Crawl .21: Stick a Fork In It

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .21: Stick a Fork In It

Teal: Feb 25, 2013; by Nyc_Tattoo

Wtf I wasn't even reading the forums or anyplace and just quickly learned to always eat the purple EVERY time I encountered any; I don't care if it harmed me in the long run, it was one of the most fun things about the game.

# ? Jan 10, 2018 17:51

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 15:37

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

apple posted:

FR: name this fork Dungeon Crawl: Goon Soup

Dungeon Crawl: Crab Stew, please.

# ? Jan 10, 2018 18:02

Internet Kraken: Apr 24, 2010; slightly amused

apple posted:

FR: name this fork Dungeon Crawl: Goon Soup

Dungeon Crawl: Goon Gumbo

# ? Jan 10, 2018 21:31

Falcon2001: Oct 10, 2004; Eat your hamburgers, Apollo.; Pillbug

Man, just saw the Hellcrawl notes, this might get me back into DCSS; depth clocks and food timers always felt so irritating after playing other roguelikes without them.

# ? Jan 10, 2018 21:36

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Falcon2001 posted:

Man, just saw the Hellcrawl notes, this might get me back into DCSS; depth clocks and food timers always felt so irritating after playing other roguelikes without them.

Just a forewarning, there is a depth clock in Hellcrawl: you will start to rot if you spend too long on a level (I think it's around 5k turns though, and there's no backtracking so you really need to be scumming to hit it).

# ? Jan 10, 2018 21:56

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

all three of those concepts own

# ? Jan 10, 2018 22:12

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

apple posted:

FR: name this fork Dungeon Crawl: Goon Soup

Dungeon Crawl: Dead and Goon, obvs.

# ? Jan 10, 2018 22:40

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Dungeon Crawl: Too Many Cooks

# ? Jan 10, 2018 23:31

Unimpressed: Feb 13, 2013

Dungeon Crawl: Screw Tavern

# ? Jan 11, 2018 00:48

Johnny Joestar: Oct 21, 2010; Don't shoot him?

...
...

Internet Kraken posted:

Dungeon Crawl: Goon Gumbo

# ? Jan 11, 2018 01:01

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Okay, that one's pretty good.

# ? Jan 11, 2018 01:11

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

I promised to close the healing evocable survey yesterday, but I forgot while I was trying to debug Singularity. Here's the results:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XWp65k-kmirwddB5wn9-Q9DE012-2GL2At7gddjSt6I/edit?usp=sharing

Looks like it will be flavored as a Harp of Healing, so I'll probably get to implementing it after I've fixed Singularity.

# ? Jan 11, 2018 01:56

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I win! All will bow to me while I play my neat harp!

# ? Jan 11, 2018 04:06

FreeKillB: May 13, 2009

I'm still sticking with Dungeon Crawl: Crab Rangoon.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 04:25

Samog: Dec 13, 2006; At least I'm not an 07.

should starter spellbooks be tweaked? i know a lot of people didn't like it when they were changed a while back

# ? Jan 12, 2018 05:30

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

A lot of the changes where spells being taken out and upgraded with better stuff. I mean, the old crusader handbook was trash, who wants or needs 3 elemental brands in their starting book? So we get infusion, spectral weapon, and song of slaying instead.

Well, I suppose battlesphere would be welcomed back to the Cj book etc, but overall they where good changes.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 05:43

LogicNinja: Jan 21, 2011; ...the blur blurs blurringly across the blurred blur in a blur of blurring blurriness that blurred...

Serephina posted:

A lot of the changes where spells being taken out and upgraded with better stuff. I mean, the old crusader handbook was trash, who wants or needs 3 elemental brands in their starting book? So we get infusion, spectral weapon, and song of slaying instead.

Well, I suppose battlesphere would be welcomed back to the Cj book etc, but overall they where good changes.

I'm STILL super mad about the Cj change. It was a good class that could lean on Battlesphere to carry it through the midgame, and now it's Bad.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 05:49

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

The crusader/skald book change was a good one. The Conjuror one sucks rear end. How does one know which was which?

Perhaps the answer is in the timing. More recent changes are from the current jackasses. Pre-2015 are much safer/better than post-2016.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 05:58

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

code:

Nikola mumbles some strange words.
You hear a mighty clap of thunder!
The lightning arc hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The lightning arc hits Nikola. The lightning arc hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The lightning arc hits Nikola. The lightning arc hits you!
You die...

Sometimes you forget to respect uniques you tend to run over. Also you sometimes forget to drink the hoarded pile of resistance potions you have...

# ? Jan 12, 2018 08:15

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

I love Nikola and he is never to be touched. He is such a fabulous lesson, and every roguelike needs foes like him. Similarly, Ancient Red Dragons in Sil: maaaybe you should just walk away and let him sleep on his hoard, this fucker can one-shot you, you know?

# ? Jan 12, 2018 08:33

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

What are the big changes since 0.18? Not that I understood anything back then either tho, I had like a team of goons guiding my each step to make it out with 3 runes (and that's with what I remember to be fairly ridiculously geared MiFi).

# ? Jan 12, 2018 14:16

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

cinci zoo sniper posted:

What are the big changes since 0.18?

Since 0.18 developers have been working around the clock to give DCSS an almost total funectomy. It was a difficult series of operations as fun had metastasized into many areas of code but as of 0.21 the devs are pretty sure they got it all. The patient is recovered and working as a certified public accountant.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:20

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Araganzar posted:

Since 0.18 developers have been working around the clock to give DCSS an almost total funectomy. It was a difficult series of operations as fun had metastasized into many areas of code but as of 0.21 the devs are pretty sure they got it all. The patient is recovered and working as a certified public accountant.

Sounds pretty good, I don't like fun. What are the major gameplay changes?

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:22

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Sounds pretty good, I don't like fun. What are the major gameplay changes?

Rods no longer exist. Most of the good wands no longer exist. Potions of Cure!Mut have been replaced by potions of !Mut which take away a few mutations and also add a few. A bunch of easier enemies/uniques have been removed. Tomb has been turned into a complete death trap. Food has been simplified. Pakellas has been removed. Total XP available has been heavily reduced. High Elves were removed. Several 'no brainer' spells like R!missile and Haste were removed. Monsters no longer spawn after level generation.

A new god named Wu Jian Council, focused around martial maneuvers, has been added. A new species called Gnolls has been added. A new species of frogs was added.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:30

Zaodai: May 23, 2009; Death before dishonor?
Your terms are accepted.

RMut is gone too, though I don't know if that was pre-.18 or not. Ogres nerfed to not be as good at hitting things with sticks.

[EDIT[ and of course the most important change: Our lord and savior Floodkiller is working on a Goon-fork that adds the fun things back with a vengeance. :getin:

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:33

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

RMut was gone in .17, I'm pretty sure. I'm reasonably sure that's why I point to .16 as the best final version of the game.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:40

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Zore posted:

Rods no longer exist. Most of the good wands no longer exist. Potions of Cure!Mut have been replaced by potions of !Mut which take away a few mutations and also add a few. A bunch of easier enemies/uniques have been removed. Tomb has been turned into a complete death trap. Food has been simplified. Pakellas has been removed. Total XP available has been heavily reduced. High Elves were removed. Several 'no brainer' spells like R!missile and Haste were removed. Monsters no longer spawn after level generation.

A new god named Wu Jian Council, focused around martial maneuvers, has been added. A new species called Gnolls has been added. A new species of frogs was added.

Cheers! Slowly owning myself at low levels as I'm bad and haven't played in 2 years.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 18:59

Araganzar: May 24, 2003; Needs more cowbell!; Fun Shoe

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Sounds pretty good, I don't like fun.

Might I suggest you may want to get involved with the crawl speedrun/high score community?

cinci zoo sniper posted:

What are the major gameplay changes?

The main thing you will notice is the game continues to grow compact, fewer levels to everything, less XP, most spell buffs are gone, no respawns, etc. The game also continues to grow more transparent and gives you more and more useful information about yourself, your actions, and your enemies. Getting used to extended without certain wands is a real adjustment. Other than that I don't think you'll have a markedly different experience than you would in 0.18 unless you play one of the new gods or races.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 19:23

Feldegast42: Oct 29, 2011; COMMENCE THE RITE OF SHITPOSTING

Long time lurker here who's played a few ascensions here and there starting with .10 -- here are major things from the changelogs that could be changed back that haven't been mentioned yet (or seemed controversial at the time at least:)

- Deep Dwarves regaining recharge ability
- Un-nerfing Nemelex
- Adding back in rMut / rCorr
- Adding back in controlled teleport / blink
- Adding back in some of the old unrands that were taken out (dagger of chilly death?)
- Removing Vault rune lock
- Racial armor (orcish / elven / dwarven)

Just food for thought!

# ? Jan 12, 2018 21:56

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

I mentioned removing vault rune lock earlier and despite not caring about anything else you posted I still firmly think it should be done, there's no need to railroad players into making "smart" progression paths. If they want to do something more dangerous, let them.

almost all the removed unrands were actually just garbage, dagger of chilly death being a good example. strictly worse than stuff you can commonly find. adding and buffing them would be an option, though.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 22:33

Prism: Dec 22, 2007; yospos

IronicDongz posted:

I mentioned removing vault rune lock earlier and despite not caring about anything else you posted I still firmly think it should be done, there's no need to railroad players into making "smart" progression paths. If they want to do something more dangerous, let them.

almost all the removed unrands were actually just garbage, dagger of chilly death being a good example. strictly worse than stuff you can commonly find. adding and buffing them would be an option, though.

I would argue that Maxwell's Thermic Engine is already a very good replacement for chilly death and the fire scimitar it shared a pattern with (and this was in the Thermic Engine's patch notes - that it was replacing them and was actually good).

There are probably some decent old unrands that got removed, but I can't think of any offhand.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 22:41

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

I think rMut should stay gone. Either enemies causing mutations is interesting enough that everyone should have to deal with it, or they shouldn't do it. The new amulets are way more interesting.

rMut on a fixedart or something would be cool

# ? Jan 12, 2018 22:53

Dachshundofdoom: Feb 14, 2013; Pillbug

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I think rMut should stay gone. Either enemies causing mutations is interesting enough that everyone should have to deal with it, or they shouldn't do it. The new amulets are way more interesting.

rMut on a fixedart or something would be cool

Yeah, the removal of rMut sounded like a horrible idea when I first heard it, and then I played it and it really didn't make any difference in the difficulty. All it did was make me more cautious around mutators.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 23:02

Jeffrey of YOSPOS: Dec 22, 2005; GET LOSE, YOU CAN'T COMPARE WITH MY POWERS

I love the vault lock and I think it does make you choose a more dangerous path, because you gotta do the bottom floor of the rune vault as like, a distinct midboss level with a limited amount of "safe" experience. Letting the player do the first floors of vaults and then depths before snake:4 makes the latter way less interesting.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 23:11

rchandra: Apr 30, 2013

Yeah, runelock is about making the game harder and more fun, not making the player play optimally - the old "optimal" was to put off runes until the levels were trivial.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 23:40

Half of Dracula: Oct 24, 2008; Perhaps the same could be

I hate to limit any player choice for non-gameplay reasons but the rune lock is also really good flavor-wise to me. Granted, Zot already has an explicit three-rune lock but the idea of these "Vaults" being similarly guarded gives it a difference impression than just being another branch.

# ? Jan 12, 2018 23:45

mdct: Sep 2, 2011; Tingle tingle kooloo limpah.
These are my magic words.
Don't steal them.

My problems with rMut being gone purely stems from how bad malmutate is and how it's used so I have universally had a better time with it eating up an amulet slot than not :shrug:

# ? Jan 13, 2018 00:30

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Fix Malmutate and rMut doesn't matter as much.

It's also already on the alchemist hat, so you could add more fixedarts

# ? Jan 13, 2018 01:28

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Floodkiller's pretty much removing permanent malmutate and maybe even all malmutate as his(?) condition for doing all this work, so talking about rMut might be irrelevant rather quickly.

# ? Jan 13, 2018 02:13

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 15:37

LazyMaybe: Aug 18, 2013; oouagh

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

I love the vault lock and I think it does make you choose a more dangerous path, because you gotta do the bottom floor of the rune vault as like, a distinct midboss level with a limited amount of "safe" experience. Letting the player do the first floors of vaults and then depths before snake:4 makes the latter way less interesting.

I never ever did anything like that

seems like a big waste of time, snake 4 is not that dangerous

# ? Jan 13, 2018 02:23

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