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Best producer/showrunner? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| Verity Lambert |
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30 | 15.31% |
| Barry Letts |
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7 | 3.57% |
| Phillip Hinchcliffe |
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32 | 16.33% |
| John Nathan-Turner |
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6 | 3.06% |
| Russell T Davies |
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33 | 16.84% |
| Steven Moffat |
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50 | 25.51% |
| Chris Chibnall (I am from the future) |
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38 | 19.39% |
| Total: | 196 votes | ||
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2house2fly posted:The other reference to the Valeyard was the Great Intelligence in Name Of The Doctor. I suppose since the Doctor isn't actually the Valeyard, the point of using it there was to imply Mr G Intelligence didn't know quite as much about the Doctor as he thought. Also someone somewhere outside the show (in an interview maybe? Or spinoff comic?) implied that the clone Doctor from Journey's End was the Valeyard It was a comic that implied it but then backed away from it.
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Jan 7, 2018 04:39
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2house2fly posted:Also someone somewhere outside the show (in an interview maybe? Or spinoff comic?) implied that the clone Doctor from Journey's End was the Valeyard The IDW comic story The Forgotten had a villain that initially presented as Ten-2 with a Masterish goatee calling itself the Valeyard that eventually turned out to be a parasite latched onto the Doctor while he was passed out in the Tardis kinda like the facehugger things in Last Christmas.
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Jan 7, 2018 04:42
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Okay watched Love and Monsters. I can see why people hated it, but it honestly wasn't that bad. It a comical episode with a sad ending for the group in whole. Poor girl being forced to live forever as a stone slab is going to suck...I bet she and Cassandra probably met at some point in the future.
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Jan 7, 2018 04:47
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I liked how Elton goes after Jackie with the intention of trying to make a connection with her and gain her trust, and she's instantly chatting him up before he can get two words out. Also the joke about the planet the villain's from being called "Clom"
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Jan 7, 2018 04:52
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DoctorWhat posted:Getting drunk at Alex Kingston's wedding and berating her for "betraying" him by appearing opposite Capaldi. Holy poo poo, I knew the story about him going to Moffat and telling him not to write River kissing other doctors and enjoyed that Moffat then went and wrote the episode where she has several other spouses but I did not know about that follow up. What the gently caress.
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Jan 7, 2018 05:03
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corn in the bible posted:You just think that because the monster looks like Ian Levine The monster was based on Ian Levine (and the Slitheen quite likely named after him)
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Jan 7, 2018 05:16
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DoctorWhat posted:Getting drunk at Alex Kingston's wedding and berating her for "betraying" him by appearing opposite Capaldi. quote:“He was very cross with me,” laughs Kingston when Smith learned about River Song's Christmas special return, “and on my wedding day! I hadn't told him, I hadn't told anybody. And he found out. I don't want to say what he said, but he was cross! If she’s laughing about it in a RadioTimes interview I doubt this was serious.
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Jan 7, 2018 05:28
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Yeah can we get some other examples of his "gross'"behaviour?
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Jan 7, 2018 05:29
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Rirse posted:Poor girl being forced to live forever as a stone slab is going to suck... Yeah it sure does
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Jan 7, 2018 06:24
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there was a Trial of the Valeyard audio which i really enjoyed. especially six not realising what's happening until a fair way into the precedings
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Jan 7, 2018 10:12
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I also remember Amy's Choice having an implication that the Dream Lord was a sort of proto-Valeyard, but that might have been a fan theory I've confused with canon. Wouldn't be the first time. Love and Monsters is a pretty good episode if you cut out that one line, imo.
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Jan 7, 2018 11:19
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From memory The Doctor said it was a subconscious representation of his negative thoughts and feelings, and after getting rid of the dust that inadvertently caused it to manifest, he still sees the Dream Lord momentarily in his reflection. That could be as straightforward as showing the viewer that these negative thoughts and feelings didn't just go away, but I dig the idea that it was an early manifestation of the Valeyard.
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Jan 7, 2018 11:44
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I don't really care for the Valeyard as a concept, but I remember enjoying the Master's "gently caress this, there is ONE twisted mirror image of the Doctor allowed and I GOT HERE FIRST" reaction quite a lot at the time. (I like the Anthony Ainley version of the Master probably a lot more than he deserves.)
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Jan 7, 2018 13:21
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On the same note I loved his final conversation with Missy - Master: I will never side with the Doctor!" Missy: Yes, you will..." Totally turned their dynamic on it's head - at the start of the story, the Master is all "Do you really think the Doctor will be friends with you after what [I/You] just did to Bill?" and then Missy at the end is all "You will change. That cannot be avoided. Even if we die here, we'll die on his side."
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Jan 7, 2018 13:27
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I'm generally okay with the concept, but I will only accept the Valeyard returning if it is after a season-long Bad Wolf-style arc words puzzle, only it's people named stuff like Graveyard, Backyard and Knackers' Yard. The Doctor never mentions it until when the Valeyard actually turns up and they just respond with an 'oh yeah, duh, I saw you coming, you weren't subtle'.
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Jan 7, 2018 13:27
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Rhyno posted:Yeah can we get some other examples of his "gross'"behaviour? Well, he did choose to appear in Terminator Genisys of his own free will...
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Jan 7, 2018 13:35
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docbeard posted:I don't really care for the Valeyard as a concept, but I remember enjoying the Master's "gently caress this, there is ONE twisted mirror image of the Doctor allowed and I GOT HERE FIRST" reaction quite a lot at the time. Ainley gets a lot of poo poo but I like that his incarnation is mostly just trying to gently caress with people, and the Doctor in particular. Delgado wanted to rule everything, Pratt/Beevers was desperate to live and Ainley is just this grinning Cheshire cat of bastardry. The King's Demons is great - "I'm putting a robot on the throne to be a dick so there's a revolution and therefore no Magna Carta!" is just gloriously dickish and Ainley plays it brilliantly. And then in Survival we get reminded that actually, he's a pretty good actor and we get to see the Master that would shank you and everyone you care about just to stay alive for five more minutes.
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Jan 7, 2018 13:36
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Yvonmukluk posted:Well, he did choose to appear in Terminator Genisys of his own free will... To his credit on that one, he was promised sequels in which he'd be playing a major role. Not his fault that didn't pan out.
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Jan 7, 2018 13:39
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Fil5000 posted:Ainley gets a lot of poo poo but I like that his incarnation is mostly just trying to gently caress with people, and the Doctor in particular. Delgado wanted to rule everything, Pratt/Beevers was desperate to live and Ainley is just this grinning Cheshire cat of bastardry. The King's Demons is great - "I'm putting a robot on the throne to be a dick so there's a revolution and therefore no Magna Carta!" is just gloriously dickish and Ainley plays it brilliantly. His smug "What makes you think I want your forgiveness?" to the High Council in The Five Doctors is one of my favorite moments of the entire series.
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Jan 7, 2018 14:11
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jivjov posted:To his credit on that one, he was promised sequels in which he'd be playing a major role. Not his fault that didn't pan out. I still say that based on the cards on the table at the time, Smith just had some awful luck with what movie he hitched himself to. Mainly I say that when comparing to its competition, because there was a comparable movie released and so presumably in production around the same time. You want to break into the international market as a big movie star, a big well-known action franchise is a solid way to go, and Genisys looked like the horse to back there. Terminator's history hadn't been the best, but this one was backed by both on-screen and behind-the-scenes talent from the originals and a bunch of skilled people making it, that can't go wrong! Especially when its greatest potential competition is also their best comparison as to how strong Genisys is; you had this new Jurassic Park movie coming too (a series with a similarly shaky history, really), but that had some sitcom comedian in a starring role as he tried to shift into leading-man work, and a bunch of people who hadn't really done action movies or blockbusters making it. Surely that thing was gonna flop, and Genisys would go on to a greater series; maybe not astounding cinema, but it'll make money and be a platform to really launch a movie career from, right? How was anyone supposed to know it would turn out this way!? I'm not saying I was expecting Genisys to be a marvel of cinema, but I remember I was so sure it would be a good-not-great blockbuster that got similarly good-not-great sequels and Jurassic World was gonna crash and burn. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 14:22
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2house2fly posted:The other reference to the Valeyard was the Great Intelligence in Name Of The Doctor. I suppose since the Doctor isn't actually the Valeyard, the point of using it there was to imply Mr G Intelligence didn't know quite as much about the Doctor as he thought. Also someone somewhere outside the show (in an interview maybe? Or spinoff comic?) implied that the clone Doctor from Journey's End was the Valeyard Since The Valeyard was supposed to come between his "12th and Final Incarnation" his spot to appear would have been when 10 the Second regenerated into Smith, which in a retcon way justifies 10's maudlin dragging hs feet at regenerating. Maybe you could still handwave 11 turning into him if he'd tried to kludge a new incarnation without the Time Lords giving him a new regeneration cycle. That might make a good Unbound--a desparate 11 trying to cheat death at Trenzalore having a disatrous consequence. A Doctor version of what the Master has always tried to do since Pratt/Beevers, stealing Tremas' body, and CGI Snake. At this point you can headcannon that the GI and Infinite Claras' manipulation of the Doctor's timestream changed things enough that the Valeyard never appeared. Astroman fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jan 7, 2018 |
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Jan 7, 2018 15:33
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Terminator seems like a good place to jump to from Doctor Who, since it's a series about a time war
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Jan 7, 2018 15:39
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Astroman posted:Since The Valeyard was supposed to come between his "12th and Final Incarnation" his spot to appear would have been when 10 the Second regenerated into Smith, which in a retcon way justifies 10's maudlin dragging hs feet at regenerating. Maybe you could still handwave 11 turning into him if he'd tried to kludge a new incarnation without the Time Lords giving him a new regeneration cycle. That might make a good Unbound--a desparate 11 trying to cheat death at Trenzalore having a disatrous consequence. A Doctor version of what the Master has always tried to do since Pratt/Beevers, stealing Tremas' body, and CGI Snake. There's another possibility, though. We know that the Time Lords, prior to granting the Smith Doctor more regenerations, believed Capaldi's Doctor to be Thirteen (Day of the Doctor), for fairly obvious reasons (counting the War Doctor but not the Metacrisis 10). Presumably they know better after granting the Doctor more regenerations because they did that themselves. The Master speaking at the Trial presumably knew what the Time Lords did pre-Time War, meaning pre-Night of the Doctor. Granting that, the Valeyard could actually be a byproduct of the additional regenerations granted the Smith Doctor, or of an event that happened to the Smith Doctor prior to his regeneration. If his production means he lacks the capacity to regenerate, wanting to take the Doctor's still makes some sense (though frankly, it's more a battle for identity than a desire to perpetuate himself as the Time Lords could just grant him new regenerations without taking them from the Doctor... unless that's how they always have to do it). Given how indiscriminately the Smith Doctor was hurling around Artron energy at the end of his life, an inadvertant and partial metacrisis event seems plausible, and if the Time Lords juiced him up enough he might not even count the Valeyard as a regeneration. If you really want to make it lurid, have an injured Dalek suffused with Artron energy regenerate into the Valeyard, though that's hardly necessary to account for his hatred of the Doctor.
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Jan 7, 2018 16:11
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The Valeyard isn't actually the Doctor, he's just all the negativity and darker impulses the Doctor has repressed over his life that somehow manifests itself as a new being. He isn't actually a regeneration.
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Jan 7, 2018 16:42
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if we fight like animals we die like animals if we fight like animals we die like animals
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Jan 7, 2018 18:56
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Davros1 posted:The Valeyard isn't actually the Doctor, he's just all the negativity and darker impulses the Doctor has repressed over his life that somehow manifests itself as a new being. He isn't actually a regeneration. I've always liked the idea of a Dark Doctor that isn't the Master Although from a certain perspective, I suppose even the Doctor's benevolent actions are considered horrifying from another race's perspective, hence his numerous titles that are often enough to make even the Daleks step back - The Doctor: Now. We all know there’s an elephant in the room. Amy: I have to be this size, I’m having a baby. The Doctor: No. No. The hormones seem real, but no. Is anyone going to mention Rory’s ponytail. You hold him down, I’ll cut it off? Rory: This from a man in a bowtie. The Doctor: Bowties are cool. I should rewatch Eleven's run at some point...
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Jan 7, 2018 19:33
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The wedding story seems pretty transparently to be a lighthearted joke about how much Matt Smith liked the part to me. I think his performance will lose more than some Doctors without his cartoonish face and movement, but I wouldn't mind some Matt Smith Big Finish. I'll probably be dead before I ever get to it, though; I haven't even heard the Tenth Doctor stuff yet. Capaldi should take a break from the role both for himself and because I think it's better when we've had some time away from a Doctor before they return, but I think he'll come back in awhile, particularly with how easy Big Finish seems to make it for everybody. I'd be happier if they could get Eccleston to do a few. Maybe there's a way I can listen to Big Finish a little while I'm endlessly rocking my kid to sleep in the wee hours of the night after they're born in August.
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Jan 7, 2018 20:31
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Without seeing the video of the wedding thing it's hard to tell if it was him being a drunken embarrassment, or if he was playfully teasing his friend. I spent 60 seconds googling it and I couldn't find any other details. Given that the only source we have has Alex Kingston laughing about the idea, it's probably playful teasing.
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Jan 7, 2018 20:38
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Yeah as far as I can tell being 'very cross' in england can translate as anything from raging fury to good natured sarcasm.
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Jan 7, 2018 20:42
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M_Gargantua posted:Yeah as far as I can tell being 'very cross' in england can translate as anything from raging fury to good natured sarcasm. It certainly seems like a far cry from Moffat screaming "YOU ARE ERASED FROM DOCTOR WHO  " in a drunken rant at Caroline Skinner because she dumped him.
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Jan 7, 2018 20:56
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Vinylshadow posted:Although from a certain perspective, I suppose even the Doctor's benevolent actions are considered horrifying from another race's perspective, “There was a goblin, or a trickster, or a warrior. A nameless, terrible thing, soaked in the blood of a billion galaxies. The most feared being in all the cosmos. Nothing could stop it or hold it or reason with it. One day it would just drop out of the sky and tear down your world...”
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Jan 7, 2018 22:17
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Davros1 posted:The Valeyard isn't actually the Doctor, he's just all the negativity and darker impulses the Doctor has repressed over his life that somehow manifests itself as a new being. He isn't actually a regeneration. Yeah, while I used to like the idea of us seeing the Doctor dread his final regeneration because he thought he'd be doomed to become The Valeyard, it seems more and more that what the Master said is literally the case--The Valeyard is not an actual Doctor.
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Jan 7, 2018 22:23
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some further evolution of the Dream Lord does seem like the best fit
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Jan 7, 2018 22:27
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Astroman posted:Yeah, while I used to like the idea of us seeing the Doctor dread his final regeneration because he thought he'd be doomed to become The Valeyard, it seems more and more that what the Master said is literally the case--The Valeyard is not an actual Doctor. This is why it makes perfect sense that it's Rose's Doctor. Ten was really Eleven and he regenerated into himself who was really Twelve. During the regeneration he made a version of himself that was still all anger and fury and supposedly needed Rose to calm him down. This version of him is also mortal and conveniently in an alternative dimension until the story needs him. Moffat probably never touched the Valeyard because you'll simply never get a better explanation than that. We've already seen the Doctor dread his final regeneration, knowing that he will die next time, and that's Ten's. Moffat made it so that his fury in The End of Time and his maudlin goodbye was really the act of a man who knew this was his last go around. He's last chance to stop death and see his friends. "I dont want to go." Indeed.
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Jan 7, 2018 23:40
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docbeard posted:I don't really care for the Valeyard as a concept, but I remember enjoying the Master's "gently caress this, there is ONE twisted mirror image of the Doctor allowed and I GOT HERE FIRST" reaction quite a lot at the time. or perhaps, docbeard... it is you who are liked a lot more than he deserves. Mwa ha. Mwahaha. MWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Jan 8, 2018 01:21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiKrZdJXQ14 Dude who can change his face travelling in time and space: good! Dude who can change his face travelling in time and space becoming a woman: not good!
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Jan 8, 2018 05:14
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I still love that Ainley's Master realized that the universe was falling into Entropy because of HIS actions, agreed to help the Doctor find a fix for it, and the moment they had one.... he jumped onto a universal microphone and started trying to ransom it off  TinTower posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiKrZdJXQ14 I just decided soon after the announcement that I wasn't going to pay any attention to this kind of nonsense. It's just so far beyond pathetic it isn't worth the precious seconds of your life you'd lose to get confirmation that they're an idiot. I'll just assume that anybody I see who says anything like this is being ironic or deliberately stupid for a laugh because I can't accept the alternative.
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Jan 8, 2018 05:52
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Jerusalem posted:I still love that Ainley's Master realized that the universe was falling into Entropy because of HIS actions, agreed to help the Doctor find a fix for it, and the moment they had one.... he jumped onto a universal microphone and started trying to ransom it off Agreed. I watched 10 seconds of it and just decided that he was a gross and unlikeable misanthrope, and I turned it off before I contributed to his view count.
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Jan 8, 2018 05:57
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Hey, there's a new review of the Christmas special out by the guy who did that Sherlock/Moffat retrospective. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtPZ96oHH-4 I agree with the broad strokes but not some of the details, like Rusty the Dalek being a metaphor for RTD and his showrunning rather than just a reference to his name (it seems too uncharitable to Moffat) and being too harsh on The Christmas Invasion, and it spends a bit too long making a gag of Cyberwoman at the end. Jerusalem posted:I just decided soon after the announcement that I wasn't going to pay any attention to this kind of nonsense. It's just so far beyond pathetic it isn't worth the precious seconds of your life you'd lose to get confirmation that they're an idiot. 
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Jan 8, 2018 09:01
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Finally watched the Xmas special I think the main point to take away are that Moffat in particular* shouldn’t be his own script editor. Chunky black marker pen could have done wonders for 10 minutes of the Doctor talking to himself in the TARDIS. Also that’s 3 in a row of I don’t want to regenerate then the TARDIS blows up. Change the tune please. Jokes were hit and miss. Like “stop boasting” or “smacked arse” vs “all woman are like glass”. Is this the last time we’ll see Gatiss too? *really no one should
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Jan 8, 2018 09:46
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