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FlamingLiberal posted:The Walking Dead had like 5 main black characters for part of one season before they started killing them off. For like the first three seasons they seemed to follow a Highlander Rule with prominent black characters. As soon as they introduced a new one you knew the last one was on deathwatch. This was particularly ridiculous in a show set in got dang Atlanta, Georgia.
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Jan 11, 2018 15:50
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Open Source Idiom posted:So I'd argue we'd need to reach a point where more shows pass that bar for queer characters, particularly with regard to having queer leads, and a willingness to show same sex intimacy (particularly between men) with the same casual presentation (and logical frequency) that opposite sex intimacy gets demonstrated. This would then have to continue to occur and continue to occur over a number of years in order to develop a standard. Once this has finally happened, the perceived need for LGBT characters to survive would be eliminated, because of the relative paucity and infrequency of their appearances would have itself been eliminated.
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Jan 11, 2018 16:06
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Open Source Idiom posted:I don't remember this, but perhaps that's because none of them were in particularly prominent roles? I only remember T-Dog, and replacement T-Dog. And Sonequa Martin-Green. None of which were super prominent compared to some of the leads (Glenn being the famous example) and most of which weren't really on the show at the same time. Two of those were dead by the end of the season. Only one is still alive on the show. Granted, they have introduced other black characters since then, but that was the peak
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Jan 11, 2018 16:54
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Pac-Manioc Root posted:For like the first three seasons they seemed to follow a Highlander Rule with prominent black characters. As soon as they introduced a new one you knew the last one was on deathwatch. Agents of Shield is really bad about this too.
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Jan 11, 2018 17:48
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Ojjeorago posted:Agents of Shield is really bad about this too. To be fair, minorities actually outnumber the white members of the cast now (though it wasn't always that way).
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Jan 11, 2018 19:03
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I think the actor for Ash is doing a really good job, and tbh if you’re willing to accept faster than light travel you should be willing to accept hidden body/mind transformation shenanigans.
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Jan 11, 2018 20:32
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Sri.Theo posted:I think the actor for Ash is doing a really good job, and tbh if you’re willing to accept faster than light travel you should be willing to accept hidden body/mind transformation shenanigans. The part that made it incredibly silly for me is that they only checked for the "sleeper agent on top, real personality on the bottom" kind of brainwashing routinely when the other felt like it only took five minutes on the medical bed for a tortured PoW to see what they did to him. What, did they not have enough quarters for it the first time?
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Jan 11, 2018 21:02
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gourdcaptain posted:The part that made it incredibly silly for me is that they only checked for the "sleeper agent on top, real personality on the bottom" kind of brainwashing routinely when the other felt like it only took five minutes on the medical bed for a tortured PoW to see what they did to him. What, did they not have enough quarters for it the first time? I don't give a drat!
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Jan 11, 2018 21:35
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I don't care about the "science" behind the transformation. I care that it was so obvious yet they felt it was a clever reveal down to the little ARG they were playing with casting. I would have a better attitude about Ash/Voq if we would have "found out" during the Mudd episode that he was a sleeper agent because I think they could have had more latitude then to explore his internal conflict. They wouldn't have had to worry about giving away the reveal to the 5 people that hadn't already figured it out.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:01
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Probably unlikely theory that might solve some problems: Lorca actually knew Ash was a sleeper agent and wanted him on board because of reasons pertaining to the mirror universe.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:23
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Wait, so is there a running theory that the Lorca in command of the U.S.S Discovery is actually the Lorca from the Mirror Universe and that all hands on deck died on the Buran including Lorca Prime? 
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Jan 11, 2018 22:53
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Sri.Theo posted:I think the actor for Ash is doing a really good job, and tbh if you’re willing to accept faster than light travel you should be willing to accept hidden body/mind transformation shenanigans. I watched quite a bit of TOS over Christmas, and they really do spend a lot of time in that show telling stories about poo poo that's just flat-out weird. A propulsion source that runs on mushrooms (ho ho ho) and whatever the hell they've done to Tyler fits surprisingly well next to Garth of Izar, the Doomsday Machine, the Kelvans, an entire gaggle of assorted murderous gas clouds, and Zefram Cochrane and his Companion.
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Jan 11, 2018 22:55
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AndyElusive posted:Wait, so is there a running theory that the Lorca in command of the U.S.S Discovery is actually the Lorca from the Mirror Universe and that all hands on deck died on the Buran including Lorca Prime? Well, yes, except the jury's out to what happened to Lorca Prime. He still very well might pop up sometime in future. There's actually a fuckload of hints suggesting this theory: Lorca pushing Stammets for all these jumps, while secretly adding another coordinate, slipping "we're coming home" when the ship was meant to jumo to random-rear end federation base (rather than Earth or something), being slightly-too-knowlegdeable about the existence of parallel universes (both when luring Stammets with the promise of great discovery when unveiling he kept the jump records and quckly figuring out a "running theory" of landing in parallel universe). On a more speculative front, he's in no rush to return to prime universe (even making sure the good doc won't get Stammets online by chance), glad to "assimilate for recon" and his semi-obsessive insistence on keeping Michael safe might suggest some alt-universe masquerade plans rather than just kindred dirty cop spirits. Assuming he is mirror Lorca manipulating the Discovery crew to launch a second coup or whatever, him pushing Michael to hunker down on her loyalty to him, might strengthen the idea their trip to Shenzou is a greater plan in motion. Also being a violent, paranoic rear end in a top hat who sleeps with his gun just in case. PS. This is this series second great idea, after the funky mushroom warp. PPS. If you really want to stretch it, there is a slight chance his decorative Tribble and Gorn skeleton are not just mindless fanservice, but conscious anachronisms.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:21
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I guess that would prove that not every mirror captain is as dumb as mirror Kirk
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Jan 11, 2018 23:28
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It would explain Lorca just randomly grabbing Burnham and installing her on his ship.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:29
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Lichtenstein posted:PPS. If you really want to stretch it, there is a slight chance his decorative Tribble and Gorn skeleton are not just mindless fanservice, but conscious anachronisms. Oh yeah, I guess there was a Gorn killed on the USS Defiant in "In a Mirror Darkly." Could be the same one's skeleton. Or something.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:30
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That's cool as gently caress and I hope all of it ends up panning out to be true.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:33
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And if you want to get really tinfoil about it, the STD photoshoot for the variety from I think October had the plaque say I.S.S. Discovery. Though I don't expect the writers on that show to be clever enough to do such bullshit deliberately. Oh, I also forgot - remember the episode where he bedded his old flame? Lorca was both hesitant to talk about their shared past (and eager to change subject) and she didn't recognize his scars. And his willingness to throw her to Klingons. And, given all this, him staring at his reflection in the mirror afterwards might have been not just a tired cliche.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:52
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Lichtenstein posted:There's actually a fuckload of hints suggesting this theory: Lorca pushing Stammets for all these jumps, while secretly adding another coordinate, slipping "we're coming home" when the ship was meant to jumo to random-rear end federation base (rather than Earth or something), being slightly-too-knowlegdeable about the existence of parallel universes (both when luring Stammets with the promise of great discovery when unveiling he kept the jump records and quckly figuring out a "running theory" of landing in parallel universe).  
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Jan 11, 2018 23:52
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he also goes "no time to check the computer's coordinates for that last jump! we have to do something else!"
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Jan 11, 2018 23:56
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Lichtenstein posted:And if you want to get really tinfoil about it, the STD photoshoot for the variety from I think October I'd wager the shoot simply took place while they were recording this latest string of episodes where the ship is masquerading as ISS Discovery.
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Jan 11, 2018 23:57
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Lichtenstein posted:Oh, I also forgot - remember the episode where he bedded his old flame? Lorca was both hesitant to talk about their shared past (and eager to change subject) and she didn't recognize his scars. And his willingness to throw her to Klingons.  This is the coolest format for a Star Trek show to have. I never would have thought there could be  levels of mysterious and crazy poo poo going on like this.
AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 00:16
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What bugs me about Ash-Voq is that they allude to actually surgery to make him look human. That'd imply that there's still Klingon DNA everywhere. Which somehow goes unnoticed. If they managed to convert the DNA, I hope they have a good reason for this silly torture part then. Because DNA therapy and poo poo.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:39
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AndyElusive posted:Wait, so is there a running theory that the Lorca in command of the U.S.S Discovery is actually the Lorca from the Mirror Universe and that all hands on deck died on the Buran including Lorca Prime? I dig this idea and all its little hints. But I can't quite imagine a way to reveal it that wouldn't make viewers cringe. I guess we'll know soon. With Lorca being the show's most expensive actor it's unlikely he'll be around for many seasons, though it would be cool. So there's probably some gimmick behind his identity either way.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:50
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Lorca is mirror emperor.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:54
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Combat Pretzel posted:What bugs me about Ash-Voq is that they allude to actually surgery to make him look human. That'd imply that there's still Klingon DNA everywhere. Which somehow goes unnoticed. If they managed to convert the DNA, I hope they have a good reason for this silly torture part then. Because DNA therapy and poo poo. Klingons have to do everything the most painful way.
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Jan 12, 2018 00:56
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lorca bringing his own, short reign as emperor to an end by rescuing ashvoq, who goes on to form the klingon caliphate in the mirror universe still needs nana visitor in a leather jumpsuit or something, but this pretty good trek. better than the first half of the season.
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Jan 12, 2018 01:02
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Myself I'd guess Georgiou, because the show is Michael-centric and that would kind of explain her being included in promo materials to a ridiculous degree, given the fact she was offed in the pilot.
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Jan 12, 2018 01:08
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Shibawanko posted:Lorca is mirror emperor. I agree with the theories that Georgieu is the Empress/Emperor, and Michael is going to have to kill her in some battle by the end of this season
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Jan 12, 2018 01:16
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jfood posted:lorca bringing his own, short reign as emperor to an end by rescuing ashvoq, who goes on to form the klingon caliphate in the mirror universe I think the hints are a little too pointed at Georgieau as the Empress, though I do like this. I'd split the difference on the prediction, though, I see freedom fighter Lorca rescues Voq in order to unify the mirror Klingons against the Terrans.
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Jan 12, 2018 01:22
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The empress of the Terran Empire was a series of clones of Hoshi until 2277, so it should still be her.
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Jan 12, 2018 01:31
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I feel like Burnham would immediately look up Georgieau to see what she was up to.
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Jan 12, 2018 02:11
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Of course it's going to be Georgeau, there's no way they'd pass up the silly melodrama of having to confront her evil version. Also put money on Michael delivering some kind of anguished apology for her actions in the prime universe before killing the mirror Georgieau. It'll be very traumatic.
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Jan 12, 2018 02:20
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E:double post
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Jan 12, 2018 02:20
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Man even if the activation prayer had been foolproof L'Rell didn't have much of a plan to get into place to use it. Blind luck really.
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Jan 12, 2018 03:29
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L’Rell and Voq have been idiots since their first appearance
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Jan 12, 2018 03:46
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I like the added idea that Lorca behaving decently towards the USS Discovery crew isn't an act. They dropped in that line about how people in the Terran Empire spend their time scared of being stabbed in the back and put on an act in order to appear stronger than they are. Not having to worry about his crew shivving him in his sleep is probably a nice holiday for him.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:25
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I saw a YouTube video which pointed out how in the TOS mirror universe episode they had small triangular handheld agonisers, and that when Lorca bangs the hot Admiral she touches a triangular scar on his back which is about the same size.
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Jan 12, 2018 04:45
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Parkingtigers posted:I saw a YouTube video which pointed out how in the TOS mirror universe episode they had small triangular handheld agonisers, and that when Lorca bangs the hot Admiral she touches a triangular scar on his back which is about the same size. That is such a deep pull that it's pretty improbable.
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Jan 12, 2018 07:53
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Assuming Lorca is from the mirror universe, do you guys think Commander Landry was too? I seem to remember Lorca saying something like, "We've been serving together for a long time." It would also explain a lot about her personality and why she was so aggressively dumb with the tardigrade too.
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Jan 12, 2018 08:05
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