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Nostalgia4Dogges posted:co-op good? Co-op bad
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Jan 7, 2018 09:11
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| # ? Jun 1, 2024 07:38 |
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Well, the only moons I have to get are Darker Side, jump rope, volleyball and the final bound bowl race Kill me. At least the hint art stuff let you feel clever, even if I had to look up one or two of them (I still have exactly zero idea of what the Dark Side art for Peproni plaza was trying to show me) 
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Jan 8, 2018 17:48
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ManlyGrunting posted:Well, the only moons I have to get are Darker Side, jump rope, volleyball and the final bound bowl race If that’s the one I’m thinking of, it’s a Highlights magazine style spot-the-difference puzzle. You then butt pound where the difference is located.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:00
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Charlie Bobson posted:Co-op bad Unless you are speedrunning, then it's kind of amazing: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/214466987?t=05h34m18s Honestly, it's pretty serviceable and way better than both Galaxy's 2p (not that it was a high bar to clear to begin with).
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Jan 8, 2018 18:23
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Getting the jump rope talkatoo glitch to work is way more satisfying than actually pressing A 100 times.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:41
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJx5xt2cB0
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Jan 11, 2018 22:08
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I swear, that video dissolves into "This game is for babies, why can't the other reviewers see that?" about a third of the way through.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:36
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andipossess posted:I swear, that video dissolves into "This game is for babies, why can't the other reviewers see that?" about a third of the way through. It devolved into moon accounting a third of the way through.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:38
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Jesus, 2 hours of some guy mispronouncing Mario. How do people even get his name wrong he says his own name in almost every game since '64.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:48
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I sure hate any form of celebration or exploration in my games too
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Jan 11, 2018 22:56
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I mean, I can't deny that there are a lot of silly moons. There really are. It's a game I have a great time with, but Anderson isn't wrong that there's a huge number of filler moons. It's just that I think he act like collecting 100% of the moons is the Right Way To Play the game, but frankly that's like thinking the intended way to play Breath of the Wild is finding all of the korok seeds. The huge number of moons is there for the same reason there's a huge number of korok seeds: so you can miss literally hundreds of them and still find enough to finish the game. Yes, you're going to burn out if you decide you have to collect every single one of them before you can say you "beat" the game. And maybe that does count as a flaw. But y'know what's cool? There are a couple of categories of moon activities that I really don't enjoy, so I'm just skipping those and I'm still most of the way to the 500 I need to reach the final bonus level. I'd call it more of a trade-off than a flaw: they're trading the impact of each individual moon for enabling the highest degree possible of player freedom in determining what activities are the fun ones.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:02
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The filler moons aren't really filler. They're there so progression isn't gated behind skill that's beyond what kids are capable of. They allow the difficulty curve to be adjusted for children; they do those "sillier", "easier" moons, progress, learn more about the game, and get better, and then go back for the others.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:16
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TFRazorsaw posted:The filler moons aren't really filler. They're there so progression isn't gated behind skill that's beyond what kids are capable of. They allow the difficulty curve to be adjusted for children; they do those "sillier", "easier" moons, progress, learn more about the game, and get better, and then go back for the others. To be fair to Joseph Anderson, he does acknowledge that the game is clearly a fantastic kids' game pretty early on. His complaints largely have to do with approaching the game looking for something that also challenges him as an adult who is a long-time Mario player. But even from that perspective, I think the easy moons fill a purpose, like I mentioned above: they let someone like me, who doesn't enjoy some of the game's activities, just outright skip those, while also missing tons and tons of hidden moons, and still find enough moons to progress. I bet I'd hate it if I scoured every kingdom for every single moon in a big marathon gaming session, but the way I'm playing, it works out just fine. I've noticed some hidden moons in rocks or butt pounding spots, but I haven't felt like I had to hunt around for every single one of them. When I notice them, they're bonuses. When I don't, that's fine because I'm gonna get another moon soon anyway. I don't know if I'd say Anderson is wrong so much that I just don't share his priorities. Harrow fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jan 11, 2018 |
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Jan 11, 2018 23:23
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Yeah he makes decent points even if he is being a little contrarian. I do agree with what he says about how the moon gating punishes you for exploring early.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:24
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I do think he has a good point about a lot of the challenge room/"shrine" challenges being kind of underwhelming. A lot of them are really fun, but there are some pretty  ones there as well, and they don't really seem to ramp up in complexity the way I'd expect from a Mario game, especially in the post-game.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:27
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Anderson is a contrarian, it's good to watch his videos because of that but you can't take them at face value
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Jan 11, 2018 23:33
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I don't know if I'd say he's just a contrarian, but I think he does take things that I agree are flaws and turn them into something that sounds game-ruining. It's not that he accentuates the negative for comedy (Yahtzee-style) or outrage or anything, I just think his priorities in game criticism weigh some things a lot more heavily than I do. But I know that already, so that's how I go into his videos. I remember watching his Breath of the Wild video and, while I disagreed with some of his critiques, I very much agreed with others (especially his whole section on how the combat balance is all kinds of hosed up). It's just that those things drag the game down a lot more for him than they do for me. So when I watch his videos, I have to go in expecting that he's going to talk about things that I don't like about games in a way that makes me go, "Man, I agree mostly but I still think you're being kind of harsh."
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Jan 11, 2018 23:43
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Harrow posted:I mean, I can't deny that there are a lot of silly moons. There really are. It's a game I have a great time with, but Anderson isn't wrong that there's a huge number of filler moons. This is something he addresses specifically in the video (go to 48:17). tl;dr is basically that korok seeds in BotW can truly be considered side content in that there is so much more to do in that game that doesn't involve them. In Odyssey the moons are the reward for everything you do so you can't just make a decision to ignore them and you can't save yourself from getting moons that waste your time because 1. You don't know which moons will be enjoyable and which won't and 2. There aren't enough non-filler moons to get you to the 501 moons you need.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:43
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BattleHamster posted:This is something he addresses specifically in the video (go to 48:17). 1. Yeah, that part is fair, especially with things like the timer challenges or the challenge room things. And I agree with his later points about how a lot of the platforming challenges, the rooms he calls "shrines," are underwhelming or have big missed opportunities. 2. I didn't say there were, but rather that there are so many of those "filler" moons that you can miss a huge number of them and still find enough to get you to 501, or at least get close before you have to start seriously scouring maps. You definitely can't completely ignore them, but I've found quite a lot of them on my way to the more meaningful moons just by going, "Hey, what's that glowing thing over there?" Late in the video, he does address that point, too: if the point is to have enough moons that you can miss a lot of them and still progress, maybe the answer is to just have fewer moons (and require fewer moons). And I think that's perfectly fair. I do wonder what Odyssey would look like if there were 120 moons, most of the repeated, easy, and/or freebie moons were taken out, and you needed like 30 to get the normal ending, 60 to get to the Dark Side, and 90-100 to get to the Darker Side, something like that. I don't really know. (They'd probably need to ditch multi-moons--it's not necessary to give you three moons at once when the total number you need is a lot lower--but that's a reasonable change to make.)
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Jan 11, 2018 23:50
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I don't know why people are so into removing "filler" moons. Give me more of them, I say. I'd rather have them than that stupid moon with the scrolling background and bullet bills and gravity. It was fun for me to attempt to figure out where they were via increasingly obvious clues--and there was one that still took me forever despite having both Toad and Bird clues (stupid flowing sands hint). Also, gotta say, I hate how often he brings up trying to "find the fun". It irked me so hard, and I can't really say why.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:15
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I wish there were 2970 moons.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:23
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andipossess posted:I don't know why people are so into removing "filler" moons. Give me more of them, I say. I'd rather have them than that stupid moon with the scrolling background and bullet bills and gravity. It was fun for me to attempt to figure out where they were via increasingly obvious clues--and there was one that still took me forever despite having both Toad and Bird clues (stupid flowing sands hint). that flowing sands one actually represents a good example of one of the only problems I had with the game: moons where you know pretty much exactly what you're looking for but the way to get it is so esoteric you second-guess yourself. I found the entry to that moon straight away because I noticed the weird black line under the bricks, but then I tried to go under it and died so I assumed it was just an odd texture or whatever. Then I went looking for like 45 minutes in the area trying to find it until finally I caved and looked it up online and oh, I was supposed to jump to stay above the sand even though you literally can't see Mario and it looks like there is a ceiling that would block it. That moon would have been way better if it was exactly the same but zoned you into the room as soon as you got under the lip.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:41
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andipossess posted:I don't know why people are so into removing "filler" moons. Give me more of them, I say. I'd rather have them than that stupid moon with the scrolling background and bullet bills and gravity. It was fun for me to attempt to figure out where they were via increasingly obvious clues--and there was one that still took me forever despite having both Toad and Bird clues (stupid flowing sands hint). It depends on what you want. I'm not sure I want to watch through a 2 hour long criticism, but my own issue with the game is so much of what I did felt hollow because much of it was essentially completely trivial to do. About halfway through I realised I wasn't having that much fun, but powered to the postgame anyway, buoyed by the occasional moon that had a decent premise behind it. When I did get to the postgame, most of it wasn't actually difficult and what was difficult had less to do with creative design than it did clunky execution. Like, yes, long jumping perfectly 15 times in a row is difficult from an execution standpoint, but it's honestly not that interesting to do. Exploration is good and non-linearity can be good as well, but I feel like Odyssey decided to go for as much breadth as possible at the expense of any real depth. Interestingly enough I also wasn't all that hot on 3D world because it was essentially completely linear which I also think isn't really the best way to take Mario.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:55
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abigserve posted:that flowing sands one actually represents a good example of one of the only problems I had with the game: moons where you know pretty much exactly what you're looking for but the way to get it is so esoteric you second-guess yourself. I found the entry to that moon straight away because I noticed the weird black line under the bricks, but then I tried to go under it and died so I assumed it was just an odd texture or whatever. Then I went looking for like 45 minutes in the area trying to find it until finally I caved and looked it up online and oh, I was supposed to jump to stay above the sand even though you literally can't see Mario and it looks like there is a ceiling that would block it. I don't actually agree with that despite how long it took me to find it. 'Cause I did eventually find it (and all the other moons) without looking it up. That's just the one that stuck in my mind, and I kinda wish there were more like that. When I spotted the small lip, I had a huge "Ohhhh!" moment, then I smacked myself in the head a couple hundred times for forgetting that that was a thing Mario's been able to do since Mario 2, and you even do something similar for a secret exit in Mario World.
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Jan 12, 2018 01:18
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I committed to watching some of it. Man gave a shout out to Space Station Silicon Valley, he's good in my book. Edit: Wait Mushroom Kingdom was available from the start? Edit2:  Edit3: Yeah I broadly agree with all of this. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 01:40
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andipossess posted:You can double jump all you like. If you tap the button just, the single and double jump will actually have the same duration, resulting in a normal-double-normal-double pattern. nice
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Jan 12, 2018 03:12
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Natural 20 posted:I committed to watching some of it. Space station Silicon Valley was the first game I thought of when I saw footage of the capture mechanic
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Jan 12, 2018 04:55
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Harrow posted:Late in the video, he does address that point, too: if the point is to have enough moons that you can miss a lot of them and still progress, maybe the answer is to just have fewer moons (and require fewer moons). And I think that's perfectly fair. I do wonder what Odyssey would look like if there were 120 moons, most of the repeated, easy, and/or freebie moons were taken out, and you needed like 30 to get the normal ending, 60 to get to the Dark Side, and 90-100 to get to the Darker Side, something like that. I don't really know. It would look like Mario 64. That kind of defeats one of the core premises of the game, that you can poke around in a corner/check out an unusual object/sit next to a man on a bench and get rewarded for your curiosity. The way to make that work in a satisfying way is to make so many that you don't need to find any particular one. If there were fewer moons they'd have to remove that stuff entirely or the game would have a reputation for being obtuse, like "there's a moon you only get by sitting on a particular park bench how am I supposed to know that?!" It's only a "problem" if you decide you need to clear off the entire checklist anyway despite not wanting to do so or enjoying it, apparently.
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Jan 12, 2018 13:47
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Speaking of, Park bench Moon was probably one of the top ten moons for me. Guy just wanted some company  Also, I haven't seen this mentioned, but what do people think of Luigi's Balloon World? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KEpdUKtEFM "It's like a new form of objective-based speedrunning" made me cringe pretty hard. It looks like a fun little hide and seek thing, but nothing really game-changing.
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Jan 12, 2018 16:21
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Multiplayer hide and seek seems cool. Do they give you a hint to where the balloon is, or do you just search until you see it?
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Jan 12, 2018 16:23
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abigserve posted:Anderson is a contrarian, it's good to watch his videos because of that but you can't take them at face value He's gotten downright clickbaity with some of this stuff. He hated Inside, but loved Little Nightmares and his only real explanation is "I just did" and then he talked for 20 minutes about subjective reality. Anderson basically has one or two really good video reviews (the Witness and his Uncharted ones I like) and I enjoyed his synopsis of Edith Finch, but poo poo like his Bloodborne video sort of demonstrates a petulance I find off-putting. Like, no dude, Bloodborne is not "broken" because you suck at fighting hunters, you just loving suck at fighting hunters. Learn 2 parry. He tears apart No Man's Sky pretty good, but that's not exactly hard to do. I also can't abide him saying exploration in Zelda is better than Mario when Mario's worlds offer far more contextual exploration and challenge than Zelda's does. Sure you still warp away to game zones, but there's a sense that the worlds you are in are real within their context, you do stuff that makes sense there -- you become octopus in the beach zone, you ride a scooter in Metro zone, etc.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:12
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Tender Bender posted:It's only a "problem" if you decide you need to clear off the entire checklist anyway despite not wanting to do so or enjoying it, apparently. Yeah, I agree with that part for sure. If you're going for a total completionist run and refuse to move on until you do, this abundance of easy or obscure moons would burn you out pretty hard. But if your approach is just to try random poo poo whenever it occurs to you, hey look, you just got a moon for that, cool! What happened with Anderson, I think, is that he took the leap from "hey, this random thing I did gave me a moon" to "god drat it, now I have to try this exact action every time because it might give a moon and I'm clearly supposed to find them all." I guess that's a reasonable leap to take, but it isn't one that I took. When I found a random moon inside of a rock, I didn't take that as a sign that I was supposed to go kick every single rock I saw forever now--I was just like, "Oh hey, a moon, cool." Same for when I found an NPC with a living hat and got a moon for it--now I know I can look out for that kind of thing and get a moon if I notice it, but I don't feel like I have to scour every kingdom for that now. I suspect someone like George Weidman (Super Bunnyhop) would have the same reaction, too, given how much he hated the collectibles in Doom 2016 for slowing down his shooting rampages because he had to go backtrack and find them all. Same for the shrines in BotW, though hopefully he didn't put himself through scouring Hyrule for every korok seed.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:23
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There was no way I could watch this for two hours but I stopped when he pronounced it "mare-io bros"
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Jan 12, 2018 17:24
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You fools wanting LESS moons. I want more moons. If there was DLC that just added a hundred moons to each of the existing worlds I'd eat that poo poo up. Just stop collecting the moons if you don't like the filler moons you savages
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Jan 12, 2018 17:25
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Macaluso posted:You fools wanting LESS moons. I want more moons. If there was DLC that just added a hundred moons to each of the existing worlds I'd eat that poo poo up. Just stop collecting the moons if you don't like the filler moons you savages A literal thing I did. Tell you what. Make a bunch of the filler moons into blue coins that you need to collect to break past certain blue coin barriers in the game. Make another set of the filler moons into Cappy tokens that allow cappy to possess creatures based on their strength. Keep the moons that are based around boss fights/challenge areas/minigames. Then plan Banjo Kazooie because it achieved this concept better 20 years ago.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:47
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Natural 20 posted:Tell you what. I too want less totally optional content in my games
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Jan 12, 2018 17:51
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Not all moons are created equal.
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Jan 12, 2018 17:55
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Natural 20 posted:A literal thing I did. Lol just don't collect the moons it's totally optional you don't need all the moons to beat the game
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Jan 12, 2018 18:00
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Natural 20 posted:A literal thing I did. yeah this sounds awful much like banjo kazooie
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Jan 12, 2018 18:08
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Natural 20 posted:A literal thing I did. lmfao if you unironically think banjo kazooie is better than mario odyssey
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Jan 12, 2018 18:14
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