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Al Borland Corp. posted:Not Captain Panaka. He did nothing wrong um you'll find that Captain Panaka had to be murdered by young Leia lest he reveal her secret parentage (this apparently happened in the new EU)
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Jan 8, 2018 17:48
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But... I trusted him!
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Jan 8, 2018 17:49
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sassassin posted:Everyone is an ally. I’m not sure about that, given that Palpatine executes Dooku, and then commandeers the Republic/Jedi armed forces. The OT would be rather different if we had Lord Sidious Of The Confederacy chasing Leia around with flying saucers and insectoid skeleton armies.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:05
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Waffles Inc. posted:um you'll find that Captain Panaka had to be murdered by young Leia lest he reveal her secret parentage Panaka was assassinated by the Partisans, not killed by Leia.
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Jan 8, 2018 18:08
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Waffles Inc. posted:um you'll find that Captain Panaka had to be murdered by young Leia lest he reveal her secret parentage Leia a fuxking poo poo
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Jan 8, 2018 19:18
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Waffles Inc. posted:um you'll find that Captain Panaka had to be murdered by young Leia lest he reveal her secret parentage drat they paul wellstoned him
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Jan 8, 2018 19:20
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Al Borland Corp. posted:But... I trusted him! quarsh.........is bad  also quarsh panaka is almost as good a name as sheev palpatine
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Jan 8, 2018 19:27
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Waffles Inc. posted:um you'll find that Captain Panaka had to be murdered by young Leia lest he reveal her secret parentage He was also a Moff so it was a political assassination
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Jan 8, 2018 20:14
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I finally watched The Force Awakens! Now I'm just two films away from being up to date with the Star Warses. Moviefight: an old man confronts his former protégé. 
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Jan 8, 2018 20:36
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josh04 posted:I finally watched The Force Awakens! Now I'm just two films away from being up to date with the Star Warses. Why would you put them side-by-side instead of one on top of the other
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Jan 8, 2018 22:22
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Psh.
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Jan 8, 2018 22:33
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Atoc is just so wonderful.
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Jan 8, 2018 22:35
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Not meant as some biting hot take... I have been fairly positive on all things Star Wars (movies, I mean...) since forever, and in saw TLJ last night and was just so... bored. I kept checking my watch. It just felt like “Things Happening: The Movie - Super Long Director’s Cut.” I never engaged with the plot. I never felt for the characters, most of which felt like pompous assholes a lot... I never got any of those “Holy poo poo this is epic!” goosebumps for any action scenes. I’ll peep it again when it hits video but it just felt like wasted time. And I’m not THAT critical of movies.
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Jan 9, 2018 00:04
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euphronius posted:Atoc is just so wonderful. I too love Attack The Of Clones.
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Jan 9, 2018 04:17
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I like how Yoda isn't standing in a puddle of light. E: And that the only light we see on him is being cast from behind him. He's turned his back on the light as he sizes up Dooku to duel him. Shrimp or Shrimps fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Jan 9, 2018 |
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Jan 9, 2018 04:27
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sassassin posted:Qui-Gon doesn't help on Tatooine. He lies, cheats and steals the two things he finds of value there, then goes on his merry way. This is a ridiculous and intentionally contrarian reading, everyone knows it, and I'm frankly not even going to bother with it. J_RBG posted:What I don't understand with this line of thinking is that anything can happen in Star Wars. You're taking a set of circumstances as given, necessary, maybe even good: the fact of their existence is proof of it somehow. That Qui-Gon explicitly says 'we're not here to free the slaves' in a series that begins with a farm-boy bringing about total nuclear disarmament should reveal something to you surely? He doesn't even try! Saying 'well this is just the way it is, how could it possibly change' is a prime example of what Mark Fisher called capitalist realism: people depend on it even when they're talking about, of all things, Star Wars. Luke doesn't bring about total nuclear disarmament. The next movie is all about Luke learning he can't actually take on the entire Empire all by himself, all while the Empire is busy building another Death Star. Luke wins in the end by refusing to fight. Qui-Gon is not in a position to incite a planetary revolution. You can't just go knocking over planets all by yourself. A major point of the prequels is that no one is all powerful, and that if you fail to accept that, and instead decide to use your power to become a unilateral dispenser of justice in the universe, then you become someone like Darth Vader. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 9, 2018 |
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Jan 9, 2018 05:20
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Well he definitely cheats at dice and lies about the origin of the pod to get his engine replacement part and to get his boy.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:37
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Well he definitely cheats at dice and lies about the origin of the pod to get his engine replacement part and to get his boy. Yeah he cheats and lies to swindle a slaver out of his slave. I fail to see what the objection there is even supposed to be. But the implication that he sees Anakin only as some prize to be obtained and doesn't care at all for him as a person is obviously proved false by the way the character and situation are depicted in the film. There's no point in even arguing about that because if that's your "opinion," you're either being intentionally contrarian or are just incredibly bad at watching movies.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:40
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I hate the popular reading in this thread that the Jedi are immoral dopes that got what was coming to them. Or that the Empire and Republic are essentially the same thing.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:44
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The popular reading is that the Jedi were well meaning, but their rigidness and lack of foresight were their undoing. Quigon cheating Watto in the chance cube roll was fantastic. He bullshit the bullshitter.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:48
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The Jedi were individually heroic (well, -ish) but they were doomed trying to bail out a hopelessly corrupt system. Sliding into Empire is what Republics that engage in colonialism and racketeering do. All it takes is a guy like Palpatine to come along and seize the wheel at the right moment. Hell even a total dweeb like Snoke can do it.
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Jan 9, 2018 05:56
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Yaws posted:I hate the popular reading in this thread that the Jedi are immoral dopes that got what was coming to them. Or that the Empire and Republic are essentially the same thing. You need to be careful. The Jedi are largely moralistic dopes - and, while the Republic and Empire are literally the same the Republic is at least formally free. Folks like Cnut just confuse this with actual freedom. (Formal freedom refers to freedom "within the coordinates of the existing power relations, while actual freedom designates the site of intervention which undermines these very coordinates." (Zizek)) On top of this, one of Lucas' big points is that the Jedi are not a monolithic organization. Fundamentalist Jedi clash with secular Jedi. There are doctrinal disputes, fissures.
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Jan 9, 2018 06:52
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wait how is multiculturalism white surpremacy
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Jan 9, 2018 07:46
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Cnut the Great posted:Yeah he cheats and lies to swindle a slaver out of his slave. I fail to see what the objection there is even supposed to be. So you agree that "Qui-Gon lies, cheats and steals" is a statement of fact. That's literally what happens in the movie, you shouldn't discount it because it might be oppositional to your "Qui-Gon is a good guy" reading. As you point out, it doesn't necessarily have to be. But I struggle to find examples of him helping on Tatooine tbh. He repays Anakin's extraordinary kindness with freedom (from Watto) because he comes to believe he must: Anakin is The Chosen One, to whom he was guided by The Force. The actual problems on Tatooine are explicitly ignored by the Jedi, except where Qui-Gon can use them to manipulate and bully people in pursuit of his goals. While he believes his cause Noble and (the greater) Good, ultimately we see his decisions lead only to suffering and ruin.
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Jan 9, 2018 08:26
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Yaws posted:Or that the Empire and Republic are essentially the same thing. They are the same thing in essence. They only change in form, not in essence.
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Jan 9, 2018 10:36
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sassassin posted:So you agree that "Qui-Gon lies, cheats and steals" is a statement of fact. That's literally what happens in the movie, you shouldn't discount it because it might be oppositional to your "Qui-Gon is a good guy" reading. As you point out, it doesn't necessarily have to be. Holy poo poo lol. Yeah, Qui-Gon's a real rear end in a top hat for forcing Watto to gamble his slave away. Poor Watto, losing his slave like that--and through such cruel trickery! quote:But I struggle to find examples of him helping on Tatooine tbh. He repays Anakin's extraordinary kindness with freedom (from Watto) because he comes to believe he must: Anakin is The Chosen One, to whom he was guided by The Force. The actual problems on Tatooine are explicitly ignored by the Jedi, except where Qui-Gon can use them to manipulate and bully people in pursuit of his goals. He frees Anakin, specifically apart from any other slave, yes, because it becomes clear to him that the Force has placed him on Tatooine for this specific purpose, and also--very importantly--because the means to accomplish this specific task miraculously appear before him. It also happens that the circumstances create an opportunity to potentially free Anakin's mother, which he tries to do. He has no reason to try to free Anakin's mother other than that there is an opportunity to do so, and because it's the right thing to do. You ignore this fact for obvious reasons. As for every other slave on the entire planet of Tatooine: What exactly do you expect Qui-Gon, by himself, to do? The movies make it very clear that the Jedi aren't superheroes--not like they're often made out to be. They're mortal men. They can do more than others can, but there's a limit to that. Solving the problems on Tatooine is the collective responsibility of everyone in the Republic, because it's the kind of problem that can only be solved through sustained, collective action. There's probably slavery and injustice going on on all kinds of planets outside the jurisdiction of the Republic, just as there's slavery and injustice going on in all kinds of countries in our world. What are you, personally, doing about all that, sassassin? Why aren't you solving all that in a day? Also, it's kind of odd that you're taking such a self-righteous stance on all this when you seem to be so concerned about Qui-Gon's violation of Watto's property rights re: human beings. BravestOfTheLamps posted:They are the same thing in essence. They only change in form, not in essence. There's a crucial difference here. The Republic could have been saved if only the people in charge of safeguarding its values had been willing to do so. Once it became the Empire, democracy could only be restored through violent revolution.
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Jan 9, 2018 12:15
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Movie was good. Agree with a lot of the plothole nitpicking, as well as the cool stuff. Probably mentioned, but amongst all the other bits and bobs, one aspect right at the end was pretty dumb. so all of the crappy rebel ships are speeding towards all of the massive walkers, who only have one direction to face and are picking them off, one by one. They decide to fall back, but Finn continues forward on his suicide run. Somehow, despite there being less rebels to shoot at, none of the walkers seem to shoot at him at all, even though he seems to be going straight at their megaweapon. It just seemed odd. Then of course, the other chick also manages to get right under them as well, from the side to save him. I guess none of the walkers spotted that either? What were they doing?
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Jan 9, 2018 12:29
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Cnut the Great posted:He frees Anakin, specifically apart from any other slave, yes, because it becomes clear to him that the Force has placed him on Tatooine for this specific purpose, and also--very importantly--because the means to accomplish this specific task miraculously appear before him. It also happens that the circumstances create an opportunity to potentially free Anakin's mother, which he tries to do. He has no reason to try to free Anakin's mother other than that there is an opportunity to do so, and because it's the right thing to do. You ignore this fact for obvious reasons. you mean the part where he manipulates the roll of the dice so that he wins anakin rather than his mother, using his freaky mutant powers
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Jan 9, 2018 12:59
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Cnut the Great posted:Holy poo poo lol. Yeah, Qui-Gon's a real rear end in a top hat for forcing Watto to gamble his slave away. Poor Watto, losing his slave like that--and through such cruel trickery! Well it's not like he's supposed to be surprised by slavery and suddenly do something. It's that he's been actively working to enforce the system that creates slaves the whole time. For instance, by stepping into this bullshit taxation dispute. The last "routine" Jedi mission we see is an "aggressive negotiation" to put a bunch of uppity aliens in their place. Along the way we see that there are much greater injustices in the Galaxy that the Jedi could be looking into, but aren't. That's characterization. Picture, in your mind, a galactic empire that tolerates racism, slavery etc (as much we do in the real world). You are now told that in this universe (unlike our own) is an organization of warrior monks who wield magical powers and laser weapons. Their creed is one of balance and peace between all living things in the universe. Do you feel like "government mandated strike breakers" is the most natural fit for these guys? Or would you agree that what the Jedi are doing in these movies is sort of... incongruous? Also going "well what are YOU doing about it sassassin huh?" is... not good. For starters, sassassin probably isn't a magical monk who operates extra-judicially at the highest level of galactic government. But your stance seems to be that even if he was, no one can stop slavery, and it is extremely political. "I don't know who made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs, but I'm trying to figure out how to get them to Kessel run to the polls!"
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Jan 9, 2018 13:52
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Cnut the Great posted:A major point of the prequels is that no one is all powerful, and that if you fail to accept that, and instead decide to use your power to become a unilateral dispenser of justice in the universe, then you become someone like Darth Vader. If they had decided to really focus on that, the prequels probably would had been pretty good. But the transformation of Darth Vader is so shallow and forced and fake, it's just a wasted opportunity.
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Jan 9, 2018 13:55
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I think the transformation to Darth Vader works pretty well except the killing younglings thing. That I just can't really buy, I don't feel he would be crazy or devoted enough quite yet. He should have been killing adult Jedi on Sheev's orders and the younglings either ignored by the film, order 66'd, or blamed on a fake separatist terrorist attack. Removing that scene I still find all his actions on volcano planet believable. Though I think Padme should have died more directly by his hand.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:05
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I think the transformation to Darth Vader works pretty well except the killing younglings thing. That I just can't really buy, I don't feel he would be crazy or devoted enough quite yet. He should have been killing adult Jedi on Sheev's orders and the younglings either ignored by the film, order 66'd, or blamed on a fake separatist terrorist attack. Removing that scene I still find all his actions on volcano planet believable. Though I think Padme should have died more directly by his hand. Killing the children kind of fits with him crying out in agony and tears as he cuts down the Separatists on Mustafar, though. It's a horrible thing but Anakin does it willingly, proving the depth of his need/love for Padme. He's not devoted to Palpatine or the Empire. He's devoted to doing whatever he thinks he needs to do to save Padme's life, and that means killing all of the Jedi and ending the war. It also proves that it was a slaughter. Vader wasn't striking down equal opponents, he was killing everyone. And links back to what he says about the Tuskens in AOTC. "I killed them. I killed them all. They're dead. Every single one of them. And not just the men, but the women and the children too."
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Jan 9, 2018 14:16
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Cnut the Great posted:Holy poo poo lol. Yeah, Qui-Gon's a real rear end in a top hat for forcing Watto to gamble his slave away. Poor Watto, losing his slave like that--and through such cruel trickery! Who are you arguing against? None of this appears in my posts. You're tilting at windmills.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:16
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Shanty posted:For starters, sassassin probably isn't a magical monk who operates extra-judicially at the highest level of galactic government. You don't know me, rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:22
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Rey is descended from Schmi Skywalker's parents. Her parents were nobody, but Kylo is her third cousin once removed.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:23
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Al Borland Corp. posted:I think the transformation to Darth Vader works pretty well except the killing younglings thing. That I just can't really buy, I don't feel he would be crazy or devoted enough quite yet. He should have been killing adult Jedi on Sheev's orders and the younglings either ignored by the film, order 66'd, or blamed on a fake separatist terrorist attack. Removing that scene I still find all his actions on volcano planet believable. Though I think Padme should have died more directly by his hand. Have you never met someone recently converted to atheism?
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Jan 9, 2018 14:28
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Al Borland Corp. posted:Rey is descended from Schmi Skywalker's parents. Her parents were nobody, but Kylo is her third cousin once removed.
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Jan 9, 2018 14:33
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It's not like Anakin was being a dick on Facebook
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Jan 9, 2018 14:33
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Ravenfood posted:Wouldn't they be 3rd cousins with no removal since they're the same generation? No I think Rey is one more generation down since she could basically be Leia's grandkid
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Jan 9, 2018 14:34
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Al Borland Corp. posted:It's not like Anakin was being a dick on Facebook There's a novel trilogy about Anakin being a right-wing troll on Spacebook under the name "xXxDaCh0sen0ne41BBYxXx".
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Jan 9, 2018 14:57
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