|
Nobody EVER has cameras in the brig in Star Trek Cf. the DS9 episode where Worf and Bashir and Garak are in Dominion prison and manage to cook up an escape plan that wouldn’t have worked for a second if the all-powerful quadrant spanning police state that is imprisoning them had just bugged the room.
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 22:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 19:57 |
|
|
sunnyboy posted:
Efforts of fairness - yes. Pretty much any iteration of the Federation other then the one in Deep Space 9 would lose pretty much any war badly - it's the contradiction that's part of the heart of the series. Warships from paradise, "we're an enlightened egalitarian society and you will die when I order you to". It's kind of an atypical utopia in many respects - a product of an age that was anything but. You can do interesting stuff with that -the scene where Micheal argues her way out of prison in the pilot comes to mind - but it can also be very dumb.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 22:58
|
|
|
TV and movie jails never have any kind of surveillance. But yea, I hate that kind of stuff, and I'm just generally sour on Secret Klingon storyline because it relies too much on people hiding poo poo for the sake of hiding poo poo. And thinking more, Stamet's is probably, when activating the Spore Drive, seeing or event connecting with all his possible selves. When he comes out of the trance or whatever you call it, he's lost that connection but shadows of it stays with him, so he's not cognitive of what he experienced. The Waterbear was able to do this without being all spacey because it evolved to be connected to all its possible selves, or maybe it exists everywhere at the same time? Anyways, its all metaphysical and poo poo. What this makes me think of and is probably influencing my thinking is that it's a lot like how Space Folding is done in Dune. The Guild Navigators guide the ship by using the spice to gain prescience that enables them to see all possible outcomes of the space fold (which is actually done by Holtzman generators) and pick the safest path.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 23:09
|
|
|
Excuse me, but Odo had cameras in his jail. Hrumph you humanoids and your shoddy jail monitoring.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 23:26
|
|
|
One thing that doesn't support Lorca being from the Mirrorverse was how he didn't know that he wasn't captain of the ISS Discovery. Unless if he was expecting Lorca-Prime to be Captain for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 23:39
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:One thing that doesn't support Lorca being from the Mirrorverse was how he didn't know that he wasn't captain of the ISS Discovery. I mean, if he's a mirror doppelganger, he is under cover so that's not really reliable information.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 23:49
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:One thing that doesn't support Lorca being from the Mirrorverse was how he didn't know that he wasn't captain of the ISS Discovery. If he didn’t want to give it away, he would have to fake ignorance in any case. This goes for basically everything he does in this episode, he must be playing the long game because his actions in this episode are insanely foolhardy if he has experience of how mirror humans operate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2018 23:55
|
|
|
As for why the klingon in jail had poor security, don't forget that the guy who went to visit was... head of security. He could just temp disarm anything he needed to or dismiss underlings. I put too much thought into it, I know.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:11
|
|
|
skasion posted:If he didn’t want to give it away, he would have to fake ignorance in any case. This goes for basically everything he does in this episode, he must be playing the long game because his actions in this episode are insanely foolhardy if he has experience of how mirror humans operate. that reminds me - although i like this show a great deal, the contrast between the torture in something like chain of command 2 and this is loving awful. torture as something to let your rugged protagonists endure stoically and thus demonstrate how badass they are - ash is basically supposed to walk it off (lorca has already done so) and the fact he gets ptsd from loving torture is portrayed as a weakness. what does he care about the agony booth - he's much too cool to be impacted by such trifles!
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:12
|
|
|
NarkyBark posted:As for why the klingon in jail had poor security, don't forget that the guy who went to visit was... head of security. He could just temp disarm anything he needed to or dismiss underlings. Nah, this is the kind of thing a better show would use to make the world of the show feel more real by tossing in a quick interaction between Tyler and his subordinates.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 00:18
|
|
|
I realise it IS star trek. I also realize that it's mostly written by rote now: specifically the show has been around so long that you only have to show an item or suggest an alien and you already know where the plot's going etc. etc. But it still has more than it's share of really sloppy writing. A good writer would have cameras in the brigs and use them to advantage instead of just going along with "we're all really, really stupid here". Sadly, the whole trope of "our jails don't have cameras because... plot contrivance" is pretty much a staple of SF. It still grates though. I mean, trek is based on "us" but utopia, but every second episode seems to rely on utopia corrupted. Given how often utopia utterly fails in trek, you'd think by now even the dumbest captain/admiral/etc. would mandate cameras everywhere recording everything. Put it another way: they had better log records in the Finny episode of TOS. Even used "but who could alter a log without being caught" as a key plot point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
sunnyboy posted:I realise it IS star trek. I also realize that it's mostly written by rote now: specifically the show has been around so long that you only have to show an item or suggest an alien and you already know where the plot's going etc. etc. Doesn't TOS happen after this show in the timeline? I'd hope they'd develop better log records. In any case it's a space show and we're now in a different universe, I know it's a goon thing to complain about realism in entertainment, but jesus. fe: Also the fact you know about log records and whoever Finny is from a show made 50 years ago you've obviously had enough time to make your own head-canon, sorry it's not what you thought.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 02:44
|
|
|
Barreft posted:Doesn't TOS happen after this show in the timeline? I'd hope they'd develop better log records. no, no, sorry. trek never had jesus.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:12
|
|
|
sunnyboy posted:no, no, sorry. trek never had jesus. Ding dong ur opinion is wrong
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:21
|
|
|
Heavy handed, as gently caress, and super loose writing is what has always made Trek, Trek. Do you want a modern day Trek or do you want a modern day sci-fi show set in the Trek universe? We got a modern day Trek.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:23
|
|
|
I'm going to take the controversial opinion and say I enjoy watching this show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:26
|
|
|
I will say I've only watched DS9 and random TNG episodes, so I'm not a scholar of the scientific works of Star Trek lore
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:29
|
|
|
sunnyboy posted:no, no, sorry. trek never had jesus. The Children of the Son would like a word with you about that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 03:38
|
|
|
Barreft posted:I'm going to take the controversial opinion and say I enjoy watching this show.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:48
|
|
|
eyebeem posted:Heavy handed, as gently caress, and super loose writing is what has always made Trek, Trek. We got to the latter after having a few episodes of the former and I'm glad of it
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 04:51
|
|
|
My hypothesis on Lorca's ulterior motives: Lorca's orders from the mirror universe's Section 31 are to take out Georgiou, the emperor. He needs Burnham to get to Georgiou, who is the emperor, so that he can win the war... which is the one happening in the mirror universe because that's where he's from, and now that he was able to find his way back to his home universe thanks to Stamets' research into the spore drive, he can finally accomplish his mission. If this show were better™, my idea about Lorca's ulterior motives would've been something less sinister, like Lorca's orders from Section 31 were to figure out what happened to the Defiant, which had only "recently" gone missing at this point in this setting, scuttle the ship if it has fallen into enemy hands, and bring its crew back home, which is why they arranged for him to command the ship that has the super top secret spore drive so that he could find those openings to the mirror universe. Lorca "miraculously survived" via an escape pod in the Normal Universe and crossed over to do a thing in the other one. Burnham "miraculously survived" via an escape pod in the Mirror Universe and crossed over to do a thing in the other one. I was really hoping that the RedLetterMedia idea of the mirror universe being the good one that we're all accustomed to was actually going to happen. :c This show makes me sad and I wish Orville wasn't better, but it is. STD isn't that bad, though. Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 06:15
|
|
|
You don't need to spoiler tag speculation I agree that he is from the MU, but there is no point for there to be a Section 31 in the MU. The Terran Empire already does what it wants without restrictions. I could get onboard the idea that he needs Burnham to get into the room with the Emperor (Georgieu), who he will then try and overthrow maybe?
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 06:27
|
|
|
A story about a mirror universe guy learning to accept prime universe federation values would be cool but the story isn't really set up to do that well
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 06:30
|
|
|
I just hope Lorca isn't gone at the end of the season, whatever they do. I know he probably will be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 06:36
|
|
|
I hope Section 31 doesn't show up in this show at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 07:20
|
|
|
Just to mix things up I would love a security chief who is like "Okay I may be compromised, I am unfit for duty at this time, and you must post guards at locations x, y, z with strict orders to deny me access/not let me be unsupervised with the prisoner/not let me bullshit them or attempt to pull rank." Ah well, I'll always have Garibaldi.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 07:54
|
|
|
Echo Chamber posted:I hope Section 31 doesn't show up in this show at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 08:12
|
|
|
Mirror Section 31 is Section 13.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 08:18
|
|
|
Section 13, a secret organization dedicated to feeding needy children and preventing assassinations.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 08:20
|
|
|
Grand Fromage posted:Section 13, a secret organization dedicated to feeding needy children and preventing assassinations. Not a single corrupt Admiral amongst them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 08:22
|
|
|
Love Stole the Day posted:I was really hoping that the RedLetterMedia idea of the mirror universe being the good one that we're all accustomed to was actually going to happen. :c That's really stupid, but it being from RLM, i'm not surprised. The "its really in the Mirror Universe!" was a theory cooked up by people who couldn't stand STD isn't all stuffy super professionals who listen to Mozart. It would not do anything to enhance the story or anything outside of a "OMG" moment on the show, and I hope we're past that era of TV where everyone is just waiting for the next big bomb to drop.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 09:13
|
|
|
Retardog posted:Remember, this is the same universe where the computer doesn’t automatically notify anyone if someone disappears from the ship I honestly got pretty pissed off at the doctor's Slim Jimming, then started sulking aloud at the show's going along with it like it all made sense, and how ship's sensors TOTALLY wouldn't register some sort of an alert at a crew member's lifesigns suddenly going critical while in sickbay. Because they tooooootally wouldn't be programmed to do something like that, nossiree.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 09:14
|
|
|
Lorca letting Tyler be the chief of security is out of character. He keeps Burnham on a much tighter leash and she's assistant dogsbody. Remember how he conveniently knew about all her sneaking earlier in the season? Now he conveniently doesn't know anything about Tyler's behavior. It's a very modern TV sort of thing where characters are omniscient when they need to impress the audience and clueless when certain plot beats need to happen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 09:29
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Lorca letting Tyler be the chief of security is out of character. He keeps Burnham on a much tighter leash and she's assistant dogsbody. Remember how he conveniently knew about all her sneaking earlier in the season? Now he conveniently doesn't know anything about Tyler's behavior. It's a very modern TV sort of thing where characters are omniscient when they need to impress the audience and clueless when certain plot beats need to happen. Tyler killed the Doctor minutes before Lorca, Tyler et. all beamed off the Discovery. When would Lorca have found the time to learn anything? He was in the middle of leaving.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 09:33
|
|
|
I'm finding it kinda funny people are complaining about "uhh wouldn't the ship or someone else figure out the doc got killed?" when in the same episode the guy who did the murder stated "I'm the chief of security, I know all the codes" which is there purely to explain that whatever monitoring that would have been on the doctor was easily disabled because he's the chief of security and can turn off the drat security.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 11:56
|
|
|
Yeah the better question is why did they make Clem Fandango the chief of security after rescuing him from being tortured... No one on that ship was more qualified than a dude with potential PTSD? No! Bad writing. Bad writers. Go sit in the corner. By the way, I'm hate watching the poo poo out of this show. I want to like it because it's Trek, but God drat, the writers must think that viewers just don't give a gently caress about sensible plots made up of cause and effect. That must explain why they instead go for random character idiocy. An Ounce of Gold fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jan 13, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 13:49
|
|
|
But no one knows about his PTSD but him. It's a good thing none of the other characters have witnessed it multiple times, and have discussed it with him at length. Especially not like, a logical unemotional character, the sort that would say, be raised by vulcans and who definitely would put the safety of the ship over their own burning loins.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 14:12
|
|
|
The framing and editing of his scenes really bother me. I get that they're supposed to show his broken state of mind but it all comes across as either a flashback or a hallucination.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 14:22
|
|
|
Love it when people complain about this show not being proper Trek and all the complaints are about things old Trek did too. TNG and DS9 never had security cameras either. Trouble with Tribbles had a Klingon disguised as a human. Sisko did tons of war crimes in DS9. TNG had the lamest parties.
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 14:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 19:57 |
|
|
Gonz posted:Not a single corrupt Admiral amongst them. Corrupt admirals are peak Star Trek, I really hope we get one in Discovery
|
|
#
?
Jan 13, 2018 14:30
|
|
