect to it so i consider it the weakest episode about digital consciousness yet, except it just made it more obvious that BM at its core considers digital consciousness to be equivalent to humanity, although it's theme was more more about the fakeness of virtual reality.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:13
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Away all Goats posted:Yeah I had a good laugh at the blind baby and the subsequent reveal that the cops can just pull memories out of animals too. The dumbest part is that the baby never even saw her. Even if the baby wasn't blind, she never went into its room, and the baby probably never even heard her voice. If she was going to kill the baby anyway, all she had to do was just never go into its room and just leave the house. Then they would never have known it was her.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:21
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FireWorksWell posted:There's something magical about the baby reveal for me. I shouldn't have laughed so much from this episode, but the lead just made the whole episode work for me. I wanna see Crocodile lady go through Metalhead
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Jan 7, 2018 07:24
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I'm just picturing her dealing with dogs like that one statue of the dude throwing babies
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Jan 7, 2018 07:27
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Cojawfee posted:The dumbest part is that the baby never even saw her. Even if the baby wasn't blind, she never went into its room, and the baby probably never even heard her voice. If she was going to kill the baby anyway, all she had to do was just never go into its room and just leave the house. Then they would never have known it was her. right but she would've had that nagging doubt otherwise, like an actual human being would. also the guinea pig saw her, so i mean
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Jan 7, 2018 07:29
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Fututor Magnus posted:i had an idea for a black mirror episode and i thought i'd put it here because where else could i write about it where people would give a poo poo and also See if Van Damme will star in it, as some sort of soldier... an almost universal soldier if you will.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:29
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Fututor Magnus posted:
If a premise like this trips your trigger then you should read Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan. I think Netflix is making a show out of it too.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:29
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TomViolence posted:right but she would've had that nagging doubt otherwise, like an actual human being would. also the guinea pig saw her, so i mean The guinea pig was in the baby's room though, if she didn't go in there to kill the baby she would have been fine. Baby would have just starved to death bawling her eyes out and no one would know who was there.
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Jan 7, 2018 07:43
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