|
cis autodrag posted:this news is a couple days old but fitting for the queer nerds thread: i was pretty close to trying to get in his lab and then i was like... wait.... but computer touching is funner i was pretty better off that way prolly but he good
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 12:54 |
|
|
from the Ben Barres article:quote:Born in 1954, he transitioned in 1997 at the age of 43. Before then, as an MIT undergraduate, he solved a hard math problem that had befuddled the rest of his virtually all-male class, only for his professor to suggest that his boyfriend must have done the work. i sometimes have a hard time deciding which pronouns to use when talking about a trans person in the past-tense. if that trans person prefers the male pronouns today but presented as a woman at the time the story took place, do you say "he" or "she"? from the standpoint of being as considerate as possible, you would say "he" as the article did. that seems like the safest choice. in many cases it wouldn't matter. but in this case, a naive reading of the 2nd sentence might have you believe he experienced discrimination as a gay man, when really he experienced discrimination as a woman. i had to read the sentence a couple times to make sure i grasped the intended meaning. i probably would have written something like this: quote:Born in 1954, he transitioned in 1997 at the age of 43. Before then, as an MIT undergraduate, she solved a hard math problem that had befuddled the rest of her virtually all-male class, only for her professor to suggest that her boyfriend must have done the work. is that ok? any clearer? too inconsiderate? are there better options i'm not thinking of? i know this is probably the least interesting and least relevant part of that article. but this past-tense pronoun question has been bugging me for a long time, and i thought this example did a good job of illustrating why.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 20:22
|
|
|
Helianthus Annuus posted:from the Ben Barres article: Gonna have to disagree. For me pronouns are key to my identity and being misgendered really hurts, and I definitely wouldn't want it to happen in an obituary article. Maybe say something like "Born in 1954, he transitioned in 1997 at the age of 43. Before then, as an MIT undergraduate and while presenting as feminine, he solved a hard math problem that had befuddled the rest of his virtually all-male class, only for his professor to suggest that his boyfriend must have done the work."
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 20:30
|
|
|
Helianthus Annuus posted:from the Ben Barres article: You should always use a person's current pronouns to refer to them when recounting past events unless they've explicitly given you permission not to. Hearing the wrong pronouns used is really loving painful for a lot of us and cis people can just suffer with bearing the cross of taking 5 extra seconds to understand a sentence.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:You should always use a person's current pronouns to refer to them when recounting past events unless they've explicitly given you permission not to. the way i had it explained to me was that we don't say "back when the earth was flat" to refer to the time everyone thought it was flat
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:the way i had it explained to me was that we don't say "back when the earth was flat" to refer to the time everyone thought it was flat I’m stealing this the next time I have to explain it. 😊
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 23:45
|
|
|
i had that same struggle when reading the chelsea manning wikipedia article, where it was quite confusing to see her referred to as female when discussing a time when she was presenting as male because the gender as which she was presenting was contextually really important, her being in the military and all eventually though i concluded that the wikipediphiles were just lovely authors and there was probably a better way to write it that both respects the person's pronouns and doesn't confuse you about how they were presenting and how that would have affected their story at the time Glazier posted:Maybe say something like "Born in 1954, he transitioned in 1997 at the age of 43. Before then, as an MIT undergraduate and while presenting as feminine, he solved a hard math problem that had befuddled the rest of his virtually all-male class, only for his professor to suggest that his boyfriend must have done the work." like this, yeah Cocoa Crispies posted:the way i had it explained to me was that we don't say "back when the earth was flat" to refer to the time everyone thought it was flat this is quite pithy as well
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2018 23:59
|
|
|
Cocoa Crispies posted:the way i had it explained to me was that we don't say "back when the earth was flat" to refer to the time everyone thought it was flat i mean people do say that though, i've certainly heard it plenty of times
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 00:09
|
|
|
i've said it myself but only in the context of a Back In My Day  /   bit
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:I identify pan even though I'm like 95 percent oriented toward women most of the time. There's men I think are good looking, but most of the time it's ruined when they start talking.  Helianthus Annuus posted:is that ok? any clearer? too inconsiderate? are there better options i'm not thinking of? Secondly, the effort, difficulty and danger of making these deep, existential corrections deserves some respect so use those preferred pronouns all the way back to the womb, thank you very much.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 01:00
|
|
|
Glazier posted:Gonna have to disagree. For me pronouns are key to my identity and being misgendered really hurts, and I definitely wouldn't want it to happen in an obituary article. Maybe say something like "Born in 1954, he transitioned in 1997 at the age of 43. Before then, as an MIT undergraduate and while presenting as feminine, he solved a hard math problem that had befuddled the rest of his virtually all-male class, only for his professor to suggest that his boyfriend must have done the work." cool, this seems best. in this case, it only takes four or five words to make the context clear to readers not in-the-know, while still being considerate to the subject. i was hoping someone thought of a way to pull this off without including the extra clause, but i guess the language isn't there yet
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 01:07
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:i had that same struggle when reading the chelsea manning wikipedia article, where it was quite confusing to see her referred to as female when discussing a time when she was presenting as male because the gender as which she was presenting was contextually really important, her being in the military and all the other problem with this article is that it contains plenty of quotes from people close to her using the contra-indicated pronouns. you can't really change the person's words and still keep the quotation marks, but in this case i think you can just put [sic] after the wrong pronoun to make it clear to readers that the person speaking goofed up E: i would have done this myself, but the article is protected Helianthus Annuus fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 01:11
|
|
|
Peeny Cheez posted:Just off the top of my head, there's the fact that there isn't really a line of demarcation to switch over from one to the other. It was always that way, it just wasn't recognized as being such. You wouldn't, in the same paragraph, refer to Pluto as a planet prior to 2006 and then a dwarf planet after. It was the same thing the whole time. thanks, i think i understand why i didn't see eye-to-eye with some of the other posters in this thread i was trying to use the pronouns to encode information about how people thought of the subject at the time. if i'm correctly understanding the replies in here, trans people don't recognize that usage as legitimate. instead, they use pronouns to encode information about gender identity, and because the subject is the arbiter of that gender identity, its more appropriate to use the preferred pronouns regardless of outward presentation. Helianthus Annuus fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jan 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 01:22
|
|
|
to address another part of that anecdote, I've always been conflicted about what being trans means about stereotypes and stuff. like I liked computers ever since I was a little girl* and I was a girl when I went to college so I always felt some pride about representing women in tech and defying society's biases about what women are capable of. but then people tell me that I actually had a man brain all along so maybe I was never defying people's prejudices at all? and now I'm a dude at work at my computer job but sometimes I still catch myself thinking like "gently caress those neckbeards, I'm great at my job" then remembering no one really has those negative expectations of me anymore. that all makes it sound really self centered and I'm not doing a good job of explaining it *my experience was that I was a little girl that grew up to be a man, I personally, and with no judgement toward or implications about the preferences of others, don't mind thinking of pre-transition as "back when I was a girl."
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 01:31
|
|
|
Helianthus Annuus posted:the other problem with this article is that it contains plenty of quotes from people close to her using the contra-indicated pronouns. you can't really change the person's words and still keep the quotation marks, but in this case i think you can just put [sic] after the wrong pronoun to make it clear to readers that the person speaking goofed up If I was running a news organization the style we would use would be to keep the quotes but disclaim and make clear we altered the pronouns or deadname. For example “Back when I first met [Stewart], [he] had the well earned reputation of being a hard worker.” Helianthus Annuus posted:thanks, i think i understand why i didn't see eye-to-eye with some of the other posters in this thread Exactly, I’ve always been a non-binary trans woman, even when I didn’t present as feminine. Gynocentric Regime fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jan 9, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 01:34
|
|
|
Helianthus Annuus posted:thanks, i think i understand why i didn't see eye-to-eye with some of the other posters in this thread You're making this too *beep boop, must convey informatics via syntax* Just think of it this way: who is the person you're talking about? That's who they always were, even if it was hidden. Throw away gender identity, if your dad called you JimBoy as a kid and you hate that poo poo and want to be called James, it'd be hosed up for an article to refer to you as JimBoy just because the article covers a time period during which your dad used that nickname.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 05:08
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:You're making this too *beep boop, must convey informatics via syntax* and another poster pointed out (rightly) that an obituary was a particularly bad example to pick
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2018 08:33
|
|
|
got a date with jodorowsky guy 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 19:22
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:got a date with jodorowsky guy nice! personally, i'd never be able to have a relationship with anyone who's unable to appreciate santa sangre.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 19:27
|
|
|
Iv is in my arm. No going back now. See you on the boob side guys.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 20:20
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Iv is in my arm. No going back now. See you on the boob side guys. breast of luck!
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 21:30
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Iv is in my arm. No going back now. See you on the boob side guys. perk up good and well soon!
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 21:36
|
|
|
dam you;r bobbies
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 21:37
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Iv is in my arm. No going back now. See you on the boob side guys. Best wishes for a safe and speedy operation!
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Iv is in my arm. No going back now. See you on the boob side guys. contitulations & boobulations!
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 01:47
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:Iv is in my arm. No going back now. See you on the boob side guys. wow, congrats on the top surgery, im excited for you i hope that everything goes well and that you're back soon to tell us
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:03
|
|
|
Owwwweeeeee Anesthesia sucks and I'm bleeding on a hotel bed lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:19
|
|
|
 but in a good way i hope
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:27
|
|
|
Recovery sucks but hopefully it all goes well. Also, a hotel?!
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:35
|
|
|
Synthbuttrange posted:Recovery sucks but hopefully it all goes well. Also, a hotel?! i'm gonna say -> america.txt also allow me to be the first to ask you to show bob
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:47
|
|
|
Sagebrush posted:i'm gonna say -> america.txt breast aug is usually an outpatient procedure (unless something's gone horribly wrong). quite often it won't even be done at a full on hospital because it doesn't need to be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:49
|
|
|
Synthbuttrange posted:Recovery sucks but hopefully it all goes well. Also, a hotel?! I traveled for this because there's no reputable surgeons where I live. I'll have to do it for all my surgeries. They're huge, but I'm now allowed to take the bra off so I can't see them fully yet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:07
|
|
|
cis autodrag posted:I traveled for this because there's no reputable surgeons where I live. I'll have to do it for all my surgeries. yay  Sagebrush posted:i'm gonna say -> america.txt eh you get kicked out here in socialist denmark too, if youre stable & theres no upcoming worries. its a good thing tbh, hospitals are a hotbed of germs & the longer you stay the more likely you are to get secondary infections.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:12
|
|
|
glad the surgery went ok  rest well
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:21
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:glad the surgery went ok yeah same. I was trying to make another boob joke but more important that you feel good soon. have fun with the bra shopping when it comes around.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:27
|
|
|
Shifty Pony posted:yeah same. I was trying to make another boob joke but more important that you feel good soon. i'll be honest so was i but i came up empty 
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:31
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:36
|
|
|
 Watching Sense8 and eating Panera. The worst part is honestly how tight everything is. I feel like i just boxed 10 rounds and then hit the bench press after. It's a subfascial implant so it's gonna take a minute for everything to stretch and fall in place. Thanks for all the good vibes y'all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:41
|
|
|
Congratulations on your huge boobs
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 12:54 |
|
|
cis autodrag posted:
i was wondering about how taut the skin would be, especially after the swelling hits. is there a stretch mark risk?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:47
|
|