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Milky Moor posted:Well, I mean, it's basically them finding Christ and turning him from a sweet good boy to a child-murderer so that might be intentional? From Child Murderer to Child Murderer: A Star Wars Story
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Jan 10, 2018 15:15
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Anakin was always bad. The Jedi were too blind to see it though. Well yoda and mace did see it but trained him anyway. Killing children is his speciality. He does it it two movies.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:30
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Star Wars didn't really do elseworlds, but I'd love to see a story of what if Qui Gon stayed in the ship and Obi Wan went for the part and Anakin grew up working for Sebulba.
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Jan 10, 2018 15:36
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Shanty posted:I don't know about Marxist, but two hosed up things are happening in this scenario: A) the government is sending scary tough guys to force a settlement in a trade dispute B) the scary tough guys turn out to be the holy monks we thought were guardians of peace and love. The thing is, the US and Canada are in the middle of a trade dispute right noe. Canada claims the US is imposing illegal tariffs on Canadian lumber. The US is claiming the Canadian government is unfairly subsidizing the Canadian lumber industry. This has been going on for almost 40 years, there have been a bunch of lawsuits, WTO rulings, and high level diplomatic summits, and it's a big deal to both countries and their timber industry. What hasn't happened, though, is either country blockading the other and massing troops on the border. This isn't just the Jedi setiling a trade dispute. This is the Trade Federation commiting acts of war against a Republic member world, and that's why the Jedi are ready to be aggressive....to stop it from escalating to all out war and invasion
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Jan 10, 2018 17:20
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Epicurius posted:The thing is, the US and Canada are in the middle of a trade dispute right noe. Canada claims the US is imposing illegal tariffs on Canadian lumber. The US is claiming the Canadian government is unfairly subsidizing the Canadian lumber industry. This has been going on for almost 40 years, there have been a bunch of lawsuits, WTO rulings, and high level diplomatic summits, and it's a big deal to both countries and their timber industry. What hasn't happened, though, is either country blockading the other and massing troops on the border. Unless the Republic has laws favoring the Trade Federation being allowed to do this. Keep in mind, we don't really know what the laws are regarding this in the Republic, and there's not much reason to assume they're the exact same that dictate international law in our world. Naboo and the Trade Federation are both members of the Republic, with representation. So it is entirely possible the Federation got a law passed at some point allowing them to blockade a planet in cases of blah blah blah. Like, I don't really know why this would be legal. But the Trade Federation guy sure seems to think it's legal. The troops, however, are pretty damning. But the Jedi don't know about those until they get there.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:32
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Cnut the Great posted:They're not a bunch of "uppity aliens." They're corporate assholes in charge of a private monopoly who are starving a planet to death because they don't want to pay taxes. How are these guys the sympathetic ones in a Marxist reading? That the Jedi knights are so powerfully integrated into the liberal order that they can barely even see slavery right in front of their own noses makes the movie MORE Marxist, not less. It’s a cogent and consistent critique. Jedi who just snap and foment a droid rebellion or fix all the Republic’s injusices by slaying Palpatine would be far less historically materialist, and so far less believable.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:44
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Ferrinus posted:That the Jedi knights are so powerfully integrated into the liberal order that they can barely even see slavery right in front of their own noses makes the movie MORE Marxist, not less. It’s a cogent and consistent critique. Jedi who just snap and foment a droid rebellion or fix all the Republic’s injusices by slaying Palpatine would be far less historically materialist, and so far less believable. Yeah one existed and Obi wan thought he was lying hahah. I think that was your joke. Sorry for stepping on it.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:50
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thrawn527 posted:Like, I don't really know why this would be legal. But the Trade Federation guy sure seems to think it's legal. I think I remember reading around the time AOTC came out that "Master Sifo-Dyas" who ordered the clone army was supposed to be Sidious in disguise posing as a Jedi master, but then in subsequent years there was all this EU stuff about how Sifo-Dyas was a genuine Jedi who was always worried about the stability of the Republic and was persuaded by his friends Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious (in their civilian guises) that what the Republic really needed was an army. However, I suppose the EU stuff is no longer canonical. What's the official word at the moment?
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Jan 10, 2018 17:52
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euphronius posted:Yeah one existed and Obi wan thought he was lying hahah. I didn’t even think of that. I’ve revealed myself as a fake Star Warser
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Jan 10, 2018 17:53
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think I remember reading around the time AOTC came out that "Master Sifo-Dyas" who ordered the clone army was supposed to be Sidious in disguise posing as a Jedi master, but then in subsequent years there was all this EU stuff about how Sifo-Dyas was a genuine Jedi who was always worried about the stability of the Republic and was persuaded by his friends Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious (in their civilian guises) that what the Republic really needed was an army. There is none. The topic hasn't been approached, that I know of, since the EU purge.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:54
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think I remember reading around the time AOTC came out that "Master Sifo-Dyas" who ordered the clone army was supposed to be Sidious in disguise posing as a Jedi master, but then in subsequent years there was all this EU stuff about how Sifo-Dyas was a genuine Jedi who was always worried about the stability of the Republic and was persuaded by his friends Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious (in their civilian guises) that what the Republic really needed was an army. He's canonically not Sidious in disguise or anything; he's a separate guy who did in fact fear full-scale war and ordered the clone army.
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Jan 10, 2018 17:56
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Fair enough - I'm happy to accept it at face value that he's just a Jedi we'd never seen before but I remember when I was 11 feeling really  to have realised how "Sifo-Dyas" was obviously a fake name used by "Sidious". I think it's fine either way.
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Jan 10, 2018 18:02
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Sifo-Dyas was a real person even in AOTC. Obi-Wan and Yoda talk about him and that he died ten years ago. However, in earlier drafts of the script the army was ordered by "Sido-Dyas", who was just an alias of Sidious.
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Jan 10, 2018 18:10
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thrawn527 posted:. I didn't get the impression the Trade Federation thought it was legal, as much as they thought that they had enough influence in the Republic (and that Sidious had enough power) that they could get away with it
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Jan 10, 2018 18:16
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Lord Hydronium posted:Sifo-Dyas was a real person even in AOTC. Obi-Wan and Yoda talk about him and that he died ten years ago. However, in earlier drafts of the script the army was ordered by "Sido-Dyas", who was just an alias of Sidious. Yeah, at some point during filming Lucas realized Sidous ordering the clone troopers directly until a barely changed name didn't work, so he then did the most half-assed workaround which still really didn't work.
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Jan 10, 2018 19:31
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It's really weird that an obscure planet almost no one knows about is capable of churning out a galaxy-beating army. Why aren't the Kaminoans a superpower then? How the gently caress did Palpatine afford this army? Can you just lay out a couple million credits and get a decent shot at taking over the galaxy?
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Jan 10, 2018 19:40
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porfiria posted:It's really weird that an obscure planet almost no one knows about is capable of churning out a galaxy-beating army. Why aren't the Kaminoans a superpower then? How the gently caress did Palpatine afford this army? Can you just lay out a couple million credits and get a decent shot at taking over the galaxy? Also did the Empire blow them up or something or can anyone with enough spacebux go ahead and pay them to do it again? e: oh you said that lol RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 19:43
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How did the Kaminoans feel about their secret planet that hardly anyone knew about being completely revealed to the entire galaxy after they made the Clone Army of the Republic? Were they cool with it? Was it like a big coming out party? Grand Opening! Discounts on Clones!
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Jan 10, 2018 19:44
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jivjov posted:He's canonically not Sidious in disguise or anything; he's a separate guy who did in fact fear full-scale war and ordered the clone army. I believe that the Clone Wars cartoon established that the person who ordered the army was indeed an imposter(I think it was Dooku though, not Sidious), but that they purposely posed as Sypho-Dyas because they knew that the Jedi would need a plausible explanation in order to feel comfortable enough to actually use the army. Sypho Dyas was publicly known as a guy who would go off the reservation to get things done, and also known as someone that supported the formation of a standing army, and so they used his identity. Dyas was assassinated to cover up the plan and they find his body in an episode of Clone Wars. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 19:46
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porfiria posted:It's really weird that an obscure planet almost no one knows about is capable of churning out a galaxy-beating army. Why aren't the Kaminoans a superpower then?
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Jan 10, 2018 19:51
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Basebf555 posted:I believe that the Clone Wars cartoon established that the person who ordered the army was indeed an imposter(I think it was Dooku though, not Sidious), but that they purposely posed as Sypho-Dyas because they knew that the Jedi would need a plausible explanation in order to feel comfortable enough to actually use the army. Sypho Dyas was publicly known as a guy who would go off the reservation to get things done, and also known as someone that supported the formation of a standing army, and so they used his identity. It's been a while since I watched those episodes personally, but I pulled everything from the Wookieepedia page for Sifo-Dyas. He did order the army in secret, Tyrannus and Sideous bankrolled it and added the inhibitor chips that contained Order 66.
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Jan 10, 2018 19:53
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euphronius posted:Anakin was always bad. The Jedi were too blind to see it though. Well yoda and mace did see it but trained him anyway. Anakin wasn't always bad. He USED to be a normal kid, who loved his mom, had empathy for strangers and hit on pretty girls.
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Jan 10, 2018 19:55
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Mecha Gojira posted:He USED to be a normal kid, who had empathy for strangers and hit on pretty girls. And had a son and killed hundreds of million largely accidentally e: It occurs to me that C-3P0 is technically also a virgin birth
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Jan 10, 2018 19:56
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jivjov posted:It's been a while since I watched those episodes personally, but I pulled everything from the Wookieepedia page for Sifo-Dyas. He did order the army in secret, Tyrannus and Sideous bankrolled it and added the inhibitor chips that contained Order 66. I really want to go back and watch that episode again, because I really am not remembering it that way. I'm almost certain Dooku killed him and then masqueraded as him when he ordered the army.
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Jan 10, 2018 19:56
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porfiria posted:It's really weird that an obscure planet almost no one knows about is capable of churning out a galaxy-beating army. Why aren't the Kaminoans a superpower then? How the gently caress did Palpatine afford this army? Can you just lay out a couple million credits and get a decent shot at taking over the galaxy? I believe Palpatine comes from money to begin with (again, that's probably his old backstory - I've no idea what they're going with currently) and he's probably embezzled a few credits from the Republic treasury or something. Dooku is meant to be fabulously wealthy as well so he probably chipped in.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:03
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Yeah, I always figured Dooku paid for it, since he's the one who hired Jango.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:05
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If I recall correctly, Palpatine basically put the entire clone army on the Jedi Order’s credit card and the Jedi were too confused and embarrassed to do a chargeback.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:06
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Palpatine's entire villainous scheme could've been thwarted if the Jedi had just hired an accountant.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:08
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porfiria posted:It's really weird that an obscure planet almost no one knows about is capable of churning out a galaxy-beating army. Why aren't the Kaminoans a superpower then? How the gently caress did Palpatine afford this army? Can you just lay out a couple million credits and get a decent shot at taking over the galaxy? the kaminoans are capitalists, not conquerors. they don't get their hands dirty, they just provide the slaves
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Jan 10, 2018 20:09
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Wheat Loaf posted:Palpatine's entire villainous scheme could've been thwarted if the Jedi had just hired an accountant. Or at least just purchased a droid to do it.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:12
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porfiria posted:It's really weird that an obscure planet almost no one knows about is capable of churning out a galaxy-beating army. Why aren't the Kaminoans a superpower then? How the gently caress did Palpatine afford this army? Can you just lay out a couple million credits and get a decent shot at taking over the galaxy? And why did the owner of some diner in Coruscant know they were cloners, like it was no big thing? Presumably more people knew, too. One wonders why no one has done this before. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 10, 2018 |
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Jan 10, 2018 20:14
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RBA Starblade posted:e: It occurs to me that C-3P0 is technically also a virgin birth So were Boba Fett and the clones.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:15
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thrawn527 posted:And why did the owner of some diner in Coruscant know they were cloners, like it was no big thing? Presumably more people knew, too. One wonders why no one has done this before. That's a straight mystery/detective trope. It's always the bartender or the diner owner or the shoe shiner that has some critical clue.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:18
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Mecha Gojira posted:Anakin wasn't always bad. He USED to be a normal kid, who loved his mom, had empathy for strangers and hit on pretty girls. Well Qui him takes him directly to the Jedi counsel and their "evil alarms" started going off so I don't know.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:19
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jivjov posted:It's been a while since I watched those episodes personally, but I pulled everything from the Wookieepedia page for Sifo-Dyas. He did order the army in secret, Tyrannus and Sideous bankrolled it and added the inhibitor chips that contained Order 66. The info on Wookieepedia seems contradictory now that I've read both Dyas' entry AND the entry for "The Lost One", which is the episode about the creation of the clone army. The episode synopsis says this, which is in-line with what I remember the implication being at the end: "On Coruscant, the Council deduces that Dooku was responsible for the creation of the clone army. Questioning why their enemy created them an army for them, Yoda explains that this must really be the work of the Dark Lord of the Sith and that all they could do is "play his game". So it implies that Dooku either manipulated Dyas into ordering the army, or he ordered it after Dyas' assassination. I think when you combine the dialogue in the episode with the scenes in AotC, where Obi Wan talks with the Kaminoins and the date of Dyas' death doesn't seem to match up with him ordering the army, the logical conclusion is that it was Dooku masquerading as Dyas.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:22
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jivjov posted:That's a straight mystery/detective trope. It's always the bartender or the diner owner or the shoe shiner that has some critical clue. Well yeah sure, I get that. But this is one big loving clue. Recognizing the dart is one thing. Knowing the planet it comes from is known for making clones has some rather far reaching implications.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:24
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Low class people know a lot and are very effective but ignored by the Jedi is one theme.
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Jan 10, 2018 20:26
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Ferrinus posted:If I recall correctly, Palpatine basically put the entire clone army on the Jedi Order’s credit card and the Jedi were too confused and embarrassed to do a chargeback. Yeah this is what I always thought, too
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Jan 10, 2018 20:31
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euphronius posted:Well Qui him takes him directly to the Jedi counsel and their "evil alarms" started going off so I don't know. To be fair their "evil alarms" search for such insidious feelings as "enjoys titty"
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Jan 10, 2018 20:35
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the jedi live in an ivory tower a spitting distance from the greatest seat of power in the galactic capital city-world they're probably so unimaginably wealthy that the cost of a clone army is a rounding error for them
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Jan 10, 2018 20:37
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