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I use my planets for generating influence, unity and borders first and foremost. With a very low population having a science nexus for research on top of various research stations works fairly well, and frontier outposts secure important bits of space.
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Jan 12, 2018 21:48
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Baronjutter posted:Planets are to be 100% specialized for minerals, habitats are for research, and your dyson sphere should take care of energy with any additional needs coming from solar collectors on your habitats. That's something I would expect my dumb sector AI to do The only true way is making up elaborate Rube Goldberg like networks of energy, research and mineral production on all your planets and habitats, while trying to cram as much unique buildings between everything. My end goal is basically to make it look as natural as possible. You should go "that crazy mess can only be caused by a true living being, no computer is that disorganized". Also at the point I'm building a dyson sphere that additional energy is about less than 5% of my total energy production -if I was really unlucky with resource generation, that is. 
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Jan 12, 2018 21:50
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I colonize as much as possible because I don't know how else to expand my borders + fleet power + stuff without building too many outposts and losing all my influence You want to go Fanatic Authoritarian/Spiritualist, take Cutthroat Politics, get Galactic Ambition, and eventually get a Chosen One leader, and them having Deep Connections is ideal. You can have like 8~ outposts that way. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 21:56
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I always prioritize location, then size. Multi planet systems depend on what the planets are like but I'll bite the bullet on small planets if I need the ship production. I'll eventually take every planet once I am limited by fleet cap and my research goals are met (battleships and sometimes megastructures). Then I take every planet. I don't specialize unless I'm in a truly bad position, except for my habs as power plants or research stations. A) it's tedious as gently caress and B) it is unnatural and ruins my nerdy roleplaying 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 21:57
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Exactly I hate it when something my faster than light, galaxy spanning hyper empire of psychic genetically evolved plant men has something unnatural like specialized resource planets
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Jan 12, 2018 22:08
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:EDIT: I really did!  I'd love for the endgame crisis to be shaped as a galatic crusade and treasure hunt. Stop the Great Khan before he/she discovers the parts needed to complete their dreadnought and make the threat even worse!
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Jan 12, 2018 22:18
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gowb posted:Exactly I hate it when something my faster than light, galaxy spanning hyper empire of psychic genetically evolved plant men has something unnatural like specialized resource planets My empires value nature and don't want to global warm every planet sir It's obviously the tedious aspect that I don't want to gently caress with. Throw the bitch in a sector after i drop uniques and that's it. Vvv agreed. Location, location, location 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 22:19
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wiegieman posted:I subscribe to the policy that multi planet systems are good, because planets are the best way to get minerals and more planets means more star bases to build ships with. this is me. multi planet systems count as 1 vs your core system cap. I keep as many systems colonized as I can afford to develop at once and early on will prioritize based mostly on geographic location and then which one will be immediately most productive (like it has a good +3 energy tile or something to stick the landing site on)
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Jan 12, 2018 22:24
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Libluini posted:This means if you just colonize every tiny rock you come across, you can sometimes get planets too small to put down enough unity and research buildings to even maintain the status quo. Your empire becomes a bloated mess. This is true for unity. It is not really true for research, because you only have to put down your 10% of base cost (for the planet) over the course of however many months you were going to spend on the research anyway. For a concrete example using the same example from the wiki: An empire is researching Armored Torpedoes (1400 base cost). It owns 3 colonized planets and has a total of 23 pops. Research = 1400 x (1 + 0.1 x (3 - 1) + 0.01 x (23 - 10)) = 1862. In their example, the empire has 28.8 tech research per month (materialist, with rocketry expertise, for a 20% bonus), meaning this will take 65 months to research. So, if we increase to a 4th planet (ignoring the pop because they can be wherever): Research = 1400 x (1 + 0.1 x (4 - 1) + 0.01 x (23 - 10)) = 2002. So the extra cost is 140 (which makes sense; 10% of the base cost), and we know that you have around 65 months to make this up without slowing the actual tech acquisition down. How much extra do you need? Just over 2 technology research. Practically any planet can put that together.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:34
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Every planet gets an Energy Grid, Paradise Dome(or equivalent) and Mineral Processing Planet. I know I SHOULD specialise beyond that, probably, but I can never bring myself to do it. I always follow the tiles, generally. Even though I run mods that allow me to grow the size of my own worlds, meaning every world is eventually worthwhile, I still can't bring myself to do it. And then I never know what to do exactly with blank tiles at times.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:40
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Also i cant be the only one who immediately thought VAYGR upon hearing this whole Great Khan thing. Vaygr shipset mod when Also Mark Oliver militarist voice when
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Jan 12, 2018 22:43
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http://www.moddb.com/mods/homeworld-conquest Somebody's going further than a shipset, though it's early days yet.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:51
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I read that for a moment as John Oliver, and imagined the AI giving me crap for not knowing that isn't the X'kali Star Empire, THIS is the X'kali Star Empire, and that to make up for my lack of astropolitical knowledge, it is going to read me sad news facts for an hour.
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Jan 12, 2018 22:53
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Psycho Landlord posted:Vaygr shipset mod when Very kind of. http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1219847230   Obviously not the Vaygr ships, but it's got the the aesthetic of Homeworld down pretty well and the general dagger shape of the Vaygr. turn off the TV fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 12, 2018 |
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Jan 12, 2018 23:03
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turn off the TV posted:Like some kind of dyson sphere Presumably it doesn't require the massive tech burden (or massive mineral cost + build time) of a Dyson Sphere though.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:24
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turn off the TV posted:Very kind of. I actually hadn't seen this yet and it's cool as hell so thanks for introducing me to it. It's real similar to some of the early Vaygr concept art too, so you're pretty spot on with the comparison.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:27
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I would absolutely love a ship DLC mimicking the look of Rob Cunningham/Aaron Kambeitz's art. They struck such a good balance between sort of an industrial utilitarianism and style.  This is largely why I struggle to use any ship set besides Reptillian.
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Jan 12, 2018 23:56
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An early 80s Sci-Fi/Chris Foss/Peter Elson/etc style shipset would be pretty awesome, yeah.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:00
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I colonize as much as possible because I don't know how else to expand my borders + fleet power + stuff without building too many outposts and losing all my influence Vassalize all your neighbors and they'll turn the pleasing shade of your border color without impacting your unity or research
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Jan 13, 2018 00:02
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Galaga Galaxian posted:An early 80s Sci-Fi/Chris Foss/Peter Elson/etc style shipset would be pretty awesome, yeah. I actually just found out today that Chris Foss was brought on for the MCU Guardians of the Galaxy, and I'm glad that Marvel more or less doubled down on his style for Thor: Ragnarok.   Everything is so bright, colorful and stripy.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:15
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I colonize as much as possible because I don't know how else to expand my borders + fleet power + stuff without building too many outposts and losing all my influence Small planets don't expand your borders that much anyway. No need to claim as much space as possible unless you're going for some specific important system; if someone else colonizes stuff out from under you, you can just vassalize or tributary them.
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Jan 13, 2018 00:26
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ulmont posted:This is true for unity. It is not really true for research, because you only have to put down your 10% of base cost (for the planet) over the course of however many months you were going to spend on the research anyway. Which can therefore be a prohibitively large amount for a tech focused empire. If Armoured Torpedoes takes you six months instead you all of a sudden need to plonk down north of 20 research down on this planet, so you're spending a bunch of minerals and energy (on pop and building upkeep) on maintaining the status quo on everything but the fleet cap. ulmont posted:(ignoring the pop because they can be wherever) NB: you can't ignore pop, because the choice isn't "a size 25 planet or a size 15 planet and a size 10 planet" it's "a size 25 planet or a size 25 planet and (15 + 10)".
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Jan 13, 2018 01:02
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Yeah, a Homeworld-esque shipset would be great, but what I'm truly longing for is a cathedrals-in-space Gothic shipset. Just look at this beautiful beast:
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Jan 13, 2018 01:18
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honkey rear end mofos in here, pfunk/afrofuturism shipset or bust
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Jan 13, 2018 01:23
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Groetgaffel posted:Yeah, a Homeworld-esque shipset would be great, but what I'm truly longing for is a cathedrals-in-space Gothic shipset. Just look at this beautiful beast: Oh like one of the Warhammer 40k ship sets? http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=864541681&searchtext=
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Jan 13, 2018 01:27
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I think I've settled on my first 2.0 play through will be as a Ziltoid themed empire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65gsQucAsfE
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Jan 13, 2018 01:43
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Which can therefore be a prohibitively large amount for a tech focused empire. If Armoured Torpedoes takes you six months instead you all of a sudden need to plonk down north of 20 research down on this planet, so you're spending a bunch of minerals and energy (on pop and building upkeep) on maintaining the status quo on everything but the fleet cap. 1) I did the math for armored torpedoes. Just over 2 research to maintain parity as you move from 3 to 4 planets and wouldn't change (being based on base tech cost) if it was 19 to 20. 2) you can totally ignore pop. Max pop can always provide more useful stuff.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:01
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 cherryh and apocalypse dorn when?
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Jan 13, 2018 02:14
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turn off the TV posted:Oh like one of the Warhammer 40k ship sets? Also, that mod has the battleship model be a Lunar-class, which is just a cruiser. 
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Jan 13, 2018 02:14
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Yeah, those are some interesting choices for filling out roles.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:22
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ulmont posted:1) I did the math for armored torpedoes. Just over 2 research to maintain parity as you move from 3 to 4 planets and wouldn't change (being based on base tech cost) if it was 19 to 20.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:29
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Azuth0667 posted:
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Jan 13, 2018 02:34
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Nessus posted:Yeah I'm wondering too, I have a loose hankering to try out something but if Cherryh is dropping in, like, a week, I'd wait. If it's more like "two months" I'd do it. It's not close, it's like at least months away unless wiz has been playing some sort of long con on us.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:36
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While certainly not indicative of what will happen in the future, Utopia was announced in early February of last year and released in early May. I'd say we have a good couple of months ahead before Armageddon drops; enjoy the game for what it is now. It's still pretty fun.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:39
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i heard 2.0 is coming out a week after christmas
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Jan 13, 2018 02:41
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ulmont posted:1) I did the math for armored torpedoes. Just over 2 research to maintain parity as you move from 3 to 4 planets and wouldn't change (being based on base tech cost) if it was 19 to 20. You did the maths for armoured torpedoes taking 67 months. That's artificially slow unless your only goal is to ever break even on tech speed when you expand. Most people prefer to get techs a bit faster than fewer than two a decade, which is something I pointed out that you chose to ignore for some reason. ulmont posted:2) you can totally ignore pop. Max pop can always provide more useful stuff. You cannot, because a large number of those pops are working science tiles while costing minerals and energy which then need to be supplied by more pops (assuming the space resources are fully exploited, albeit ignoring the extra resources the extra territory could give you). These are things you need to take into account when going "yeah it's always worth it" because it's not.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:53
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Splicer posted:You're forgetting space based research and empire unique buildings. If your space based + homeworld generate 110 science combined then, assuming your homeworld is a fully populated size 20, each fully populated 10 tile planet needs to generate 20 science not to be science negative and each fully populated 25 tile planet needs to generate 35. Unity's less of an issue since space based Unity isn't a thing so your "core Unity generation" is more fixed Once you have level 2 or 3 labs you can get about 10 science from a lab on a +2 tile, so it's basically 2 labs on a size 10, or 4 on a size 25. And something like Alien Pets with a science ship assisting research can probably hit 20 by itself. More planets will slow your research down while they grow pops, but it's pretty easy to make them increase your overall research speed.
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Jan 13, 2018 02:54
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binge crotching posted:Once you have level 2 or 3 labs you can get about 10 science from a lab on a +2 tile That's assuming you only ever want to break even. Once you start getting tech fast then it keeps on increasing in cost every time if you want to speed up research. As I said above, if you're getting armoured torpedoes in under a year (to use the above example) rather than north of five years, you need around 20 of each research on a planet to break even just from the planet itself let alone the pops. MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jan 13, 2018 |
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Jan 13, 2018 02:57
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Galaga Galaxian posted:An early 80s Sci-Fi/Chris Foss/Peter Elson/etc style shipset would be pretty awesome, yeah. Wiz I would totally buy this.
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Jan 13, 2018 03:17
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You did the maths for armoured torpedoes taking 67 months. That's artificially slow unless your only goal is to ever break even on tech speed when you expand. Most people prefer to get techs a bit faster than fewer than two a decade, which is something I pointed out that you chose to ignore for some reason. I was very explicit about where I got the numbers from - specifically from the stellaris wiki page in the tech cost example. Here goes with live examples from live stellaris games. 1) Most recent game. Admittedly completely endgame and was delayed for 50 years or so waiting on the crisis to show up. Based on the endgame point, I'll look at the only non-repeatable tech (I think, anyway, it doesn't have a number) in play here. High Density Munitions* - Base cost 6000, +1360% for having 137 planets, +2241% for having 2251 pops, final cost is 222060. Takes 38 months to research with 3998 technology research per month and a +50% modifier from scientists, ascension perks, etc (so an effective 5997 per month). Now, we add one more planet: Base cost 6000, +1370% for having 138 planets, +2251% for having 2261** pops, final cost is now 223260, an increase of 1200 (unsurprisingly, 20% of base cost from an increase of 10% for 1 planet and 10% for 10 pops). With 38 months for this tech, to break even we have to add on this planet...just over 31 technology research per month. Man, that seems like a lot. Even with the +50% modifier, that's still 20.6 technology research we need to add per month to make this planet break even. Except...222060 (original cost) at an effective 5997 takes 37.03 months, which gets rounded to 38. 223260 (updated cost) at an effective 5997 takes 37.23 months, which gets rounded to 38 as well. So this planet and the next 3 planets are free. *My translation of Munición de gran densidad, so possibly slightly inaccurate. **Per your pop discussion below, just assuming 10 extra pops. I'll revisit this in example 2 if needed. 2) Starting game. Geothermic Fracking. Base cost 360, +0% for having 1 planet, +0% for having 8 pops. Takes 52 months to research with 6.02 technology research per month and a +17% modifier from scientists (effective 7.04 per month). Now, we add one more planet: Base cost 360, +10% for having 2 planets, +8% for having 18 pops**, final cost is now 424.8, an increase of 64.8. With 52 months for this tech, to break even we have to add on this planet...just over 1 technology research per month. So 2 labs and that not only covers this planet but most of the next one. MrL_JaKiri posted:You cannot, because a large number of those pops are working science tiles No, they aren't. See above. Splicer posted:You're forgetting space based research and empire unique buildings. If your space based + homeworld generate 110 science combined then, assuming your homeworld is a fully populated size 20, each fully populated 10 tile planet needs to generate 20 science not to be science negative and each fully populated 25 tile planet needs to generate 35. Unity's less of an issue since space based Unity isn't a thing so your "core Unity generation" is more fixed Can you post some numbers from your games? I show start and endgame above from mine, but what are you seeing?
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Jan 13, 2018 03:31
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